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The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Apr 2021, 3:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Muse933277 wrote:
This scenario is something that is very very very common because guys are blue pilled into believing being friends with a girl first is the best tactic and that somehow, she'll give him a chance if he's nice to her for a long time.
Uh-oh ... INCEL ALERT!!

:lol:
Darn, I missed it!

But that answers my question about Muse933277's sources of "knowledge" :P
No worries ... at least we now know where he is coming from.

:lol:


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quite an extreme
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01 May 2021, 4:19 am

dorkseid wrote:
Women don't just entirely ignore that I exist. I have a long history of women going out of their ways to spend time with me and get to know me. But it has always been strictly as a friend. This has happened many time in college and afterwards. Most of these women had boyfriends at the time...

Any attractive girl who wants a boy friend has no problem to find one except she's overly picky as not even few women are. Most attractive women are approached a lot by all kind of men. For this you should realize that it is normal for women to have boyfriends who they only leave once you are a lot better choice in her eyes. Women are judging men at first sight. They are noticing your interest in them as well as they are caring social behavior. They may signal interest by staying near to you but they are expecting you approaching them.


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dorkseid
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01 May 2021, 11:20 am

I've tried approaching women many times. I have never not gotten rejected.



quite an extreme
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01 May 2021, 1:05 pm

dorkseid wrote:
I've tried approaching women many times. I have never not gotten rejected.

Does 'never not' of you mean 'always' ore 'never'?
How women see you depends a lot on how you are acting. I can't even tell regarding myself too but I'm very aware that they nearly always have wrong expectations or get me kind of wrong as I usually don't get what they even are expecting of me.
I would only start a relationship if one is really crushing on me before.


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DW_a_mom
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01 May 2021, 6:17 pm

I don't think there is any single answer here.

I've known quite a few people who probably sort into the same kinds of boxes that you do (pattern of easy friendships but few romantic relationships) and the reasons, and results, can vary quite a bit.

Most of the time the person is non-threatening, easy to talk to, shares interests, and attractive enough to feel pleasant around, but not so attractive to inspire immediate lust.

I have seen some turn into long term, serious relationships. And I've seen others go through life in an unending pattern of rinse and repeat.

Let's start with this: I'm from the school of "never date someone you work with," as I believe most women are, so relationships with coworkers are to alwasy be assumed to be purely platonic. For people who follow that rule, co-workers are, from day one, non-threatening because they are off-limits as long as you work together. Too many of your examples involved women you worked with, and that likely has a huge effect on the equation. Don't even consider the possibility of attraction and dating until one of you has left the job.

After that, my guess is that the difference comes from the following factors:
1. Whether or not the starting page is equal, or at least honest. From the standpoint of expectations, but also of attractiveness and ease to be around.
2. From there, sheer luck seems to turn the equation: you met the person with whom attraction for both of you grows as you get to know each other.
3. Finally, someone took the initiative: ultimately, when number 2 happens, someone will have to say it. From what I've heard, it is usually approached from the angle of being clear that keeping the friendship is the priority, but you are wondering if they have ever considered if there could be something more there. I do believe it has to be a conversation, and not a move. I can't think of any successful relationships that came from a "friend" making a move (they may exist, I just don't know of them).

I say don't give up, but also don't try to force things that aren't there. When it comes to friendships with women who are not co-workers, do better at encouraging communication about goals and feelings, because that will also make it more natural to discuss changes in feelings if they arise.

One thing to consider is that sometimes our subconscious creates the life we secretly want for the moment, instead of the one we consciously think we want. Relationships are intense with a lot of give and take; your subconscious may be uncomfortable with the idea, and prefer the ease of female companionship that doesn't involve so many emotions and expectations. Of course, the best romantic relationships are also "easy," so having mutual attraction develop in a fun, easy and light situation can be very convenient.

I wish you the best of luck.


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02 May 2021, 3:17 am

Muse933277 wrote:
magz wrote:
In other words, you don't even consider a woman - attractive or not - as interesting as a person, outside of dating/sex context?

BTW, according to your view, I became an old woman at the age of 12 :lol:



I'm just telling you how most men think, whether they'll admit to it or not.

A lot of guys ARNET going to be honest with you either because they're trying to be polite or they don't want to ruin their social reputation by appearing to be shallow. I don't really care and i'll give it to you straight because iv'e got nothing to lose.


A lot of guys (not all of them) only want to be your friend because they're attracted to you and/or they want to have sex with you. That's why lots of young women, especially if they're single, have what you called "orbiters". Men who are friends with a girl because they like her and they think that by doing nice things for her will make her realize that she likes him and wants to have sex with him. Almost every single decently attractive 20 something year old woman has dealt with at least one orbiter in her lifetime.


A big reason WHY lots of guys do orbiting behavior is because many guys get told that if you like a girl, you have to be friends with her first, oftentimes by a female figure such as a mom. Another reason is because guys are too scared to make a move.


But here's the thing that most women won't tell you. While you're befriending this girl in the hopes that she comes around some day, she's signing up for online dating and going on dates, and sometimes even hooking up with other guys. While you're deep in the friend-zone, the other guy who she met on Tinder and who wasn't afraid of letting his intentions be known, is currently in her room having sex with her.

And when you finally get the courage to make a move after a year of knowing her, she gives you the "i'm not looking for a relationship right now, lets just be friends" talk. Two month later, her facebook account says she's in a relationship.


This scenario is something that is very very very common because guys are blue pilled into believing being friends with a girl first is the best tactic and that somehow, she'll give him a chance if he's nice to her for a long time.


You fail to realize that people can have layers of everything you described at the same time. While having just sexual intentions and being the friend nice guy can be attractive to a woman, it is not the only thing that is attractive to women. You know how one woman can be attracted to various personalities or may have one type, women also may settle to get one aspect of a man such as being a provider or being very intellectual and having a good degree. I think most wives and girlfriends expect the guy to also be their friend, not just a sexual interest.



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02 May 2021, 11:13 pm

Work is the only way I've met anyone in the past ten years. Eliminate women I meet through work as an option, and there is literally nobody left.

Also, this pattern was just as consistent back when I was in college and meeting women there.



The_Face_of_Boo
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02 May 2021, 11:18 pm

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DW_a_mom
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03 May 2021, 12:01 am

dorkseid wrote:
Work is the only way I've met anyone in the past ten years. Eliminate women I meet through work as an option, and there is literally nobody left.

Also, this pattern was just as consistent back when I was in college and meeting women there.


In that case, I would recommend starting with wide open and direct communication. A very non-threatening approach might be to use your ASD, saying something like "I have a lot of trouble reading social cues and understanding people's intent, and it has caused some misunderstandings in the past. While spending time with you sounds lovely, I need you to spell out what you envision for this interaction."

Remember that feelings can change over time. Nothing wrong with starting as friends; it can build a great foundation. You just can't expect her feelings to change.


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dorkseid
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03 May 2021, 5:14 am

Its all academic by this point anyway. Its too late for me to find anyone now. I can no longer relate to women my age because of the disparity in life experiences. They've all been through so many relationships, including marriages and divorces, and have been raising kids that are now old enough to be graduating from high school. Besides, I'm not even attracted to women my own age anymore. Every women I have been attracted to in the past several years has been at least a decade younger than me.



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03 May 2021, 3:31 pm

I would say they probably view you in a superior way to how you think they view you. I will give you a few tips to get a girlfriend
1 Don't be too nice
2 Don't be too available
3 If you spend too much time with someone and you havent made your move they will think you are just friends. Maybe she said you were friends to see how you reacted. I had a girl who said we were friends but I told her she was gorgeous etc and that soon changed.

They will play the games, you don't need to understand them but be ready for them.



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08 May 2021, 5:02 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Image


I've spent most of the past decade on every dating app and website you think of. Tender, OkCupid, Match, eHarmony, adultfriendfinder, etc. And nothing ever came of any of it. There were a total of maybe 4 or 5 times that I ever made it even as far as to meet someone in person. Of those, all but one had no interest in any further dates after the first, and one woman went out with me a second time but neither of us were feeling any connection.

Surely you've noticed the painfully obvious selection bias at play in this survey: only couples were asked. In other words, every person who responded was at least moderately attractive enough to successful attract a mate. All the people like me who aren't attractive enough to find anyone, whether in person or online, are not even considered.



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09 May 2021, 10:23 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Image


Not all of that online is necessarily online dating apps. Of that 39%, it could be like 20% dating apps and 15% social media/facebook groups/etc., and 4% other blogs/forums.



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09 May 2021, 3:11 pm

I've never engaged online in a way that led to making friends and meeting offline, let alone hooking up or dating.