Is Women's Problem That They Don't Feel the Pain of Rejectio

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No it wasn't an irrelenvant point, but your attitude is that, beacause some men are complete tools who won't take no for an answer, you think it's alright to make the same assumption about any guy who shows interest, which is unfair and pig ignorant. You would be saying the same thing defending women if the situation was reversed. This might seem a bit blunt, but why should decent guys have to tolerate being lied to and mislead when the bad ones have been d*cks before. It's not their problem and it's this sort of attitude that you've portrayed which ends up turning a lot of unsuccessful decent guys into being bitter and twisted.

By all means women should put their safety first, but they don;t have to be dishonest to do that. The behaviour of a minority doesn't mean you should tarnish the majority, and whilst you may consider lieing/dishonesty self-preservation, it comes across as taking the easy way out just for the fun of it.

(bolding by me)
Unless they are pretty tough, yes, they do have to be dishonest to do that.

I know you don't believe me and I give up trying to convince you because it would take walking a mile in a young woman's shoes to believe me. (It no longer applies to me now that I'm middle aged.) But yes, sometimes safety is bought through dishonesty.

Why should you have to pay the price for that? Because women do a risk analysis. Is it worth aggravating a decent man with dishonesty in because some men are not decent and will react with hostility? Yes. It is worth it. It's not worth it to you because you're the one being aggravated. But you aren't risking anything but annoyance and rejection. She risks violence. You just don't believe women should ever use dishonesty to avert violence. Get a sex change and live for a year in a young woman's body and come back and tell me that honesty is always the best policy.

You have to pay the price for all the other men because making you feel btter is [/b]not worth the risk[b]. You risk nothing but rejection. You act as if rejection is the worst thing that could happen. You don't understand what risk is.

Either clean up the language, or the thread will be locked.


M.

Im not saying that I don't believe you, but your just being completely one sided. Your argument is also flawed because what if a woman lies to a nasty guy (example by giving him the wrong number) and then he gets violent the next time he runs into her because she lied to him? The guy in question may have just walked away if she orignally said no, and therefore he wouldn't have got nasty if she hadn't been dishonest in the first place. In theory there is just as much risk in being dishonest as there is in being truthful, which is why for me, your argument doesn't stand up.

I do understand you when saying there is a risk analysis, but it also becomes an easy excuse for jerking someones chain, espeically if a woman is in the mood for messing a bloke about.

Interesting, the issue about dishonesty, and the issue of 'the ends justifying the means'.

Well, I'd like to say that few women (which I have observed) dispise dishonesty and would not accept any justification of it.

Interesting observation given the current heated discussion at hand.


Tired of rejection? hmmmm, hiring an escort should do it, no?
In that point, perhaps men have it easier than women after all

@Daemonic-Jackal, it's interesting that you completely dismiss @Janissy's perspective because it doesn't support your contention that women are just indecent, selfish liars who like to jerk a man's chain. I guess it doesn't matter how many times she makes her point, so let me echo it: a woman's safety is always more important than a man's ego. In your world a woman should willingly risk figurative and literal violence to spare your annoyance? No, actually - she shouldn't. She should always protect herself. And that means that decent guys have to tolerate being lied to and misled because of all the indecent guys who are out there. Annoying? Oh well. Repeat after me: a woman's safety is always more important than a man's ego. A woman's safety is always more important than a man's ego. Keep repeating until it sinks in.

Not sure if that's true, but the anguish and depression that follows rejection is usually because the guy takes it personnal. I've heard that in France, a guy will try twice, maybe three times. And even if he fails, he won't dwell about it too much. =/

haa its only done to get rid of an insistent twatty guys, I would give out 426-5050, if you live in Edmonton you would know it as a popular chiense food take out,

What some of the guys here don't seem to understand yet is this.

Women sometimes give a false number or other passive rejection because they feel afraid.

Period.

I didn't completely dimiss her perspective, I just pointed out how it was flawed, and that lying and dishonesty based on the idea of safety issues could easily backfire with negative consequences. But you clearly chose to ignore that.

The idea that a woman would lie to you based on the assumption that you are violent, is actually somewhat offensive to the majority of male society. If someone is showing interest, has come straight onto someone, and asked them out, having gone in all guns blazing without getting to know her, then yes in that scenario Janissy does have a valid point.

If however it is someone she has known for a while and she knows the guy who is showing interest is harmless, then she has no excuse for lying to him because the risk factor she is referring to is far less/pratically zero. Unfortunately this thread has shown that the feminists here will have an excuse for everything.

For all those women who think lying/dishonesty is ok, just bear that in the mind the next time a guy does the same to you. The point being here is that you shouldn't complain about lying/dishonesty and being shown a lack of respect when you clearly are not prepared to play by the same rules.

Last edited by Daemonic-Jackal on 13 Apr 2010, 7:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

That's a good question seeing as I am in general not very good at working out other people's intentions.

This was a couple of years ago, so I can't remember exactly what he said. I remember he told me that he liked to spend time with me because I am not vacuous like other girls. Um, I don't remember what else he said now, but I thought it was a good example to explain that girls do take into consideration how men feel. It's also a good example of me having relationship difficulties though.

As someone who studies self defence, whether or not it is "offensive" to some is irrelevant. You can't afford to take that mentality and the number of people seriously offended by that are in the minority, and they are usually looking for something to be offended by. The question is whether it is good self defence, and depending on the context it can be. In other cases it is fairly neutral when people don't accept no, and continue. it can be similar to talking to attacker. It can make you attacker more aggressive, in other cases it can subdue them or slow them down cognitively as was the case with one I was involved with due to them being stoned.

These threads come from a lack of understanding of human behaviour, resentment, and blinkered thinking. The fact of the matter is overt rejection is away difficult for all involved. You try being on the other side. However most people are rejecting all the time. It is a completely normal part of human behaviour. it is just taken for granted, usual there is no word spoken about it because it barely concious. The problem is not with the rejection, but in the inability to move on. You are rejecting purely by having preferences, and everybody has those.

To be honest it sounds as if you may have jumped the shark on this occasion. Perhaps it would be an idea to try get in contact with him and ask him how he really felt about you whilst you were friends. If he doesn't respond then leave him be but it might help clear the air.

most men who want a girlfriend have one as i can see.
i see all types of men with girlfriends.

there are toothless scrawny grizzled men who look like they have been pickled due too much alcohol and drug abuse who have girlfriends.
there are men who are disabled in wheelchairs who have girlfriends.
there are men with downes syndrome who have girlfriends.
there are men who live on the streets who beg for money who have girlfriends.
there are men who have had their faces disfigured by burns who have girlfriends.

girls are inclined to love someone who they care about in my opinion, and if they do not care for you, then maybe it is that you are hard to care for for some reason.

i think it is better to lament your deficit rather than to lament that girls do not care for you.
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i have an acquaintance who is good looking and his body is well proportioned and fit, and he has never had a girlfriend even though he wants one much more than most people.
he has qualifications to be a lawyer and he is very smart, but girls seem to not like him much.

every time he meets a girl who shows him some preliminary interest, he is too intense and desperate, and it is like he "emotionally pre-ejaculates" and he makes many serious demands on them before they know him well.
he does them favors and fawns over them, and then after a few days, he wants them to pledge their love to him.

they feel that he is a bit dangerous because he is so intense and serious, and they usually ask for more time to think about it, and he gets angry and tells them that he has done so much for them and he says he loves them more than anyone else could, and they back pedal and think he is too desperate and they decide to reject him.

he then finds reasons to "bump into them" on the street and they freak out and think he is stalking them (which is possibly true)

he continuously tries to seek my counsel on matters to do with his "love interests" and i have no advice because it is not my "cup of tea", but there is a line in a song i used to like by linda rondstadt which goes...
"love is a rose but you better not pick it.
it only grows when it's on the vine.
handful of thorns and you know you've missed it.
you lose your love when you say the word "mine".

sorry i replied. i can not see many threads here tonight that interest me so i am replying to boring ones for now.

Excellent post, b9.