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Kalei
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24 Sep 2021, 11:01 pm

My husband of 17 years said in a fight "I don't like you anymore" a few weeks ago and continues to act mostly normal. Occasionally he reiterates he acts normally because "he feels obligated"... I tried to ask after the fight whether he really didn't like me anymore and he doesn't. I have no idea what to do. If I was healthy I'd probably leave, but it's super complicated with a daughter, shared property, and me having been sick for now 6 weeks.

I looked at my options employment wise - there is nothing here for me here and I'd probably need to move back to Silicon Valley to find a job. Our daughter is now in high school does not want to move, and since I had home schooled her all the way until high school I have not worked. We live in a very rural, touristy and expensive community far away from the high tech industry, and he makes barely enough to pay for the house and household. Both are engineers, I'm diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, he refused to get diagnosed but he is definitely pretty high on the spectrum.

We just had a discussion in which he called me annoying and obnoxious and said I over focused on him not liking me and there are many more layers of a relationship than just liking each other.

How would you feel? Would you go to couples counseling? Would you leave? How would you act?



Minervx_2
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24 Sep 2021, 11:27 pm

What needs does your husband have that he doesn't feel like are being met?

What needs do you have that you feel like your husband isn't meeting?



Kalei
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25 Sep 2021, 3:52 am

Minervx_2 wrote:
What needs does your husband have that he doesn't feel like are being met?

What needs do you have that you feel like your husband isn't meeting?


Good question. I asked about his needs and got as an answer that I don’t care about him, I am selfish, I am annoying, I'm a bad housekeeper, I am obnoxious among a few others.

First I asked him to clarify what exactly I could do to show my care, how I was selfish ("Everywhere and nowhere, it just permeates everything"), tried to give examples of caring (gifts, anniversary, helping when he is sick, cooking meals for him I can't eat, trying to spend time with him...) asked to please lay off the criticism. I gave my needs as an example: Emotional closeness, hugs, time set aside for just the 2 of us… he said that was concrete and he had not thought about this before.

Then we argued about that I constantly opposed him. He gave an example where I had not believed him the price of garlic at the health food store 2 weeks prior and the discussion back then that had ended with needing proof by going shopping and how I was saying no just to say no and never just believed him. (I’m usually the one who does the shopping). Next came that I'm not in tune with other people's feelings.

I asked again about his needs and he claimed he had already told me and I did not want to listen because I didn’t like his answers. I asked how many negative things about him I had said to him, and how many positives. He did not remember a negative one and ended the discussion upset because I listed the positive things I had said about him in the past half hour.

It feels surreal to me, considering I spent 18 years with what seems like a different person, just the last half year things started changing for the worse, but this extreme downturn still feels jarringly sudden and unexpected. I might not be very in tune with other people's feelings, especially if they don't tell me how they feel, but this feels incredibly hopeless...



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25 Sep 2021, 4:55 am

Sounds like couple counseling might help - you look like a gender-reversed version of the stereotypical "if he cared, he would have known without telling" issue.


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Mona Pereth
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25 Sep 2021, 5:44 am

Kalei wrote:
I looked at my options employment wise - there is nothing here for me here and I'd probably need to move back to Silicon Valley to find a job.

You would probably have to update your skills first, e.g. by taking some courses online. Probably a good thing for you to do anyway (even if you were not even remotely entertaining the idea of leaving), now that your daughter is almost an adult.

Hopefully you'll eventually be able to find some sort of online job.

Kalei wrote:
I'm diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, he refused to get diagnosed but he is definitely pretty high on the spectrum.

How long ago were you diagnosed, and what led you to seek an evaluation? When and why did he refuse?

Kalei wrote:
We just had a discussion in which he called me annoying and obnoxious and said I over focused on him not liking me and there are many more layers of a relationship than just liking each other.

How would you feel? Would you go to couples counseling?

A good idea, if he's willing. Luckily most psychotherapists, social workers, etc. now do video or phone sessions due to the COVID crisis, so physical convenience is not an issue.

Make sure you find a couples counselor who is knowledgeable about adults on the autism spectrum. (Most therapists aren't.) Perhaps there's a local branch of the Autism Society that could give you some referrals?

Kalei wrote:
Would you leave?

Doesn't look to me like leaving is an option at the present time, but you should probably start the long process of doing whatever is necessary to get yourself prepared to leave if necessary.

Hopefully, in the meantime, you'll also be able to repair the relationship somehow.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 25 Sep 2021, 6:25 am, edited 7 times in total.

Mona Pereth
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25 Sep 2021, 5:48 am

Kalei wrote:
It feels surreal to me, considering I spent 18 years with what seems like a different person, just the last half year things started changing for the worse, but this extreme downturn still feels jarringly sudden and unexpected.

Have you pointed out the sudden change and asked him something like "What happened six months ago?" If so, what is his explanation of what changed, and/or what triggered the change?


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Minervx_2
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25 Sep 2021, 11:32 am

Quote:
I asked about his needs and got as an answer that I don’t care about him, I am selfish, I am annoying, I'm a bad housekeeper, I am obnoxious among a few others.


This isn't specific. What does he find annoying? What does he find selfish? etc.

Also, he answered this question in the negative - not in the positive. Instead of saying what he wanted, he just listed things he didn't like. This means not just saying what the problem is. But what is the solution. I'd ask him what could be done to solve this problem.

Quote:
an example where I had not believed him the price of garlic at the health food store 2 weeks prior and the discussion back then that had ended with needing proof by going shopping


This is not the actual issue. People find little things to criticize to avoid talking about the actual underlying things that are bothering them. If someone is trying to argue over very little things, it's because they're already stressed or upset about something else. If someone is in a calm and happy mindstate, they're not going to argue over something trivial.

It seems like he's really upset about something, but isn't saying what it is. Communication is important. If he can't clearly communicate what's actually bothering him, that's not emotionally mature of him.

Quote:
I asked again about his needs and he claimed he had already told me and I did not want to listen because I didn’t like his answers.


What were his answers?

Quote:
considering I spent 18 years with what seems like a different person


What caused this? Did anything in his life change? Work? Financial stress? Any rough events in his life? Were there any changes in either of your lifestyles or living situations?

Honestly, if he's exactly as you describe, it sounds like he's jaded and kind of given up. Like not even trying to put a full effort into fixing the relationship. Just complaining and not saying what he wants. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this and you both resolve this, because I don't want to be right about that.



Kalei
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26 Sep 2021, 1:56 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
You would probably have to update your skills first, e.g. by taking some courses online. Probably a good thing for you to do anyway (even if you were not even remotely entertaining the idea of leaving), now that your daughter is almost an adult.

Hopefully you'll eventually be able to find some sort of online job.

That sounds like a good idea!

Kalei wrote:
I'm diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, he refused to get diagnosed but he is definitely pretty high on the spectrum.

Mona Pereth wrote:
How long ago were you diagnosed, and what led you to seek an evaluation? When and why did he refuse?

I had read a lot about AS because I saw several traits, positive and negative, in me and my husband and was afraid of having a child with full blown autism. Our daughter seemed to have light Aspergers, less than I and when I went to a psychologist with her over 10 years ago I was diagnosed. A few years ago our daughter was undiagnosed. My husband always had troubles looking at himself, analyzing his feelings, emotions, what made him tick. He just refused to do any test or go to a psychologist because he didn't think it would make a difference, and if a diagnosis ever leaked it might lead to uncomfortable situations.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Make sure you find a couples counselor who is knowledgeable about adults on the autism spectrum. (Most therapists aren't.) Perhaps there's a local branch of the Autism Society that could give you some referrals?

I had started to look for therapists, but that had not occurred to me. Good idea!

Thanks for all the advice!



Kalei
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26 Sep 2021, 2:03 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Kalei wrote:
It feels surreal to me, considering I spent 18 years with what seems like a different person, just the last half year things started changing for the worse, but this extreme downturn still feels jarringly sudden and unexpected.

Have you pointed out the sudden change and asked him something like "What happened six months ago?" If so, what is his explanation of what changed, and/or what triggered the change?


I have not pointed it out, and at the moment he seems to view any question as an attack. I'm wondering if he has a midlife crisis. We did have a big fight shortly after I really saw the change, and I suppose that made it worse. He is also hanging out a whole lot with a male, single friend who is a misogynist and just generally creepy. I am wondering if some of that is "infecting" my husband.



Kalei
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26 Sep 2021, 3:04 am

Quote:
I asked about his needs and got as an answer that I don’t care about him, I am selfish, I am annoying, I'm a bad housekeeper, I am obnoxious among a few others.

Minervx_2 wrote:
This isn't specific. What does he find annoying? What does he find selfish? etc.

Also, he answered this question in the negative - not in the positive. Instead of saying what he wanted, he just listed things he didn't like. This means not just saying what the problem is. But what is the solution. I'd ask him what could be done to solve this problem.

I asked what I could do to solve the problems, and it's so mind boggling. He seems to feel attacked by the question He answers questions extremely vague, sometimes he seems to answer a totally different question, and when I ask again he lashes out. It is as if he is making stuff up on the spot and then doesn't know how to continue. He claimed he needed time to think about it, and he would tell me when it is the right time.

Quote:
an example where I had not believed him the price of garlic at the health food store 2 weeks prior and the discussion back then that had ended with needing proof by going shopping

Minervx_2 wrote:
This is not the actual issue. People find little things to criticize to avoid talking about the actual underlying things that are bothering them. If someone is trying to argue over very little things, it's because they're already stressed or upset about something else. If someone is in a calm and happy mindstate, they're not going to argue over something trivial.

It seems like he's really upset about something, but isn't saying what it is. Communication is important. If he can't clearly communicate what's actually bothering him, that's not emotionally mature of him.

No, he is not very emotionally mature and not in touch with his own emotions, even before the crisis starts he was like this. He usually avoids conflict even if that means a big loss for him.

And both of us are not very good at communicating. I often have troubles knowing what somebody else knows and doesn't know, and so sometimes I have wrong expectations, I believe this has to do with theory of mind.

He frequently doesn't speak up for fear of conflict, for example when it was about saying "no" to one of our daughter's wishes. He is always in the background. Often I don't think he even has an opinion on a topic, recently she pestered me so much over weeks about working as a waitress (shifts till 10pm, and school starts at 8am, and COVID) and I just was too tired of fighting with her and I gave in, my husband got mad at me, and I had to go back and explain to her that no she can't because her dad does not want that either.

Just in the last half year, it seems like he is seeking out conflict with me, as if to practice...

Quote:
I asked again about his needs and he claimed he had already told me and I did not want to listen because I didn’t like his answers.

Minervx_2 wrote:
What were his answers?

Me: "Which of your needs of me are not fulfilled? What can I do to make it better?"
Him: "You don't care about me."
Me: "In what way? I care a lot about you and I think I showed it to you too"
Him: "No you don't"
Me: "How would I show that I care"
Him: "You just don't"
Me: "I make food for you even if I can not eat it. I say thank you a lot, and I apologize when I notice I did something wrong. I made you a nice anniversary card, and did not complain that you didn't have one. When you had broken your arm..."
Him: "Why do you ask if you don't like my answers?"

Quote:
considering I spent 18 years with what seems like a different person

Minervx_2 wrote:
What caused this? Did anything in his life change? Work? Financial stress? Any rough events in his life? Were there any changes in either of your lifestyles or living situations?

Honestly, if he's exactly as you describe, it sounds like he's jaded and kind of given up. Like not even trying to put a full effort into fixing the relationship. Just complaining and not saying what he wants. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this and you both resolve this, because I don't want to be right about that.

I don't know what caused it. I guess it could be a midlife crisis. Other than standard COVID inconveniences no extra stressors. He also might not like the idea that I'm wanting to buy part of a local business, but does not openly argue against it.

In the last 2 years he is also hanging out more and more with a male, single friend, who is a total misogynist and a creep, I don't know if he envies the single life, or if some of the meanness and paranoia of the guy rubs off onto my husband.

For the record, I have never opposed their friendship, sometimes even invite him over for dinner, just when they spent Thursday evening, Friday evening and all of Saturday together I am frustrated that many of the chores and repairs that come with owning a house stay undone and what little spare time he has left over at home is not for the family but for yard work, which he insists on doing himself.



Minervx_2
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26 Sep 2021, 6:42 am

Kalei wrote:
I asked what I could do to solve the problems, and it's so mind boggling. He seems to feel attacked by the question He answers questions extremely vague, sometimes he seems to answer a totally different question, and when I ask again he lashes out.


He's not emotionally present at all. He's not communicating at all. He's not telling you what he wants. He's not offering any solutions. He's not trying to fix the relationship. He's always assuming you're the wrong one; not acknowledging his own wrongs or trying to fix them.

I suggest seeing a therapist and getting advice from them. Maybe they have a perspective that we don't.

But overall I'd consider leaving. I would say communicate and try to work things out, but he's not doing that. A relationship requires 2 people being present emotionally. If it's just you doing the work, it won't get fixed.



Kalei
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27 Sep 2021, 9:55 pm

Minervx_2 wrote:
Kalei wrote:
I asked what I could do to solve the problems, and it's so mind boggling. He seems to feel attacked by the question He answers questions extremely vague, sometimes he seems to answer a totally different question, and when I ask again he lashes out.


He's not emotionally present at all. He's not communicating at all. He's not telling you what he wants. He's not offering any solutions. He's not trying to fix the relationship. He's always assuming you're the wrong one; not acknowledging his own wrongs or trying to fix them.

I suggest seeing a therapist and getting advice from them. Maybe they have a perspective that we don't.

But overall I'd consider leaving. I would say communicate and try to work things out, but he's not doing that. A relationship requires 2 people being present emotionally. If it's just you doing the work, it won't get fixed.


I realized any question causes him to clam up, and I also realized how extreme the mess in his office is. It looks like a hoarder's den. So I suggested I help him clean it up, and he seemed grateful when we worked on it for 20 minutes together. He spends 10 hours a day working from there. He has a serious problem, and the office might be the first symptom, or the cause, for sure it would make me panicky if I had to be in there for more than an hour. I hope I'll find a therapist soon.



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30 Sep 2021, 10:55 am

I wonder if he has been masking & pushing himself very hard to keep the relationship & family life going for a long time & he eventually reached his breaking point. He feels the need to withdraw from it & he's taking it out on you because he's not sure what's going on himself. From various posts I've seen on this forum by women in relationships with Aspie guys over my many years here, it doesn't seem to be uncommon for some of us guys on the spectrum to reach our breaking points within a relationship & then we suddenly try to break free from it. I think that most of those Aspies are not cut out for a serious relationship of family life & I wonder why they allowed themselves to get in that deep. That may be the case with your guy OP. If that is what's going on here, there likely is not much you can do to change him or his behavior. You could try to give him his space as much as you can & walk on your tiptoes trying not to upset him & avoid the conflict or you can try to get out of the relationship. Either way I would not be expecting him to suddenly change back to how he used to be. It seems to me like you've been a much more involved parent with your daughter than him & thus you should be able to get primary custody of her if you or him do decide to end things. Also if you do get primary custody of her, you should be entitled to child support & probably alimony & may even be able to keep the house. I would advise talking to a lawyer so you would be more prepared just incase things get to that point where you cant take it anymore or he decides to officially end it.


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30 Sep 2021, 11:40 am

Clearly at least one of you is depressed, probably both.