I don't want to reproduce for right reasons

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Based on my experiences high IQ people tend to have less children while people who fall into the borderline ret*d spectrum IQ 75 or below tend to have the highest numbers of children assuming they don't have the self consciousness to control their emotions and instincts.

Recent studies on intelligence suggest that socioeconomic status has little to do with intelligence. People who worked as farmers or fishermen had the same IQ level as those in the higher ranks of society, but IQ is genetically inheritable.

I agree with that.

I've known people who can barely read who have high IQ's.

I wasn't really speaking of socioeconomic status.

There are many different kinds of "intelligence."

If somebody has a 75 IQ, and can maintain an organized house, and are nurturing to their kids, and encourage education (I have known people with about that IQ who vociferously support education), the kids will probably grow up OK, especially if they apply themselves in school.

Hale Bopp: If there's one thing I've noticed...is that you want to work hard on yourself. You're much better than me in this regard.

You might have this, and you might have that----but at least you also have a certain amount of mental/emotional strength. This could be attributed to your genetics; or it could be you have your own personal strength which can transcend genetics.

It definitely doesn’t have anything to do with intelligence. But liwer socioeconomic status people tend to have more children. I have no idea why.

In the old days, people used to have many children because of the high infant mortality rate.

This still occurs in places like the Sahel of Africa.

It's for a practical reason: families need hands to help farm the land, or herd animals.

No Animal hearding is needed in Western society. I think it’s more to do with education.

One factor I can think of is time. Those that are higher up in socio-economic status have to invest more time maintaining that status, such as working longer hours, social functions they're expected to attend off the clock, etc. That's less time for procreation and child-rearing. If you've seen Idiocracy the first 5 minutes of the movie describe it pretty well, although the movie attributes it to intelligence the two couples the movie juxtaposes can be viewed through socio-economics as well.

Of course that's true, obviously.

It could be education, or it could be an imminent desire to have kids because of the pressures of low socioeconomic status. Little babies tend to make people happy, and make people forget about the responsibility and pressures of having kids.

I find it hard to treat people who have children when they cannot afford them as intelligent to be honest.

How is having more children going to subtract from your current financial and life pressures? It would make it worse.

I find that to be the case myself. People should think more before having kids.

Many times, though, people succeed despite the odds placed against them. People are very resilient and resourceful.

Since there's such thing as welfare system those who have a lower status in society often make kids to get support from the government. I know it's a stupid and selfish way to earn a living passively but many people find this way as comfortable. It's called as parasitism in my opinion.

Yes, this does occur: "generational dependency."

It's the product of a vicious cycle.

I think it’s because some people instinctively feel that their legacy gives them continuity beyond their lifetime. Where I live, the way you grow up is not a snapshot of the rest of your life. While you are young, you still have a chance to have a better life than your parents. If you feel you’ve failed at life, children are a source of hope in that they do NOT have to live the way you do or make your same mistakes.

We’re destitute, make no mistake of that. Yet we have 3 children, have considered having more, and send our kids to a private school. Together we make less than $30k. All our bills are paid. We manage without central heating or A/C, cable television, or internet. We have a collection of DVD’s, use the antenna for free television, and use our cell phones for internet. We own our trailer AND the land it’s on, and we have no bills aside from student loans—and those we can negotiate out of based on our finances. Cell phone, water, and electric are pre-paid a year in advance, so all we have left are health, house and vehicle insurance. We have one functioning vehicle we share and, yes, it’s paid in full.

We don’t have credit cards. We have a few medical debts that we can manage in time. We are doing well.

It’s a hard life, but we’ve made some choices that make it livable for us and our children.

Children are handled best, I think, when they are woven into our lives. Our oldest is old enough and responsible to be left alone for a short amount of time, and the other two are well-behaved enough not to need any more supervision than their oldest brother. Otherwise, we are almost NEVER separated from them. When I play certain gigs, my wife and children perform with me (my oldest has a gift for harmony). When we have to go to choir practice, they come with us. Every Sunday morning, they sit in the congregation until my wife and I can join them. They NEVER misbehave, whereas most kids we’ve seen can’t even be trusted when their parents ARE with them the whole time. If we go to a church music conference, they come with us and sit through hours of meetings—WITHOUT coloring books, games, or our cell phones. Before he was old enough for kindergarten, my youngest stayed in my classroom with me while I taught. He never caused any disruptions.

I’m not trying to brag or dump on other kids. Our situation is defo unique and we are fortunate that we can do things with them. Anybody can do it, though. Maybe not what WE did, but children are smarter at younger ages than anyone gives them credit, and they can be taught SO MUCH, and they can help you even at 2-3 years old. At those ages, I thought it was so crazy because it was like I suddenly grew extra pairs of arms. Once they start taking care of themselves, you don’t really have to do that much. And that’s why if you make as much or less money than we do, you can still have more children because there’s always a way to make it work.

The US DOES tend to reward parents for having kids. Big tax break for having a child—which is GOOD because we need that money to help make sure the 1st year is a good one. EIC has been a HUGE help to us. And we don’t claim our kids on our tax withholdings. We DO claim them on our returns, which means we always get MASSIVE refunds. Well, massive for US, anyway. That’s how we pay school tuition, prepay our utilities, pay property taxes, buy birthday and Christmas presents, and pay down debts (if we can).

We tell our kids EVERYTHING. They know debt, ANY debt, is BAAAAAAAAD. Stay away from payday loans, student loans, mortgages, credit cards. Keep an emergency fund for medical debt, and pay off anything you can’t avoid IMMEDIATELY when you get paid, or at least as much as you possibly can. Learn to like beans and rice. Buy rice and flour in bulk. Bread dough freezes nicely, btw. Ramen noodles are your friend. Same goes for cheap coffee and peanut butter. Set aside some money to eat out with the entire family on special occasions. Otherwise, do not set foot in a restaurant unless you work there.

Stay healthy. If you are underemployed or unemployed, get your @$$ to the gym. A few years back I went from 235 lb. to 155 lb. I went up to 185 last year, ran my first 5k. Dropped down into the upper 140’s this year, gained 20 back. I got sick of it and joined the YMCA. Real cheap, too. I work out no less than 3 days a week, more if possible. I ran my first 10k back in December, felt really good about it, and will begin training for a half-marathon next week and run that in mid-February. Getting fit will prepare you for whatever is coming. And I’m trying to pass that on to my kids as well. I take turns at archery with my oldest, and it always amazes me what he can do. So this is one good activity that is good for him and gives us something we can enjoy together.

I’ll stop right there, but I can go on and on and on about how we’re doing and how we make things work. I could brag on my kids all day long.

The main point is that you don’t have to be even remotely wealthy to enjoy a full and relatively comfortable life. Ok, I’d prefer not living through extremes in heat and cold. But we adapt. And with each new season we survive, I think we get stronger. My kids will have a similar story to tell as my grandparents. When I look at how my parents, aunts, and uncles were successful, it gives me a good feeling about what our own kids may accomplish.

That alone is reason enough to have kids regardless of your circumstances, regardless of how difficult it is for them. The trials toughen them up. Having nice things is HUGE for them because they didn’t grow up that way. So they’ll have a deeper appreciation for those things having grown up poor. Having good paying jobs of $45k+ and managing that responsibly, advancing in their careers and wisely managing wealth (unlike us) will ensure their success because the way they grew up was NOTHING like that.

Finally, if you decide not to have kids for WHATEVER reason, that’s perfectly fine, too. I’m just saying if you DO want them, do NOT let circumstances dictate your reproductive decisions. Your children have to learn and make their own way WITHOUT you, even if you happen to be wealthy and you can spoil them. All you have to do is teach and guide them on that path. Do that and you’ll give them more wealth and privilege than you ever dreamed of having yourself. You do NOT have to have two nickels to rub together to make that happen.