Women Are Rarely Direct With You About Not Being Interested

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cberg
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06 May 2021, 3:49 pm

I think a majority of posters in these threads have been blaming all guys for being somehow less than adequate rather than acknowledging the way a few violent idiots spoiled things for everyone.


I mean at least this thread doesn't border on eugenics too much but there's always someone who comes out of the woodwork suggesting that guys with ASD are genetic dead ends who can do no more than disgust women in general. It's really not healthy to keep leaning into discussions that pidgeonhole certain types of people.

:shrug: We basically never have a thread about common ground for everyone. It doesn't happen. Maybe a positive tone is too much to ask for but at least talk about something constructive sometime.

I categorically reject this pessimistic trend.


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06 May 2021, 3:57 pm

cberg wrote:
... I categorically reject this pessimistic trend.
Does this mean you will not post in this thread any more?


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kraftiekortie
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06 May 2021, 4:08 pm

I've actually been fascinated by "silent" girl/woman at parties/gatherings.

But I was never successful trying to get to know them a little bit--primarily because it seems as if they didn't want to talk to anybody. Or maybe they didn't want to talk to me? I don't know.

I used to have this crush on a very shy girl when I was in high school. She didn't care for me at all, for some reason. She had the same name as one of the Pigeon Sisters on "The Odd Couple."

But I'm surprised that there is no "allure" attached to a man who stays in the background, and just observes.



cberg
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06 May 2021, 4:11 pm

Fnord wrote:
cberg wrote:
... I categorically reject this pessimistic trend.
Does this mean you will not post in this thread any more?


It means what I said.


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Gentleman Argentum
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06 May 2021, 6:39 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
For one thing, she opened up a bottle of liquor 5 minutes into the date. Anyone that knows of me on this forum knows how I feel about drinking. That, to me, was a deal-breaker.


[...]
I also don't like drinking


To the various folks here who feel that they are the only ones in the world who don't drink: Behold, two more non-drinkers, here on WP.


And see, I actually dumped a nice lady over drinking :afro:

Aspies above all should never, ever drink -- because... because... well, say you have only a Celeron for your social cpu. And let's say, you decide to run the Celeron at half-speed (by drinking). Well, the poor little Celeron social cpu just can't keep up with all the social instructions firing at it all the time... result: freeze, glitch, system slowdown...problems! :coffee:

Just my minority opinion and I'm sticking to it :geek:

I'm also experimenting with minority (seldom-seen) smilies

Mona is nice :D


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Gentleman Argentum
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06 May 2021, 6:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
... You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
I never was much of a party-goer, but I guess that's beside the point and that other group activities could be substituted for "party"?
Fnord wrote:
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.


Here it's more a case that the man who talked to me has given me an opportunity to get to know him, at least a little bit, whereas the silent man has not.

If I were subsequently to encounter the silent man in another context where he wasn't so silent anymore, I wouldn't necessarily reject him because he was silent at the first event. It would just take longer for me to get to know the previously-silent man before deciding whether I was interested in him or not.

Of course, if the silent man never talks to me, then I would never decide that I am interested. But this would not have been because I made a quick decision to reject him, but because any possibility of a decision has been indefinitely delayed.

Note: The above also assumes that I am not the leader/facilitator/hostess of the event(s) in question. If I were the leader/facilitator/hostess, then I would actually make a point of seeking out and talking to the relatively silent people, and perhaps introducing them to other relatively silent people, to ensure that they feel included in the event.


You will not say that I am wrong, because that would be a lie.

You will not admit that I am right, because you do not like me.

So you change the conditions to fit another narrative with which you will agree.

:lol: Funny!


Hm... I don't know about the likes and dislikes on this board, I don't follow you peeps enough, and my social cpu is a Celeron.

However I defy you to ever find a daughter of Eve since time began that will admit to being wrong :lol:

Or for that matter a son of Adam :lol:

Liking and not liking may have nothing to do with it

The only one that got satisfying Yes/No answers to his binary questions in all of recorded history was Socrates, and it's likely Plato was embellishing to make his dear teacher look good


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Gentleman Argentum
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06 May 2021, 6:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've actually been fascinated by "silent" girl/woman at parties/gatherings.

But I was never successful trying to get to know them a little bit--primarily because it seems as if they didn't want to talk to anybody. Or maybe they didn't want to talk to me? I don't know.

I used to have this crush on a very shy girl when I was in high school. She didn't care for me at all, for some reason. She had the same name as one of the Pigeon Sisters on "The Odd Couple."

But I'm surprised that there is no "allure" attached to a man who stays in the background, and just observes.


Yes! I prefer shy girls too. In fact, shyness and introversion in a woman boosts my confidence a lot. I feel like I have a real chance (whether I do or not). Also, I feel like we have something important in common. I just couldn't keep up (and wouldn't want to keep up) with a real chatty hyper extrovert that wants to go hug everybody all over the place... that would be exhausting... when I just wanna chill :lol:


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Aspie1
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06 May 2021, 7:29 pm

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Aspies above all should never, ever drink -- because... because... well, say you have only a Celeron for your social cpu. And let's say, you decide to run the Celeron at half-speed (by drinking). Well, the poor little Celeron social cpu just can't keep up with all the social instructions firing at it all the time... result: freeze, glitch, system slowdown...problems! :coffee:
This isn't even close to truth for me. Some of my best social experiences happened while I was drunk. I had my first French kiss while totally wasted at a fraternity party in a bar. I danced with friendly women on my cruises, also while drink. I met a feisty lady during a karaoke night on one cruise, while I was drink, and singing onstage. After I sang and walked offstage, she shouted across the room to invite me to sit with her; I'm sure she was drunk too. She turned out to be one of the most fun women I ever met, even though she had sleeve tattoos and dropped F-bombs frequently. Me and her group hung out for the rest of the cruisel.

Last but not least, I first took up drinking after a very traumatizing therapy session. That ***** [female dog] didn't even apologize, but instead demanded that I tell her how the abusive session made me feel. :evil: I realized she was a sociopath who enjoyed seeing me emotionally destroyed. (Most, if not all, therapists are sociopaths, but she was just worse than others.) So I took up drinking. If it weren't for the alcohol that numbed my sad, miserable feelings, I probably would have committed suicide the same week. Which means there would have been blood on that the-rapist's hands, so alcohol saved her career too. I've been drinking every change I get ever since.



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06 May 2021, 10:22 pm

If I'm not being direct in rejecting someone it's because I'm trying to 'look after' something. Like his feelings or myself from something like being verbally abused.

kraftiekortie wrote:
But I'm surprised that there is no "allure" attached to a man who stays in the background, and just observes.

I wouldn't say that there is none. I can say for myself at least, that I would have a curiosity of such a man. But being that I am shy and also the type that sits in the background observing....one of us approaching the other doesn't have very good chances


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Muse933277
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06 May 2021, 10:46 pm

Hot take but the reasons why traits such as introversion and short stature still persist is because although these traits are unattractive in men, being short nor introverted doesn't negatively affect a woman's romantic or sexual opportunities due to sexual selection. So if a short or introverted woman has kids, there's a good chance her kids will be short too, regardless if they're male or female.


The reason why introversion is a negative trait in men and a neutral trait in women is due to sexual selection and how the overall dating market works. You see, in most cultures, it's the men who are the ones doing the initiating and pursuing. This means the dating market favors more bold and extroverted men, while shy and timid men are more likely to stay single for longer.

Women on the other hand, they can afford to be more quiet and shy because they can simply wait for men to come and approach them. This is the reason why shyness and introversion isn't as big of a negative trait for women in the dating marketplace.



rdos
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07 May 2021, 2:10 am

Alterity wrote:
I wouldn't say that there is none. I can say for myself at least, that I would have a curiosity of such a man. But being that I am shy and also the type that sits in the background observing....one of us approaching the other doesn't have very good chances


Well, it's not supposed to progress by approaching and talking, rather the next step is that these people continue to seek new opportunities to observe each other. Under optimal conditions, this can develop into a quite interesting game.



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07 May 2021, 2:12 am

Muse933277 wrote:
Hot take but the reasons why traits such as introversion and short stature still persist is because although these traits are unattractive in men, being short nor introverted doesn't negatively affect a woman's romantic or sexual opportunities due to sexual selection. So if a short or introverted woman has kids, there's a good chance her kids will be short too, regardless if they're male or female.


Not true. Introversion and extroversion didn't evolve under the same evolutionary pressures, and so these kinds of ideas are just fantasies or "just-so stories".



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07 May 2021, 3:22 am

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
... You seem to be operating on the assumption that women make instant decisions about who they are interested in, based on physical appearance and other superficialities. For many women, that is simply not the case. Many women (I can't tell you what percentage of women) need to get to know a man in a non-dating context before deciding whether they are interested.
I respectfully disagree, by presenting this "thought experiment":

• You are at a party.
I never was much of a party-goer, but I guess that's beside the point and that other group activities could be substituted for "party"?
Fnord wrote:
• You know everybody except two men, who could be identical twins.
• One of the men hangs back and avoids speaking to anyone.
• The other man mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation.

Which man who would most likely interest you?

I am guessing (based only on personal experience and observation) that you would most likely be interested in the man who mingles and actively participates in at least one lively conversation, while ignoring his (seemingly) identical twin.  This decision process would likely take only a few minutes, if not only a few seconds.
Here it's more a case that the man who talked to me has given me an opportunity to get to know him, at least a little bit, whereas the silent man has not.

If I were subsequently to encounter the silent man in another context where he wasn't so silent anymore, I wouldn't necessarily reject him because he was silent at the first event. It would just take longer for me to get to know the previously-silent man before deciding whether I was interested in him or not.

Of course, if the silent man never talks to me, then I would never decide that I am interested. But this would not have been because I made a quick decision to reject him, but because any possibility of a decision has been indefinitely delayed.

Note: The above also assumes that I am not the leader/facilitator/hostess of the event(s) in question. If I were the leader/facilitator/hostess, then I would actually make a point of seeking out and talking to the relatively silent people, and perhaps introducing them to other relatively silent people, to ensure that they feel included in the event.
You will not say that I am wrong, because that would be a lie.

I will say that you are wrong about the original claim that your "thought experiment" was intended to prove -- that I make snap judgments about people. Many people do habitually make snap judgments, but I am generally a lot slower about making judgments about other people than most people apparently are (at least in situations where I don't absolutely need to make a snap judgment). And, no, this is not a lie.

Fnord wrote:
[color=black]You will not admit that I am right, because you do not like me.

No, this isn't about you.

Fnord wrote:
So you change the conditions to fit another narrative with which you will agree.

My point was to concede the truth of one of your subsidiary hypotheses while rejecting your main point.


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07 May 2021, 9:34 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
For one thing, she opened up a bottle of liquor 5 minutes into the date. Anyone that knows of me on this forum knows how I feel about drinking. That, to me, was a deal-breaker.


[...]
I also don't like drinking


To the various folks here who feel that they are the only ones in the world who don't drink: Behold, two more non-drinkers, here on WP.


I drink. I don't like drunks.


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07 May 2021, 9:40 am

I don't really think anyone's direct in this area unless they're really ruthless or don't think much of you.

One of the most difficult things to deal with in the world of dating is how much your respect for someone as a person and your sexual attraction to them can swing independently. Neither layer is less real, it's just that the lower-level wiring doesn't care about the European Enlightenment, secular humanism, or anything else, it's governed by historical accruals.

If they're not interested but like you enough as a person to keep contact you'll see their affect flatten, or signs that their down, or signs that they're pushing off when you show interest on that level - that's at least your signal that they're not interested in you sexually or romantically and that it would be better if you stopped.

I'm at least glad that I've been in this spot enough times to know how much it sucks, it feels nothing like holding keys of power and much more like feeling wretched for having caused harm in the world that you had no capacity to stop.


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Mona Pereth
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07 May 2021, 12:46 pm

Muse933277 wrote:
Hot take but the reasons why traits such as introversion and short stature still persist is because although these traits are unattractive in men, being short nor introverted doesn't negatively affect a woman's romantic or sexual opportunities due to sexual selection. So if a short or introverted woman has kids, there's a good chance her kids will be short too, regardless if they're male or female.


The reason why introversion is a negative trait in men and a neutral trait in women is due to sexual selection and how the overall dating market works. You see, in most cultures, it's the men who are the ones doing the initiating and pursuing.

Actually, in many traditional cultures, marriages were arranged by parents, other relatives, and/or professional matchmakers, so even the man didn't have to do very much "initiating and pursuing."

More generally, the social demands of modern Western culture are very different from those of previous eras.


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