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Dr_Manhattan
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13 Jan 2021, 2:38 am

It's hard for me to imagine a time more beautiful than when I thought I had found the girl with whom I'd grow old. Of course, that's what I thought. But, as time goes on, the painful realization that love is infinitely more complicated than a teenager with raging hormones could've ever comprehended before turning 18 years old sets in. Humans are naturally self interested and have their own agendas. When you're in high school, you're still trying to find out who you are and, more importantly, who you want to be. When you're at the height of this dopamine high, it can be devastating to bring everything between you and your love interest to an abrupt, screeching halt. It's tragically anticlimactic. All that affection, time spent together, and planning for an imagined future together...gone. At least, this was the case for me. Some dumb kid who thought it would work like the movies and you'd live happily ever after. But my ex seemed more interested in getting as much attention as she could get via various means. She even showed up at school and proudly displayed wounds she had given herself. When confronted about it, she just shrugged it off as "how she was". Needless to say I was mortified. I went to school everyday, worried that one day I'd walk in and learn that whatever pain she'd tried to convince everyone she had overwhelmed her and she took her own life. It's possible she really was in distress, but the fact that she thought it was cute and/or funny to show self-harm marks was the nail in the coffin. I was so disillusioned, looking back on those times. This was the girl I thought I'd marry one day. Regardless of the bad, what good I saw from her was so beautiful I thought it would be the undoing of my very existence. The purity she emanated in those solitary moments was so great I felt unworthy of being in her presence. What I mean to say is that what I desire is the feeling I felt in those moments. Like the world ceased its movement in time and space. There was no one else, and there was no time. Just us. But what's most difficult for these kinds of things is letting go. Accepting the reality that nothing like that will happen again with the same person. Lightning never strikes the same place twice (it's an expression, I know lightning can strike the same place twice). She moved on and, from what I can tell, is married now. The difficulty of letting go is fear of not having anything like that again.



techstepgenr8tion
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13 Jan 2021, 6:29 am

You've made some very good observations and I think they'll help you going forward if you can sort out how to scaffold your life with them in a healthy manner.

Dr_Manhattan wrote:
The purity she emanated in those solitary moments was so great I felt unworthy of being in her presence. What I mean to say is that what I desire is the feeling I felt in those moments. Like the world ceased its movement in time and space. There was no one else, and there was no time. Just us. But what's most difficult for these kinds of things is letting go. Accepting the reality that nothing like that will happen again with the same person. Lightning never strikes the same place twice (it's an expression, I know lightning can strike the same place twice). She moved on and, from what I can tell, is married now. The difficulty of letting go is fear of not having anything like that again.


Speaking in the most general terms - not about said experiences you're mentioning but an overall observation about these sorts of moments - this is one of those things consciousness does to us when we haven't figured out that to be in that moment is to be the one who cares more and by being the one who cares more you become the one-down and the other person the one-up in whatever social relationship it is, might not even be someone you're dating but what you're feeling comes through and establishes that. I think by the time I hit my early 20's I went from having loved those experiences to associating them with pain, saying 'Oh... I'm doing that thing again...' when it would start up, and I'd nip it in the bud as a sign that I was off my game.

The only thing I can really think of that would help - again in the broadest senses, us a a society - is to try pushing some of the weight that we've put on romantic love (eros) back to Platonic love of friends and finding the sublime again in art, music, poetry, philosophy, etc. because they're reliable places to find it and to the degree that they need to be rotated (new music, new films, etc.) you aren't trying to wring it all out of one person over any stretch of time with the later. Romance, OTOH, even for those who provisionally were born with all of the right genes to make the cut and swim at the top of the curve in terms of desirability for natural selection reasons, are trying to make a go of something that's ultimately duplicitous and by it's nature it's a concatenation of excesses which your body and mind get used to, more is needed to fuel the same rush, and as you said - lightning never strikes the same place twice. That sort of insecurity is a great way to sell people things and convince them that they're not good enough without the next latest and greatest gadget, IMHO this is probably why something so obviously incorrect about reality and the human condition is as persistent as it is - it's really lucrative for those who can cash in on it.


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13 Jan 2021, 6:56 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
You've made some very good observations and I think they'll help you going forward if you can sort out how to scaffold your life with them in a healthy manner.

Dr_Manhattan wrote:
The purity she emanated in those solitary moments was so great I felt unworthy of being in her presence. What I mean to say is that what I desire is the feeling I felt in those moments. Like the world ceased its movement in time and space. There was no one else, and there was no time. Just us. But what's most difficult for these kinds of things is letting go. Accepting the reality that nothing like that will happen again with the same person. Lightning never strikes the same place twice (it's an expression, I know lightning can strike the same place twice). She moved on and, from what I can tell, is married now. The difficulty of letting go is fear of not having anything like that again.


Speaking in the most general terms - not about said experiences you're mentioning but an overall observation about these sorts of moments - this is one of those things consciousness does to us when we haven't figured out that to be in that moment is to be the one who cares more and by being the one who cares more you become the one-down and the other person the one-up in whatever social relationship it is, might not even be someone you're dating but what you're feeling comes through and establishes that. I think by the time I hit my early 20's I went from having loved those experiences to associating them with pain, saying 'Oh... I'm doing that thing again...' when it would start up, and I'd nip it in the bud as a sign that I was off my game.

The only thing I can really think of that would help - again in the broadest senses, us a a society - is to try pushing some of the weight that we've put on romantic love (eros) back to Platonic love of friends and finding the sublime again in art, music, poetry, philosophy, etc. because they're reliable places to find it and to the degree that they need to be rotated (new music, new films, etc.) you aren't trying to wring it all out of one person over any stretch of time with the later. Romance, OTOH, even for those who provisionally were born with all of the right genes to make the cut and swim at the top of the curve in terms of desirability for natural selection reasons, are trying to make a go of something that's ultimately duplicitous and by it's nature it's a concatenation of excesses which your body and mind get used to, more is needed to fuel the same rush, and as you said - lightning never strikes the same place twice. That sort of insecurity is a great way to sell people things and convince them that they're not good enough without the next latest and greatest gadget, IMHO this is probably why something so obviously incorrect about reality and the human condition is as persistent as it is - it's really lucrative for those who can cash in on it.

There are some really good points in your post. Like my psych says, use that good high and energy you get from the relationship to build your own life. That is indeed hard to do for an individual with a special interest in the person and relationships. sometimes I get the feeling that it will never be able to compete with the experience of being with the SO and to keep up with life going better as the good times go better in the relationship is probably impossible unless you start to bungee jump and extreme things. This balance even though necessary is probably going to be a bit out of balance anyway, but it's important to happen in its imperfect self, but the natural pull might still orbit towards the relationship.

There is this other balance concept of giving, you have to even the score and stop giving, take a step back when you aren't receiving. Which is even harder to do. After inputting so much effort to detach and just turn away, it's like constant torture. then involve yourself again if the person has returned to you. Like breaking up and getting back together endlessly. It's quite a tricky thing to stop 'caring', as you say.


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13 Jan 2021, 7:52 am

All of those moments I did not have in the same way until my mid 30's when I started to date and I became suicidal after it ended. I am over it now, but it took a fair few years to reach that point where she faded into history.


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13 Jan 2021, 7:54 am

Rexi wrote:
There is this other balance concept of giving, you have to even the score and stop giving, take a step back when you aren't receiving. Which is even harder to do. After inputting so much effort to detach and just turn away, it's like constant torture. then involve yourself again if the person has returned to you. Like breaking up and getting back together endlessly. It's quite a tricky thing to stop 'caring', as you say.

That actually brings up a whole other can of worms that gets opened with dating that doesn't seem to get opened with friendships - it's the ledger obsession (and I was a bad example of this when I started dating). If it's not impossible to be in love with someone it's at least damaging of that relationship when you're perpetually nail-biting over whose done more or less for the other, whether the person whose done too little needs to be let go or the person whose done too much has given away power and their deservedness of respect is lower, and then worse when people take that ledger obsession and tighten it to the point where any imbalance is a fiasco or where a one or two percent variance from 60% me, 40% you, whatever the balance has been, it seems impossible for that to not be a kind of hell that you'd rather either be single or find someone with zero interest in that than have to deal with.


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13 Jan 2021, 5:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Rexi wrote:
There is this other balance concept of giving, you have to even the score and stop giving, take a step back when you aren't receiving. Which is even harder to do. After inputting so much effort to detach and just turn away, it's like constant torture. then involve yourself again if the person has returned to you. Like breaking up and getting back together endlessly. It's quite a tricky thing to stop 'caring', as you say.

That actually brings up a whole other can of worms that gets opened with dating that doesn't seem to get opened with friendships - it's the ledger obsession (and I was a bad example of this when I started dating). If it's not impossible to be in love with someone it's at least damaging of that relationship when you're perpetually nail-biting over whose done more or less for the other, whether the person whose done too little needs to be let go or the person whose done too much has given away power and their deservedness of respect is lower, and then worse when people take that ledger obsession and tighten it to the point where any imbalance is a fiasco or where a one or two percent variance from 60% me, 40% you, whatever the balance has been, it seems impossible for that to not be a kind of hell that you'd rather either be single or find someone with zero interest in that than have to deal with.

Yes, yes! But you forget something

Image


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13 Jan 2021, 5:59 pm

Rexi wrote:
Yes, yes! But you forget something

Image


Lol - 93 to you as well!

Image


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13 Jan 2021, 11:33 pm

I had to let go, twice. I had to let go of someone I went to college with and I had to let go of a WP member.


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13 Jan 2021, 11:52 pm

It is common for early romantic relationships to end, sometimes very abruptly. This happens to both Aspies and NTs alike. I had my heart broken many times. But I never gave up and I just moved on. Perhaps a little wiser from the experience. Eventually I married and have been married over 45 years. In looking back over my life, the woman I married was the right decision.


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Dr_Manhattan
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14 Jan 2021, 1:06 am

Rexi wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Rexi wrote:
There is this other balance concept of giving, you have to even the score and stop giving, take a step back when you aren't receiving. Which is even harder to do. After inputting so much effort to detach and just turn away, it's like constant torture. then involve yourself again if the person has returned to you. Like breaking up and getting back together endlessly. It's quite a tricky thing to stop 'caring', as you say.

That actually brings up a whole other can of worms that gets opened with dating that doesn't seem to get opened with friendships - it's the ledger obsession (and I was a bad example of this when I started dating). If it's not impossible to be in love with someone it's at least damaging of that relationship when you're perpetually nail-biting over whose done more or less for the other, whether the person whose done too little needs to be let go or the person whose done too much has given away power and their deservedness of respect is lower, and then worse when people take that ledger obsession and tighten it to the point where any imbalance is a fiasco or where a one or two percent variance from 60% me, 40% you, whatever the balance has been, it seems impossible for that to not be a kind of hell that you'd rather either be single or find someone with zero interest in that than have to deal with.

Yes, yes! But you forget something

Image

Image



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14 Jan 2021, 8:35 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Rexi wrote:
Yes, yes! But you forget something

Image


Lol - 93 to you as well!

Image

Every man and every woman is a hex star, glows like fired up gold in the sky of the night.


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14 Jan 2021, 8:36 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I had to let go, twice. I had to let go of someone I went to college with and I had to let go of a WP member.

But you still rock sexy pants.

Edit: visually your shorts + socks look like knee ripped full pants.


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14 Jan 2021, 8:55 pm

Dr_Manhattan wrote:
Rexi wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Rexi wrote:
There is this other balance concept of giving, you have to even the score and stop giving, take a step back when you aren't receiving. Which is even harder to do. After inputting so much effort to detach and just turn away, it's like constant torture. then involve yourself again if the person has returned to you. Like breaking up and getting back together endlessly. It's quite a tricky thing to stop 'caring', as you say.

That actually brings up a whole other can of worms that gets opened with dating that doesn't seem to get opened with friendships - it's the ledger obsession (and I was a bad example of this when I started dating). If it's not impossible to be in love with someone it's at least damaging of that relationship when you're perpetually nail-biting over whose done more or less for the other, whether the person whose done too little needs to be let go or the person whose done too much has given away power and their deservedness of respect is lower, and then worse when people take that ledger obsession and tighten it to the point where any imbalance is a fiasco or where a one or two percent variance from 60% me, 40% you, whatever the balance has been, it seems impossible for that to not be a kind of hell that you'd rather either be single or find someone with zero interest in that than have to deal with.

Yes, yes! But you forget something

Image

Image

It seems like your The What! image has queefed.

Allow me to guess your choice.

Image


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15 Jan 2021, 5:56 am

Dr_Manhattan wrote:
It's hard for me to imagine a time more beautiful than when I thought I had found the girl with whom I'd grow old. Of course, that's what I thought. But, as time goes on, the painful realization that love is infinitely more complicated than a teenager with raging hormones could've ever comprehended before turning 18 years old sets in. Humans are naturally self interested and have their own agendas. When you're in high school, you're still trying to find out who you are and, more importantly, who you want to be. When you're at the height of this dopamine high, it can be devastating to bring everything between you and your love interest to an abrupt, screeching halt. It's tragically anticlimactic. All that affection, time spent together, and planning for an imagined future together...gone. At least, this was the case for me. Some dumb kid who thought it would work like the movies and you'd live happily ever after. But my ex seemed more interested in getting as much attention as she could get via various means. She even showed up at school and proudly displayed wounds she had given herself. When confronted about it, she just shrugged it off as "how she was". Needless to say I was mortified. I went to school everyday, worried that one day I'd walk in and learn that whatever pain she'd tried to convince everyone she had overwhelmed her and she took her own life. It's possible she really was in distress, but the fact that she thought it was cute and/or funny to show self-harm marks was the nail in the coffin. I was so disillusioned, looking back on those times. This was the girl I thought I'd marry one day. Regardless of the bad, what good I saw from her was so beautiful I thought it would be the undoing of my very existence. The purity she emanated in those solitary moments was so great I felt unworthy of being in her presence. What I mean to say is that what I desire is the feeling I felt in those moments. Like the world ceased its movement in time and space. There was no one else, and there was no time. Just us. But what's most difficult for these kinds of things is letting go. Accepting the reality that nothing like that will happen again with the same person. Lightning never strikes the same place twice (it's an expression, I know lightning can strike the same place twice). She moved on and, from what I can tell, is married now. The difficulty of letting go is fear of not having anything like that again.


I, like many others, have discovered we are put onto this earth to be disappointed.
Be assured, you are definitely not the only one. 8)


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15 Jan 2021, 5:58 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I had to let go, twice. I had to let go of someone I went to college with and I had to let go of a WP member.


What are you saying?
I am still here! :heart:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."

Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


THERE WILL BE NO COUP IN AMERICA!


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15 Jan 2021, 6:03 am

Rexi wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Rexi wrote:
There is this other balance concept of giving, you have to even the score and stop giving, take a step back when you aren't receiving. Which is even harder to do. After inputting so much effort to detach and just turn away, it's like constant torture. then involve yourself again if the person has returned to you. Like breaking up and getting back together endlessly. It's quite a tricky thing to stop 'caring', as you say.

That actually brings up a whole other can of worms that gets opened with dating that doesn't seem to get opened with friendships - it's the ledger obsession (and I was a bad example of this when I started dating). If it's not impossible to be in love with someone it's at least damaging of that relationship when you're perpetually nail-biting over whose done more or less for the other, whether the person whose done too little needs to be let go or the person whose done too much has given away power and their deservedness of respect is lower, and then worse when people take that ledger obsession and tighten it to the point where any imbalance is a fiasco or where a one or two percent variance from 60% me, 40% you, whatever the balance has been, it seems impossible for that to not be a kind of hell that you'd rather either be single or find someone with zero interest in that than have to deal with.

Yes, yes! But you forget something

Image


:mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."

Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


THERE WILL BE NO COUP IN AMERICA!