Women Are Rarely Direct With You About Not Being Interested

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browneyedgirlslowingdown
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06 May 2021, 8:28 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
Hi, I don't mean to imply that men are like this, I mean that people are like this in general for lots of things, sex, money, attention, intimacy, and so on. They are just not direct. It's to me not about sex, it's about the person. I have experienced this and because I am so honest and direct it is really painful when someone is pushing you into something through manipulation regardless of what it is. I also don't like drinking, dishonest too is a major turn-off overtly or covertly. I realize that in general I more direct than most people anyway, so I might prefer this more than other people. My BF I think appreciates it. If I am being honest I think everyone that loves me does and may love me for this reason.


Oh yah people do seem to be great manipulators although they sometimes succeed in deceiving also themselves along with their prey. It is the way to success as a liar, to actually believe in the lie, and at the point it has a certain amount of truth in it. The line gets blurry...

I have also noticed that women work in a metaphorical wedding ring into conversation early on. "Wedding ring" is just symbolic shorthand for "I am taken," not necessarily legal marriage. For instance the above, "My BF I think appreciates it." I often find that women I am talking to will mention their husband pretty early in any conversation with me. What are the odds, you think, that this is a coincidence? :lol:


Haha, I don't think I mentioned my bf specifically for you, but it could be something unconscious! I might do this though generally with men because I don't want to give the impression of romantic interest? I haven't noticed it, but I will monitor myself and see. I do know that women mention their partners to me a lot ..and I think it has to do with feeling special or superior because they have a partner...at least in female to female relations. Back to manipulation..it is the hardest thing for me to read. So basically any indirect or passive action or statement I directly ask about for clarity. I never try to guess or read someone's mind. If they can't say it plain must not be important to them is my stance. ...of course, I'm speaking about adults...kids can't always articulate needs/wants and so of course I attend to them.


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Mona Pereth
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06 May 2021, 10:07 am

Muse933277 wrote:
Here's another good example of how women absolutely SUCK at being direct. Sometimes when you ask a woman out, either she'll try to invite her friends along or if you two are in the same social group, she'll try to invite the whole group. Once again, this is a sign she's not interested and I'll explain why down below. You see, by a woman's logic (which is good logic in this case), if multiple people are going out together, then it's not really a date and it's just a friendly hangout. An actual "date" is usually just two people and and woman who's not interested in a guy will oftentimes try to avoid being alone with him (unless it's a part of her job). So if a guy who she's not interested in tries to ask her out, she'll try to turn it into a group outing because that's her way of friendzoning his ass.

I can't speak for all women, but, in my case, this would NOT have been a sign of lack of (at least potential) interest. I have always strongly preferred to meet people first in the context of a group activity before seeing them for an individual date. This was partly for safety, and partly because it always took me a while to decide whether I was interested in someone for a romantic relationship or not. Furthermore, one of my main criteria for being interested in someone, in the first place, was how enthusiastically they embraced other aspects of my world besides just (what little they knew of) me.

You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 06 May 2021, 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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06 May 2021, 10:22 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
... You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.

Granted, I do not know you or your preferences, but this is the kind of behavior I have observed in others.  I have also personally experienced it in the role of either man.


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06 May 2021, 10:23 am

Women?! No, it's our entire society that's judging everyone five seconds after meeting them. Stop blame shifting.


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06 May 2021, 10:31 am

cberg wrote:
Women?!  No, it's our entire society that's judging everyone five seconds after meeting them.  Stop blame shifting.
Yep!  It is not only women who make "snap" judgements based on appearances, men do it too, especially incels and PUAs who rate women at first sight on a scale of 1 to 10.


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06 May 2021, 10:52 am

Fnord wrote:
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.

Granted, I do not know you or your preferences, but this is the kind of behavior I have observed in others.  I have also personally experienced it in the role of either man.
Even though we're total opposites politically, I'll give you this. Women rate men not only on looks, but on social dominance too. If a good-looking man knows how to "work the room", rather than just blend into the background, women will like him.


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06 May 2021, 11:16 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.

Granted, I do not know you or your preferences, but this is the kind of behavior I have observed in others.  I have also personally experienced it in the role of either man.
Even though we're total opposites politically, I'll give you this. Women rate men not only on looks, but on social dominance too. If a good-looking man knows how to "work the room", rather than just blend into the background, women will like him.
Politics has little or nothing to do with objective observations of human social behavior; but I do appreciate your agreement on the rest.  Thank you.


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06 May 2021, 11:22 am

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
... You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.

I never was much of a party-goer, but I guess that's beside the point and that other group activities could be substituted for "party"?

Fnord wrote:
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.

Here it's more a case that the man who talked to me has given me an opportunity to get to know him, at least a little bit, whereas the silent man has not.

If I were subsequently to encounter the silent man in another context where he wasn't so silent anymore, I wouldn't necessarily reject him because he was silent at the first event. It would just take longer for me to get to know the previously-silent man before deciding whether I was interested in him or not.

Of course, if the silent man never talks to me, then I would never decide that I am interested. But this would not have been because I made a quick decision to reject him, but because any possibility of a decision has been indefinitely delayed.

Note: The above also assumes that I am not the leader/facilitator/hostess of the event(s) in question. If I were the leader/facilitator/hostess, then I would actually make a point of seeking out and talking to the relatively silent people, and perhaps introducing them to other relatively silent people, to ensure that they feel included in the event.


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06 May 2021, 11:34 am

browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
Haha, I don't think I mentioned my bf specifically for you, but it could be something unconscious! I might do this though generally with men because I don't want to give the impression of romantic interest? I haven't noticed it, but I will monitor myself and see. I do know that women mention their partners to me a lot ..and I think it has to do with feeling special or superior because they have a partner...at least in female to female relations. Back to manipulation..it is the hardest thing for me to read. So basically any indirect or passive action or statement I directly ask about for clarity. I never try to guess or read someone's mind. If they can't say it plain must not be important to them is my stance. ...of course, I'm speaking about adults...kids can't always articulate needs/wants and so of course I attend to them.


Another example: my massage therapist. About the third comment out of her mouth was "my husband..." and in that case, I am 100% certain it was conscious, because in her biz, frisky business or getting asked out are occupational hazards. Note, I am not criticizing the practice, I highly approve of it! I guess I just wish I didn't hear it so often, as what I'd prefer to hear is, "gee whiz, I have nothing to this weekend and no one to do with it."

As for reading the manipulation - indirect and passive actions - you do not need to rely upon body language, facial or tonal cues, common areas where Aspies falter. What I do is just ask myself, why is this person acting this way to me? What do I have they want? Or, what is it about me they dislike or fear? That's a good habit to get into whether you are Aspy or NT because nobody reads other people right all the time.


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06 May 2021, 2:05 pm

browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
For one thing, she opened up a bottle of liquor 5 minutes into the date. Anyone that knows of me on this forum knows how I feel about drinking. That, to me, was a deal-breaker.


[...]
I also don't like drinking


To the various folks here who feel that they are the only ones in the world who don't drink: Behold, two more non-drinkers, here on WP.


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06 May 2021, 2:19 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.

Granted, I do not know you or your preferences, but this is the kind of behavior I have observed in others.  I have also personally experienced it in the role of either man.
Even though we're total opposites politically, I'll give you this. Women rate men not only on looks, but on social dominance too. If a good-looking man knows how to "work the room", rather than just blend into the background, women will like him.



These are social facts, one would be living under a rock if one doesn’t know them already in our age.


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06 May 2021, 2:32 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
... You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
I never was much of a party-goer, but I guess that's beside the point and that other group activities could be substituted for "party"?
Fnord wrote:
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.
Here it's more a case that the man who talked to me has given me an opportunity to get to know him, at least a little bit, whereas the silent man has not.

If I were subsequently to encounter the silent man in another context where he wasn't so silent anymore, I wouldn't necessarily reject him because he was silent at the first event. It would just take longer for me to get to know the previously-silent man before deciding whether I was interested in him or not.

Of course, if the silent man never talks to me, then I would never decide that I am interested. But this would not have been because I made a quick decision to reject him, but because any possibility of a decision has been indefinitely delayed.

Note: The above also assumes that I am not the leader/facilitator/hostess of the event(s) in question. If I were the leader/facilitator/hostess, then I would actually make a point of seeking out and talking to the relatively silent people, and perhaps introducing them to other relatively silent people, to ensure that they feel included in the event.
You will not say that I am wrong, because that would be a lie.

You will not admit that I am right, because you do not like me.

So you change the conditions to fit another narrative with which you will agree.

:lol: Funny!


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06 May 2021, 2:49 pm

I find when I as a woman direct about not being interested a guy can get aggressive.

So I am often not direct.


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06 May 2021, 2:55 pm

CollegeGirlAnon wrote:
I find when I as a woman direct about not being interested a guy can get aggressive.  So I am often not direct.
It is sad that toxic males still dominate every aspect of human behavior, including how women must act to keep safe.


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06 May 2021, 3:17 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
I can't speak for all women, but, in my case, this would NOT have been a sign of lack of (at least potential) interest. I have always strongly preferred to meet people first in the context of a group activity before seeing them for an individual date. This was partly for safety, and partly because it always took me a while to decide whether I was interested in someone for a romantic relationship or not. Furthermore, one of my main criteria for being interested in someone, in the first place, was how enthusiastically they embraced other aspects of my world besides just (what little they knew of) me.


Kind of. I think many autistic women actually operate this way, which of course have implications for autistic men looking for compatible partners.

Mona Pereth wrote:
You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.


At least few autistic women will operate this way, and for people desiring compatible partners, this kind of stuff is not very relevant since even if autistic men could train themselves to become more attractive to this group, it would still not work out in the long run.



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06 May 2021, 3:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
... You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.

Granted, I do not know you or your preferences, but this is the kind of behavior I have observed in others.  I have also personally experienced it in the role of either man.


I find party-goers and minglers highly boring and non-interesting, and so my take on this is that if a woman makes those kind of choices, she is not for me. I would go for the one sitting in a corner all by herselves giving me some glances from time to time. I'd hope to meet her again so I can get to know more about her. Actually initiating an conversion with her would kill all the fun of a proper courtship.