Bait and switch

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I didn't say it was "actually" slip of tongue, I said she "pretended" that it is.

Lets say you want to give your kid a medicine, and he just won't want to take it. What do you do? You put it into the food and mix it so that he would take it without noticing it. The same thing is what she did with the word "at". Instead of saying "you are talking at people instead of talking to people" (something I could object to), she said "you should help people instead of talking at them" (thus hoping I won't notice the word "at" since it hasn't been contrasted with the word "with").

And this relates to the other issue. Since she never said "you should talk to people instead of talking at them" but instead she said "you should help people instead of talking at them", this implies that "talking to them" is not the option in her mind. In other words, she assumes I am incapable of talking to them. And thats why instead of suggesting I switch from "talking at them" to "talking to them" (something she assumed I am incapable of) she suggested I switch from "talking at them" to "helping them". Well, helping them without talking *to* them is pointless, that would made me feel like a servant.



That is a great example of this kind of misunderstanding. From my point of view, if I talk "at" people, I basically treat them as brick walls and don't listen to their response. Here on WP, I do listen to your response, so that means that I talk "to" you. Or are you assuming I don't read your response? If so, that would be a huge misunderstanding.

By the way, I don't understand why would anyone truly talk "at" people on the first place. It makes just as little sense as talking at the furniture. So since you don't see people talking at the furniture, common sense should tell you that they don't talk at people either. If it comes across that way, it must be a big misunderstanding.

It is still important since it implies the implicit assumptions people are making about me. And if people other than you make those same assumptions, that might contribute to my social difficulties.



I intended to post it back then when it happened. BUt I wanted to dissect sentence by sentence (not just the parts I am dissecting now, but other things too). So I kept postponing it because it would have been a really long post that would have taken a long time to write. But finally I realize that if I keep postponing it I would never post it. So I decided to post just the main thing and leave finer points for subsequent replies.

The reason it is still important is that its not just her with whom I was in that situation. This situation is recurrent and occurs with lots of people.

You shouldn’t say false things like “blacks have smaller brains than whites.” That’s hogwash.

When I was in high school, I was friends with a black Aspergian who sucked at sports.

There are black autistic savants on YouTube.

I didn't mean every single black. I meant statistics. Kind of like "Californians votes democrate, Texans vote Republican", even though you can find plenty of Californians that vote Republican and plenty of Texans that vote Democrat.

If you were to do an actual statistics among each race, you would get a bell curve. So bell curve for blacks would be shifted relative to bell curve for whites. But if you are going to look away from the center of the bell curve, you will always be able to find someone black and someone white who compare to each other in the opposite way to what statistics suggests.

Finally, if you think that people that say "blacks have smaller brain" only say it because they hate blacks, why don't they also say "blacks are bad at sports" out of hatred? Why do they instead say "blacks are good at sports", even though it sounds like praising blacks. Similarly, if they can say "blacks have smaller brain" out of hatred for blacks, why doesn't anyone say "Jews have smaller brains" out of hatred for Jews?

The obvious answer to this is that there is "some" statistical basis to the claims they do make. And thats why they don't make those other claims. The claims "blacks have lower IQ" and "Jews are bad at sports" seem statistically plausible, while the claims "Jews have lower IQ" and "blacks are bad at sports" are implausible. Now, its true that people can exaggerate things out of hatred. So you need to account for that. But there is still at least "some" tendency in this direction, just smaller than some people are trying to make it out to be.

P.S. Just curious how did you know that friend of yours had Asperger given that such diagnosis didn't exist at that time? Did you keep in touch with him and learned that he was diagnosed that way later? Or are you just guessing thats what he had?

Last edited by QFT on 15 Sep 2022, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

He had all the “hallmarks” of Aspergers.

I'm starting to feel like we might be a doublethink society.

I have a feeling you are getting fixated on the 'talking at people' comment instead of looking at the overall impression you make.
Reading the chat log, I'd advise anyone who received those kind of messages to block the sender, especially when you become aggressive towards the end.
There's so many red flags in there, it's simply not worth the risk.
And then to continue messaging her from another account moves you into the realm of crazed stalker.
None of this situation may be 'right' in your opinion, but as they say, 'you can be right or you can have a relationship'.

As far as "aggressive towards the end", I can see it. But, by your own words, it is not the only reason, only one of the reasons. So what is it other than the end that would prompt the person to block me? From my point of view, throughout the bulk of the chatlog, we were both complaining about our lives. So since it wasn't one-sided, I don't see what was inappropriate about it.

1. You told her you have obsessive behaviours. Big red flag.
2. Intolerance towards gay people (maybe this is an ok topic with certain Christian groups idk)
3. Racist comments.
4. Superiority comments.
There's more but they're the main ones.

But thats the truth: I do have obsessive behaviors. So are you saying that since I have obsessive behaviors I should be single for the rest of my life? Everyone else can walk away from my obsessive behaviors, for them its easy. But what am I supposed to do?

Also, the whole context of my obsessive behaviors is the FACT that nobody else talks to me so I have nothing else to do but stare at the internet screen. So maybe if someone were to look PAST IT and actually engage with me, I won't have to be obsessive any more. But, BECAUSE OF my obsessive behaviors, nobody wants to engage with me, so I am LEFT having to continue them. Its a negative feedback.

I realize that I sound blaming, which is another red flag. But, again, what am I supposed to do? By your own words, if I admit obsessive behavior in the past, then others should all block me. So that sort of implies being condemned for life due to them.

Lets put it this way. If I admit to being obsessive in my own life, am I doing anything TO HER? Nope. I am only admitting about something I do on my own. So if she should block me, then by the same logic, everyone else should too. And this, in turn, would condemn me to life of loneliness, which is unfair.

What WOULD BE fair, is for her to block me if I do something TO HER. Then I could say "well I was mean to person A, so person A blocked me; I will be nice to person B, so person B will like me". Thats fair and square. But being blocked for a reason that has nothing to do with my behavior towards her and instead has to do about admitting something in my own life, thats unfair.



Just like you said, it is okay in Christian groups. And this was "Christian dating for free" website.

On a side note, it was her who had bad experience with someone gay. So I am not sure how you can say its me who was intolerant towards gays rather than her.



I was merely describing what I said 20 years ago. I didn't say whether I still hold those views or not.

Besides, she never said it bothered her. If you look at the complaints SHE made, the racism thing was never mentioned.



Where was I talking about being superior? I thought I was complaining about my life a lot, which is opposite to being superior. And, indeed, she also said that she disliked my negativity. Negativity and superiority are very different from each other.

But, regardless, where exactly did I make superiority comments?



Like what?

There is no "bait and switch"! Women think in terms of emotions. Which means a woman can and will lose interest in you at any moment, for any reason or even for no reason. It could solely because "her feelings changed" . There's no one to blame: not you, because you did the only thing you knew; not your lady friend, because she simply acted on her base instincts; not the government/corporations/society, because they just want to get more easy money.

Forget about her and move on. "Her feelings changed" , and there's nothing you can do about it. Except act like you never met her and move on.

Perhaps it would help to seek out women who also have obsessive behaviors & who also tend to be negative about things, like maybe women with OCD who had a rough life. Me & my current girlfriend both have OCD & obeseesive behaviors & tend to be negative about things. I tend to be quiet & she tends to talk most of the time, especially when she's upset which is often. Her talking at me does get kinda annoying sometimes but I like not being required to do a lot of talking. I was in trouble a lot as a kid for being rude, offensive, & mean when I would try & talk & I'm also very used to others not understanding me, tunning me out, or cutting me off.

People have told me similar to this , i tried doing exactly that and it didnt work, i think it actually made things worse.
Hence the popular phrase 'no good deed goes unpunished'

I have not found a solution at all.

What nick007 said sounds like the best advice but how to actually follow it is difficult

But if you look at that chatlog, then that woman also had a rough life and sounded negative, did she not? Thats why I was surprised why *my* negativity became a problem, if she was negative too.

So if you put your advice to seek a woman who is also negative, against the fact that that woman was negative, what would you make of it? Are you saying she was "not negative enough", or are you saying I misread her into assuming she was negative?

As far as woman with OCD it might help or might make it worse, depending on whether the areas of our obsessions are the same. For example, if the woman is obsessed about neatness and cleanliness, it would make it worse. Cause I am messy. I didn't get along with most of my roommates due to them complaining I leave mess in a kitchen that I didn't even see. I know I won't have any conflicts in this area with my current landlord since she leaves even more messes than I do (she leaves dishes unwashed and I saw some cockroaches). I am fine with that, as long as I have my own silverware, which I do. And she is fine with my messes too (which are far smaller than hers, at least so far). I am not interested in dating her though since a) she is my landlord b) she is Chinese c) She barely talks (wonder if she is an aspie?) But I guess a woman similar to her would probably be good, at least as far as avoiding conflicts is concerned.

Anyway, back to the point. You said that, in order for women not to be turned off by my obsessiveness, I need to seek women with OCD. And what I am saying is that it might create new conflicts instead of solving the old ones. Because my obsessiveness is about over-analyzing things, while OCD might be about cleanliness. So then we would have two different areas of conflict. First, she might be just as annoyed about my overanalyzing as others (if overanalyzing is not part of her OCD) and, secondly, she might be *even more* upset at my leaving messes than my roommates were (since cleanliness is not part of my obsessions). Was my messiness a reason any of my past girlfriends broke up? No. But I am just saying it seems like adding new problem instead of solving the old one. So if "finding a woman with OCD" is not the answer, what else is?



See, you did the same thing that woman did to me. You blindly assumed she talks at you, without stoppng for a second to question why. You didn't say "she talks at me instead of to me" (as in, stopping to discuss this point). Instead, you said "her talking at me ..." as in you simply assumed thats the case. But do you actually know its the case?!

I for one think she talks "to" you, and here is why. Just the fact that it "happens" that she is the only one talking, that doesn't mean that this is her "intention". Maybe she wants you to respond, but is simply not pushy about it. So when you don't respond, she keeps talking in hopes you will respond to some of the other things that she says. As it happens, you never respond, so it "looks as if" she talks "at" you. But it only "looks" that way. Because her "intention" is to get your response, which means she talks "to" you, not "at" you.

You can't judge her intentions based on how conversation goes, because the way conversation goes can be due to how you respond not just her intentions. She is talking "to" you, but you don't respond, so the conversation ends up being one-sided. Still fact remains: she talks "to" you.

Quite frankly, I don't understand how can you say anyone ever talks "at" someone, unless that person is also in a habbit of talking "at" the brick walls. If she doesn't talk to walls but she talks to you, the simple logic says that its because you can respond and walls can't. So she does hope for a response, after all. Same goes for me. And same goes for everyone else who *appears* to talk "at" people. I don't see why people don't follow that simple logic.

sometimes opposites attract so a woman who doesnt overanalyse things can be with someone who doesnt.

My gf often gets hyper when she's talking & she'll ramble on for a while. It's hard for others to participate. There might be an ADHD component but not sure.

Your over analyzing things QFT & your getting stuck in that cycle. I've been there before with various things. Getting on OCD medication prevents me from getting stuck in that loop. I can kinda let things go even if I don't really understand, I can accept that & move on. Perhaps OCD medication would be helpful for you but that would be something to discuss with a psych or doc.