Perceived sexual threat Unfair or not?

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Would you say it's unfair?
No women should always be on the lookout for guys who behave strangely 88%  88%  [ 15 ]
Women should be more open minded and tolerant towards creepy men 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 17

Jamesy
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21 Oct 2021, 9:03 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Why do people usually hang out in bars all hours of the day?

Because they don't succeed in other areas of their lives, and they take it out on everybody other than themselves.



yeah like some of the regulars at the pub do to me


I will say this though there is this 48 year old lady in my social grouo who has 4 kids herself. She seems to be very agressive towards at the moment and maybe she thinks I am a pedophile?



Last edited by Jamesy on 21 Oct 2021, 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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21 Oct 2021, 9:04 am

Jamesy wrote:

Okay but I dont get why they would be nasty and want to spread rumours about me?

I'd never do that to anyone


If people are good at anything, it's being cruel.

Bars are not really the first place I would go to meet nice people.I'd definitely find a better/nicer place to hang out. Are there any places where you could hang out with people with similar interests?


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Fnord
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21 Oct 2021, 9:06 am

Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Do you still hang around the same places as those other men?  If so, it could explain your lack of popularity.
Well since covid I dont really see them at the pub anymore.
Once a rumor gets started, it is almost impossible to stop its spread.
what kind of rumour would that be then?
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Okay but I dont get why they would be nasty and want to spread rumours about me? ...
It is human nature that, when someone is not liked, others will project their worst fears and hatreds upon that person.  For instance, I am not well liked, and people have called me everything from a "Godless Commie" to a "Nazi Thug", from a "Retard" to someone who is "Too Smart for His Own Good", from "Rabid Atheist" to "Religious Nut-Job", et cetera.

And every time I aced an exam, someone would spread a rumor, usually involving cheating or being the Captain's / professor's / teacher's "pet" in some way.

Do not ask why ... it is just human nature.



Jamesy
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21 Oct 2021, 9:07 am

Flown wrote:
Jamesy wrote:

Okay but I dont get why they would be nasty and want to spread rumours about me?

I'd never do that to anyone


If people are good at anything, it's being cruel.

Bars are not really the first place I would go to meet nice people.I'd definitely find a better/nicer place to hang out. Are there any places where you could hang out with people with similar interests?



true alcohol can make people act mean. I could go to an autism meet up group



Jamesy
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21 Oct 2021, 9:09 am

Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Do you still hang around the same places as those other men?  If so, it could explain your lack of popularity.
Well since covid I dont really see them at the pub anymore.
Once a rumor gets started, it is almost impossible to stop its spread.
what kind of rumour would that be then?
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Okay but I dont get why they would be nasty and want to spread rumours about me? ...
It is human nature that, when someone is not liked, others will project their worst fears and hatreds upon that person.  For instance, I am not well liked, and people have called me everything from a "Godless Commie" to a "Nazi Thug", from a "Retard" to someone who is "Too Smart for His Own Good", from "Rabid Atheist" to "Religious Nut-Job", et cetera.

And every time I aced an exam, someone would spread a rumor, usually involving cheating or being the Captain's / professor's / teacher's "pet" in some way.

Do not ask why ... it is just human nature.



I dont get why I wouldn't be liked? Some People who meet for the first time say I seem nice.



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21 Oct 2021, 9:10 am

Jamesy wrote:
true alcohol can make people act mean. I could go to an autism meet up group


Very true. That sounds like an awesome idea! Have you been to one before?


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Fnord
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21 Oct 2021, 9:12 am

Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Do you still hang around the same places as those other men?  If so, it could explain your lack of popularity.
Well since covid I dont really see them at the pub anymore.
Once a rumor gets started, it is almost impossible to stop its spread.
what kind of rumour would that be then?
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Okay but I dont get why they would be nasty and want to spread rumours about me? ...
It is human nature that, when someone is not liked, others will project their worst fears and hatreds upon that person.  For instance, I am not well liked, and people have called me everything from a "Godless Commie" to a "Nazi Thug", from a "Retard" to someone who is "Too Smart for His Own Good", from "Rabid Atheist" to "Religious Nut-Job", et cetera.  And every time I aced an exam, someone would spread a rumor, usually involving cheating or being the Captain's / professor's / teacher's "pet" in some way.  Do not ask why ... it is just human nature.
I dont get why I wouldn't be liked? Some People who meet for the first time say I seem nice.
The word "Nice", for some, is a dog-whistle for "Harmless Queer".



Jamesy
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21 Oct 2021, 9:15 am

Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Do you still hang around the same places as those other men?  If so, it could explain your lack of popularity.
Well since covid I dont really see them at the pub anymore.
Once a rumor gets started, it is almost impossible to stop its spread.
what kind of rumour would that be then?
Jamesy wrote:
I have been called (only by other men) pedophile before.
Okay but I dont get why they would be nasty and want to spread rumours about me? ...
It is human nature that, when someone is not liked, others will project their worst fears and hatreds upon that person.  For instance, I am not well liked, and people have called me everything from a "Godless Commie" to a "Nazi Thug", from a "Retard" to someone who is "Too Smart for His Own Good", from "Rabid Atheist" to "Religious Nut-Job", et cetera.  And every time I aced an exam, someone would spread a rumor, usually involving cheating or being the Captain's / professor's / teacher's "pet" in some way.  Do not ask why ... it is just human nature.
I dont get why I wouldn't be liked? Some People who meet for the first time say I seem nice.
The word "Nice", for some, is a dog-whistle for "Harmless Queer".




Yes even though I am straight I have been called gay on occasions on nights out by men and women alike.



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21 Oct 2021, 9:17 am

Jamesy wrote:

I dont get why I wouldn't be liked? Some People who meet for the first time say I seem nice.

I think there is a widespread misconception that we all must strive to be liked by everyone. I don't think anyone really CHOOSES whom they like. Either a person is compatible/likable or they aren't.

Image


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Fnord
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21 Oct 2021, 9:39 am

Flown wrote:
Image
↑ THIS ↑

How can anyone expect to be liked by the very same people against whom they show contempt and dislike?



The Grand Inquisitor
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22 Oct 2021, 9:44 am

Jamesy wrote:
Do you think it's unfair and ignorant of some women to assume that a man who's mannerisms are creepy is a 'sexual threat in some way?

A lot of guys (including myself) who's mannerisms are creepy are actually harmless in reality.

The first thing I'd say is that you should avoid referring to yourself as creepy unless you're actually engaging in inappropriate behaviour. If it's just that your mannerisms are a bit atypical, I think categorising yourself as awkward would be more appropriate.

As to whether it's unfair for a woman to assume that an awkward or 'off-beat' man might be some sort of threat to her, I'd say yes and no.

On one hand, as a guy who might be awkward, it sucks being scouted out as a potential threat when all you've done to earn that wariness is exhibit mannerisms that are natural to you and largely unchangeable without considerable effort, if you can meaningfully change them at all. It's not fair to have to deal with that when you haven't done anything bad.

On the other hand, as men are generally bigger and stronger than women, women need to be more wary about their safety around men than men do around women. Exhibiting atypical behaviour or mannerisms can make you come across as unpredictable and harder to relate to. Being unpredictable means that it's harder for women to judge whether or not you're a potential threat, and being harder to relate to means there's an obstacle with getting to know you that isn't present when getting to know other guys. A woman being charitable to you and lowering her guard around you in the face of uncertainty could have dire consequences, so it's unreasonable to expect women to consider your feelings above their own safety.

That said, a woman taunting you or calling you creepy when you haven't actually behaved inappropriately is unjustified and unfair.



The Grand Inquisitor
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22 Oct 2021, 10:09 am

Fnord wrote:
The single most common factor in your failure to 'get' a girlfriend is YOU. If a wide variety of women perceive you as a creep, then it is YOU whom they perceive as 'creepy', and neither they nor their perceptions are at fault.

I don't think that's a good way to engage with someone who's struggled with dating for a long time, is likely depressed about it and probably has self-esteem issues from it. Even if it is the case that the OP is broadly off-putting to women, it doesn't inherently follow that the OP is a wholistically unappealing individual, and that's the implication when you name the OP as the common denominator in his failure with dating rather than isolating traits, conditions or other hurdles that could be interfering with his success.

It seems to be the case that men on the spectrum disproportionately struggle with romance and romantic courtship, and even those who end up being successful often only go on to become successful after struggling. I think it would be more reasonable to cite a disorder that impairs one's social skills as being a key factor in one's lack of romantic success than the individual themselves. You could even cite behaviours he's exhibited, or other factors, but I don't think it's very productive or constructive to say something to the effect of "No one likes you? Well you must be the problem!" It comes across as putting the OP down rather than actually trying to help him.



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22 Oct 2021, 10:33 am

The first step in solving relationship problems is accepting that the person experiencing the problems is the one who has the problems.  I had to accept this for myself instead of blaming "the world" before I could actively seek improvements in my own behavior to solve my own relationship problems.

You have to own your problems before you can solve them.

Others on this website have gone years denying that their social problems originated with themselves, and claiming that their social problems were everybody else's fault.  Some have even gone so far as to claim that the main reason they had social problems was because people they had never met did not want them to have friends -- as if their thoughts somehow "magically" influenced the actions of others.

I say it is better to get to the source of the problem and address it directly than to be politically correct and do nothing more than describe the problem in high-sounding and convoluted terms.

A person who is perceived as a creep by many is likely exhibiting creepy behavior often.  It is that person who should examine his/her own behavior and try to change himself/herself than for the person to blame everyone else and expect only everyone else to change.



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22 Oct 2021, 1:36 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
I don't think it's very productive or constructive to say something to the effect of "No one likes you? Well you must be the problem!" It comes across as putting the OP down rather than actually trying to help him.

I do agree. I don't think it is a particularly helpful approach, and it would likely only serve to further drive a person to become even MORE self-conscious when it comes to dating/love (which would only exacerbate the problem).

Fnord wrote:
You have to own your problems before you can solve them.

I get where you are going with this, but I think social problems are way more complex than that. Many on the spectrum cannot even recognize what others perceive as problematic, much less "own" these problems (at least without some guidance).

Unfortunately, I'm teetering on a shutdown right now, and my thoughts are starting to get a bit jumbled/smudged (the stresses of moving, ugh). If you don't mind me coming back to this at a later date to expand further on what I mean, I would much appreciate it! :oops:


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The Grand Inquisitor
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23 Oct 2021, 12:58 am

Fnord wrote:
The first step in solving relationship problems is accepting that the person experiencing the problems is the one who has the problems.  I had to accept this for myself instead of blaming "the world" before I could actively seek improvements in my own behavior to solve my own relationship problems.

You have to own your problems before you can solve them.

Obviously you need to acknowledge the factors that are inhibiting your success in order to improve your situation.

I'm not advocating for "blaming the world". What I'm saying is that just because an individual has a problem, it doesn't necessarily follow that the individual is the one to blame for it. A person who was born with a physical disability that renders them unable to walk is no more culpable for their plight than a person who was born with a condition that inhibits their social skills is for their natural disadvantage in social situations.

Obviously that doesn't detract from the fact that the individual in the latter case is going to need to figure out for themselves how to cultivate fulfilling social and romantic relationships despite their disadvantage. I'm just saying that we should recognise that people who are at a social disadvantage shouldn't inherently be blamed for all aspects of their lack of success in social situations, or be treated like they're failures when factors outside of their control are likely accounting for at least some of their failure.

Fnord wrote:
Others on this website have gone years denying that their social problems originated with themselves, and claiming that their social problems were everybody else's fault.

When you say that their social problems originate with themselves, are you implying that their social problems are their own fault?

If so, would you also say that a dyslexic person's extra difficulty with reading is their own fault?

Fnord wrote:
I say it is better to get to the source of the problem and address it directly than to be politically correct and do nothing more than describe the problem in high-sounding and convoluted terms.

If you think that addressing the problem directly is the best way to go about it, you should agree with what I'm saying. I'm talking about isolating and examining the problems that are inhibiting the individual's success as opposed to oversimplifying everything and asserting that the individual themselves is the problem.

Fnord wrote:
A person who is perceived as a creep by many is likely exhibiting creepy behavior often.  It is that person who should examine his/her own behavior and try to change himself/herself than for the person to blame everyone else and expect only everyone else to change.

Though more often than not, one who is frequently perceived as a creep is likely exhibiting creepy behaviour, one can also be perceived as a creep just because they're awkward. This perception can be exacerbated through chatter behind the person's back.

Even where one is exhibiting creepy behaviour, for those with deficits in social skills, it may not always be obvious what behaviours they're exhibiting that are contributing to this perception. Its conceivable that such an individual may be incapable of figuring out what they're doing wrong without an observer to explain it to them.

Where I agree with you is that the individual has no solid foundation upon which to blame everyone else for their own social difficulties, and it's unreasonable to expect everybody else to change to accommodate them. That doesn't necessarily mean that the individual is entirely to blame for their own social difficulties.



Jamesy
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25 Oct 2021, 10:40 am

Having a weird attitude towards women probably doesn't help me escape the creep zone either.