Dating as a Fundie
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,456
Location: Right over your left shoulder
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
Growing up, I was always told that I was bad and ended up believing it, but I still felt like I was mistreated. Many people continue the cycle and beat their own kids. I saw that in action some when I was a teenager.
I'm glad my parents stopped using corporal punishment when they noticed how it only made things worse. I genuinely worry about how badly things would have gone for me in a world where it was normalized further, or where it was normal into latter stages of life.
I would barricade myself, or arm myself, or both, or retaliate against property (and make it very clear why it had occurred). It kinda made corporal punishment completely nonviable because whatever lesson was meant to be taught would be lost under a way more serious situation that everyone understood didn't need to occur.
I really cannot fathom wanting to intentionally hurt a child. It's worse than hurting a fellow adult.
My dad was usually the one who did it. He didn't like to do it, but I'm also not sure it would have been possible to hit me hard enough to alter my behaviour radically, let alone avoid retaliation.
Corporal punishment requires cooperation, otherwise it's just a fight. Who really wants to get in a kicking and biting fight, after tearing down a door that they're going to have to replace, over something that maybe has another method for addressing.
If I started breaking s**t, there was no way to punish me further once the hitting me card was played. That's been tried and failed and made things worse and as long as it's threatened things ratchet up. How do you spank someone who's holding two knives and also about to kick a stool through the patio door? Do you lie to them and never be able to deescalate again? Do you rush them and force a bad outcome? Do you call the cops and risk even worse outcomes?
A reasonable adult has to de-escalate that situation. The hysterical, melting-down 9 year old sure as hell isn't capable of doing so, that's how all the metaphorical gasoline got splashed everywhere in the first place.
I could be an absolute terror, it wasn't my normal urge but it was easy to provoke if I felt cornered. I didn't like being placed in those situations so my mind often went to how to inflict as large of price tag as possible. Especially when it happened over s**t I had no control over, like having dirty snowpants because I had already gotten beaten up once that day.
My parents disapproved of de-escalation techniques. Maybe they would've had to adapt if the spankings didn't seem to work. They worked, but they broke my spirit, too. I should've been redirected and encouraged more because being strong-willed, stubborn, and opinionated can be good traits if they are properly channeled. I didn't need to have them beaten out of me.
_________________
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
MY LIFE EXACTLY.
My brother actually got in more trouble than I did, but that's because I was ignored. Even though he got in trouble more often, my mother in particular thinks the sun rises and sets over his arse. She's always been really protective of him to the extent that he moved out 30 years ago but she was still making and packing his lunches for work every day until he went blind and stopped working (September 2022). She thinks he's great because he communicates and he's a lot more like her in terms of interests, whereas I've always been the black sheep for being mute and meltdowny. It doesn't matter that I have way more education than he does. That was used against me because I'm "book smart" but he's the real deal and knows how to function in real life except for making and packing lunches, apparently.
That must hurt. I'm sorry this happens.
_________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
My parents disapproved of advice from experts because nothing could compare to the perfect direction from Jehovah.
ANYWAY, my own kid is on the spectrum and has ADHD. He was a huge challenge for awhile - a much bigger challenge than I was according to my mom, but with proper supports (ADHD medication, play therapy, horse therapy, behavioral specialist), we got through it. It's probably somewhat easier for parents of kids on the spectrum these days because there is more knowledge and support out there.
It's good that your parents eventually found someone who offered decent advice. It's a shame that you had to deal with abuse for years before they found someone who was actually helpful.
_________________
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
My parents didn't believe ADHD existed, so I grew up untreated. "ADHD is made up" is a common belief even among nonbelivers, but beliefs that reject science are very common in fundamentalist households.
_________________
ASD, most likely have dyscalculia & BPD as well. Also dx'd ADHD-C, but don't think it's accurate.
RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)
Also diagnosed with: seasonal depression, anxiety, OCD
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
Yeah, I get that. Are you dx ASD? I can't remember your diagnoses but I'm sure you were a handful, even though it wasn't your fault. My adopted son was a crack baby abandoned by both bio parents at age 3. He knew them and was rejected. He has ODD, ADHD, PDA, and a list of learning disabilities that would make your head spin. He tried to light my mother's house on fire (actually explode it with gas). He and his friends broke into my car when they were cruising the hood for drug money. They broke into a lot of cars, not just mine, but couldn't ignore mine or it might look obvious. He carried a blade, smoked pot around age 13, and couldn't be told no. He put his fist through my drywall several times, and burnt my kitchen wall when he forgot to shut off the stove. He was also the most loving kid you'd ever meet, and as of right now he's the most successful of them all living large in AUS doing a Marine Electrician course and working on yachts. He would kill for me in a heartbeat. I'm sure you're the same kind of son to your parents, despite it all.
_________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,456
Location: Right over your left shoulder
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
My parents disapproved of advice from experts because nothing could compare to the perfect direction from Jehovah.
ANYWAY, my own kid is on the spectrum and has ADHD. He was a huge challenge for awhile - a much bigger challenge than I was according to my mom, but with proper supports (ADHD medication, play therapy, horse therapy, behavioral specialist), we got through it. It's probably somewhat easier for parents of kids on the spectrum these days because there is more knowledge and support out there.
It's good that your parents eventually found someone who offered decent advice. It's a shame that you had to deal with abuse for years before they found someone who was actually helpful.
It's shocking sometimes when I think of what was advised, and what was available for parents vs what's the norm now.
It seems hard to believe that everyone back in the good ol' days wasn't f****d up. Or maybe they were and that explains a lot.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,456
Location: Right over your left shoulder
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
Yeah, I get that. Are you dx ASD? I can't remember your diagnoses but I'm sure you were a handful, even though it wasn't your fault. My adopted son was a crack baby abandoned by both bio parents at age 3. He knew them and was rejected. He has ODD, ADHD, PDA, and a list of learning disabilities that would make your head spin. He tried to light my mother's house on fire (actually explode it with gas). He and his friends broke into my car when they were cruising the hood for drug money. They broke into a lot of cars, not just mine, but couldn't ignore mine or it might look obvious. He carried a blade, smoked pot around age 13, and couldn't be told no. He put his fist through my drywall several times, and burnt my kitchen wall when he forgot to shut off the stove. He was also the most loving kid you'd ever meet, and as of right now he's the most successful of them all living large in AUS doing a Marine Electrician course and working on yachts. He would kill for me in a heartbeat. I'm sure you're the same kind of son to your parents, despite it all.
I'm late-diagnosed. I was diagnosed in my 20s as a result of a mental health crisis. I had an ADD diagnosis though. My parents weren't big on having me tested and accumulating more diagnoses though, so the full picture is hard to understand.
I know as an adult I have quite a bit of alphabet soup, and some more might be on the table if the full picture was known earlier.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
It's OK. I wouldn't consider it a late-diagnosis in the big picture, but I know it must have been hard for you trying to make sense of what was going on. I understand about not wanting alphabet soup, too. It seems things have really calmed down for you and you're finally able to breathe.
_________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,456
Location: Right over your left shoulder
Yeah, I had to adjust my goals and expectations, but things have been stable for awhile. I get paranoid that it's the calm before the storm.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
Yeah, I get that. Are you dx ASD? I can't remember your diagnoses but I'm sure you were a handful, even though it wasn't your fault. My adopted son was a crack baby abandoned by both bio parents at age 3. He knew them and was rejected. He has ODD, ADHD, PDA, and a list of learning disabilities that would make your head spin. He tried to light my mother's house on fire (actually explode it with gas). He and his friends broke into my car when they were cruising the hood for drug money. They broke into a lot of cars, not just mine, but couldn't ignore mine or it might look obvious. He carried a blade, smoked pot around age 13, and couldn't be told no. He put his fist through my drywall several times, and burnt my kitchen wall when he forgot to shut off the stove. He was also the most loving kid you'd ever meet, and as of right now he's the most successful of them all living large in AUS doing a Marine Electrician course and working on yachts. He would kill for me in a heartbeat. I'm sure you're the same kind of son to your parents, despite it all.
I'm late-diagnosed. I was diagnosed in my 20s as a result of a mental health crisis. I had an ADD diagnosis though. My parents weren't big on having me tested and accumulating more diagnoses though, so the full picture is hard to understand.
I know as an adult I have quite a bit of alphabet soup, and some more might be on the table if the full picture was known earlier.
I was diagnosed when I was 30 with autism and ADHD. Being diagnosed earlier probably would've been helpful. My parents were not understanding when it came to sensory issues and I was often disciplined for them. Also, being a JW is an awful religion for autistics. Maybe my parents would've pushed me to pioneer less. Pioneering involves spending 50-70 hours a month preaching. It depends on the type of pioneering one does. I ended up doing both, and it led to some major burnout. Young people who don't pioneer are often considered "spiritually weak" and are subject to judgment and snide comments.
What other diagnoses might have been on the table for you if the full picture was known earlier?
_________________
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Yeah, I heard that, too. My family would often make judgmental comments about people who gave their kids ADHD meds. They thought that the kids just needed discipline. Fundamentalists are extremely judgmental which makes them more unpleasant to be around than your average person, I think. As far as anti-science goes, I wasn't allowed to learn about evolution and didn't until I was a nonbelieving adult and started researching it for myself.
_________________
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Were your parents religious or just really ill-equipped to handle parenting?
Neither really, I was difficult and kinda obviously 'different' so they relied on doctors and experts and one school of thought at the time was 'just hit them', probably not unlike what Fnord said, only with more professional sounding rationalizations.
Thankfully, the period where that advice was guiding them was only a few years. Another expert gave them more 'there's areas where he's always going to struggle' advice, and combined with success when I was just lectured seemed to guide them towards that as the main approach.
I don't think they were particularly ill-equipped, they just struggled with a kid who didn't return affection, banged his head on the wall to the point of blacking out, struggled with sensory issues that couldn't be explained or understood, had behavioural issues at school, was prone to acting out, etc, not to mention the temper... it must have been frustrating and it's part of the reason I'm not having kids.
I couldn't raise me either, I'd almost certainly do worse, especially if I was the same age as they were.
My parents disapproved of advice from experts because nothing could compare to the perfect direction from Jehovah.
ANYWAY, my own kid is on the spectrum and has ADHD. He was a huge challenge for awhile - a much bigger challenge than I was according to my mom, but with proper supports (ADHD medication, play therapy, horse therapy, behavioral specialist), we got through it. It's probably somewhat easier for parents of kids on the spectrum these days because there is more knowledge and support out there.
It's good that your parents eventually found someone who offered decent advice. It's a shame that you had to deal with abuse for years before they found someone who was actually helpful.
It's shocking sometimes when I think of what was advised, and what was available for parents vs what's the norm now.
It seems hard to believe that everyone back in the good ol' days wasn't f****d up. Or maybe they were and that explains a lot.
I know! I grew up hearing that things were constantly getting worse and worse and that this was the worst possible time to be alive. I never found it very convincing to be honest. It's like they thought that Leave It to Beaver was a documentary rather than a stupid, unrealistic TV show. 1950s, white Americana was the gold standard. On a micro level, all sorts of crazy s**t when down in my family back in the day with grandparents and great grandparents. Of course, that's explained away by saying they weren't JWs at the time. I'm just being rebellious and irrational. Gaslighting. JFC, these people are irritating.
_________________
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Why did they decide to have children if times were only getting worse?
_________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
Last edited by IsabellaLinton on 06 Jun 2023, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Originally, they were against having children, especially my mom, but then all the sudden she wanted to have a baby. She thinks that it was a sudden biological urge or something. I always knew that I wanted to have kids; the urge didn’t suddenly hit me when I was in my 20’s. I used to think I wanted several, but now I think that one is plenty.
ANYWAY, yeah, it’s kind of weird. JWs do think it’s best not to have children, but most of them have some despite that.
_________________
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 06 Jun 2023, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________
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