More Thought on Incels.

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I still remember Abraham Maslow and his pyramid from psychology 101.

Bottom: Basic material needs (food, clothing, shelter).

Level 2: Safety and security.

Level 3: Love and belonging.

Level 4: Self actualization (Be all that you can be).

Sex is not on the list.

Agreed.  An individual does not need sex to survive -- air, food, water and a moderate range of temperature are the basic necessities.  Sex is essential only for survival of a species, and an individual will not die of it does not have sex -- although some incels may think that life is not worth living without someone to rape.

There are objectively average and below average looking men who are still successful with women and manage to find a partner. Danny Devito is universally considered unattractive yet he has a wife, and there are countless other examples of men who go on to have meaningful dating lives,


Guys who wind up involuntarily celibate well into their twenties and thirties usually do so because of a combination of unfavorable factors. Skippy (a semi-famous video star) is a good example. He's a 40 year old virgin who's not only overweight and unattractive, but his social intelligence and social awareness is very very low which is most likely because of his moderate autism. He has the social awareness of a 13 year old despite being nearly 40. But here's the thing, there's plenty of men who look like Skippy with girlfriends and wives. So for Skippy, it's his social disability along with his personality that's preventing him from achieving romantic success, with his physical appearance not helping him either.

Yep you don't need sex to survive. Ask any spayed cat.

Ask any Eunuch -- they tend to live longer than men who are still whole.

Nobody winds up being involuntarily celibate for just one reason, rather it's a combination of unfavorable factors that someone has that makes dating more difficult.

For example, what makes someone better at basketball than other people is a combination of multiple traits. Things such as height, arm span, general athletic ability, and your overall coordination, all have an impact on your potential success in basketball, and some people simply have more potential than others because they have a combination of more favorable traits.

Dating is the same way; there are multiple traits that can impact your overall desirability in the dating market. Most likely, the men who wind up incels have a multitude of unfavorable traits that puts them at a fairly significant disadvantage.

One single unfavorable trait doesn't ultimately determine your dating success like some men believe. For example; say you have two men who are both 5 ft 6, where short stature is considered undesirable. Guy #1 is 5 ft 6, but he's charismatic and good with talking to girls, is facially attractive, and in good shape. Guy #2 is 5 ft 6, but he's out of shape, shy, has a bad haircut and not good looking.


Guy #1 despite being short, is able to make up for his shortcomings by offsetting his negative quality with several positive qualities, and that's why he is successful with women despite being short. Guy #2 on the other hand struggles with women because he doesn't have any favorable traits.

And even then, just cos you DO need FOOD to live doesn't mean you get to badger rando people and saddle them with the obligation to feed you. Not to mention the fact that there's a world of difference between a piece of food, and another human being's personal physical body. Begging for an apple when you haven't eaten for days is soooo not the same thing as begging for sex cos you haven't been serviced in years.

When the average person needs food, they go out and buy it. Cos otherwise would be stealing, cos the food doesn't belong to you. You need food to live. So sometimes, if one has no money, they might steal food to live. Food is not a person. If you have money and want sex that bad, go buy it. Prostitutes exist. If you don't have the money, or access to a prostitute, too bad. Cos sex isn't necessary to live. It's a luxury. You can live without it. You don't get to decide to "steal some sex" from someone, cos unlike food, people are people, and theft of a human physical body is called something much worse than just "theft". Generally something like "rape" or "human trafficking" or "kidnapping". All the heaping heaving guilt of "boo hoo and poor me and im so lonely" is just to get the girl to cross that threshold of consent.

And all that ignores the fact that you can 100% pleasure yourself. You don't need a second person to explore your own body. "It's not the same thing!" And? So? It's still an option, and one that doesn't require dragging other people into it.

In general, if you want or "need" people to willingly participate in an activity with you, it helps to be nice to them or otherwise be likeable. That doesn't mean you go up to them and ask "hey how much nice you want for sum fux?" It means you actually have to be likeable, and not just sell your sad story as a reason for why they should be the patron saint of pity sex and sacrifice themselves on the alter of your desperate horniness.

Plenty of women have personality as their top priority - over looks, money, "success", etc - but that won't help you if your personality sucks. Since personality is their top priority, a sh***y one will run them off faster then anything. And YOU don't get to decide what is or isn't an acceptable personality to them. It's not that she's judging you unfairly - she's IS judging you fairly, you just don't like the verdict.

That really sucks! if its any consolation this happened to me as well. When I was 19 I went on a roadtrip with a group of uni-friends. We were drinking and I wanted to throw up. The guy (who I thought was my friend) let me out in the dark. After throwing up I realised my so called "friends" had driven and left me somewhere about 50km from where I lived. I ended up walking 10km on a dark road totally wasted near bushland until I got to a bus depot and managed to catch three buses home. It was kind of dangerous to leave me out there. Needless to say I never spoke to these guys again.

Years later when I was in my mid 30s I met this jerk at a bar after I finished a work function. I had learned the art of diplomacy and caught up with him (deep down I hated his guts). He pretended as if nothing happened 16 years earlier. He wanted to catch up and we swapped numbers. I gave him a fake number and threw his number in the bin.

Men can be jerks. They don't just use women but they use (and abuse) other men, they don't seem to care if they lose your trust. Everyone has this capacity to be a jerk.

I think it is. My interpretation is sex is placed with other physiological needs which must be satisfied before a person considers "higher" levels of motivation (according to Maslow). But it is less important than shelter, food, air and water obviously.

You left out "self esteem". The hierarchy actually goes like this:

1. Basic needs - one's family and/or work income provides this

2. Safety and security - one's family, city's police, and armed forces provides this

3. Love and belonging - one's family, partner, and/or friends provide this

(3.5. Sex - it's a gray area fitting somewhere here. - not a part of Maslow's actual hierarchy)

4. Self esteem - this comes from life's positive circumstances, good genes, and luck

5. Self actualization - you provide this for yourself

Am I the only lunatic that would consider sex part of "love and belonging"?

"Sex" usually ties into a sense of meaning, which is extremely important for most people.
Sex is what life is all about, from an evolutionary perspective.
We are usually driven to find a sexual partner, and if we don't, we feel a loss in the form of an emotional hunger.
Without sex, there would be no evolutionary processes.

It is emotional nonsense and trickery/manipulation by nature, but evolution has made it a significant factor in human psychology through necessity.
After all, without a sex urge in our primitive beginnings, none of us would be here now.

Almost, but not quite.

Actually, from an evolutionary POV, love and belonging is the "icing on the cake", and is often temporary in regard to a partner.
From an evolutionary POV, it is the sex part that is the most important element, in the life equation.

If you think you are important in the skeme of things, think again.
All of us are simply tools in the blind evolutionary process.
Most just don't seem to realise that.

The evolved skunk has spoken.

Agreed.
I am sure most gang-stalkers think they are good enlightened people too.

You mean you didn't realize already that you're the only lunatic here?