Why is everyone here obsessed with attitude

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But from my post, it's 100% true. Let me share a personal account to help understand why I believe it to be true.

Sometime in May, my two close friends, their girlfriends, and me were supposed to meet at my friend's apartment and drive a few towns over to a karaoke bar. Now, I love karaoke. It lets me vent out work stress and life frustrations by singing aggressive hard rock songs. Not to mention, karaoke is something I can do as a 5th wheel without looking and feeling like a pathetic loser.

So I show up at my friend's apartment around 8:00 PM, knowing we're supposed to leave at 9:00 PM. We hang out, drink beers (except the driver, who was one of the girlfriends), and soon enough, it's 8:55 PM. When I ask my friend, he says: "We'll go in a few minutes, once the girls are done talking." "A few minutes" pass, and its 9:20 PM. My other friend tells me to be patient, and soon, it's 9:45 PM. The girls keep talking and talking and talking. I stupidly decide to give people the benefit of doubt, and continue waiting. It's 10:30 PM! Then the girls decide they want to stay home and relax (which they've already been doing for 2 goddamn hours!! !), and the guys give in without question. That's when I permanently lose respect for my friends, and vow to stay away from LTR's until I'm old and boring myself.

Oh, and to get the thread back on to original topic, experiences shape attitude, not the other way around.

well, okay then. it sounds like you have decided you have no power over your own choices, which implies you've also decided you're not responsible for them. from now on i'll just assume i'm talking to a brick wall whenever i bump into you anywhere around here. good luck!

Its post like this that really makes me think you are out of touch with some, if not a lot of people on the spectrum. Someone with aspergers or autism can simply be perceived as having a bad attitude when in fact they don't mean to. In these cases just "having a positive attitude" is not enough. What about the people with autism that do try to have a positive attitude but don't know how? Just because aspergers isn't a problem for you with relationships doesn't mean its not a problem for someone else. Rationalizing your lack of success? Jeez way to pour salt into the wounds of those who are trying and don't know why their relationships are failing.

a positive attitude is often about accepting that certain battles can't be won, and moving on to more productive things. to be clear, though, i'm actually agreeing with you. his comment doesn't seem to acknowledge this crucial detail of what "attitude" means

Well I get that people don't want to be around negativity but where is that line crossed? Life has negativity to it, what happens when a comment is taken negatively when that wasn't its intention? Are you suppose to run around and smile in every social situation? What if the situation calls for some negativity? Is someone with autism going to understand these different situations and know how to act?

I have long since wondered if Alex realizes that maybe the success he has or has reported in dating is simply from his position. I mean of course someone is going to date some popular web site owner if for no other reason than to get some kind of social recognition. I just can't see Alex having any understanding of what someone living alone, drawing disability with no social skills has to go through. He isn't and has never been on that level, I don't doubt that he has struggled with autism but I do think he might be out of touch.

His replies are frequently summed up with "act better" and if that was an option we would do it. I respect Alex for making the site but how many autistic people who are scared to leave their house has he visited with? How many autistic people who can't speak because of anxiety or another reason has he visited with? How many autistic people who don't even know what to say and how to say it has he visited with? Why would autism even be a problem if we could just "act better"?

yep. my gripe with activism, precisely

"there's awareness, there's advocacy, there's recognition. now you're on par with everybody else. you just need to see it, and you'll be on your way to success™. it's all up to you now. smile! ". nope, that's not how it works, and that kind of discourse is damaging. it even suggests that you're supposed to be "on par" with everybody else, just because there's a chance that you can (even if it means you'll be permanently living in unseen misery because of the ridiculous amounts of effort it takes you to simply fit in). that's going backwards

i understand that no one has the obligation to put up with me when i'm being unpleasant, and that's an important thing to understand, but a big part of why i feel i'm better off nowadays is because i've fought hard for my right to be grumpy when i'm grumpy. don't tell me to smile if i'm not happy, i'll just feel like punching you in the face. that means huge trade-offs for me, but such is life, and i'm content with my choices. i wish more people could see how they can benefit from detaching their views and standards from those of the groups they simply happen to be part of (autistics, nationality, school, humankind, any group)

I think attitude has a role, as in trying to be positive about things, but it is clearly secondary to accepting yourself and selecting compatible partners. No amount of training will make a disabled autistic successful with dating NTs and being positive about such approach, simply because it is a road to disaster and depression. Even somebody starting out positive will soon become negative and depressed by the rejection involved with that.

That's what I already did. After seeing what happens to people who get into relationships (both men and women), I'm now glad I can't find one, rather than being bitter/angry/jealous. Although if you follow the quoted definition, #MGTOW would fall under the "positive attitude" umbrella. Which isn't a movement most people on WP support. So perhaps we need a better way of defining it, than what's essentially admitting defeat or aiming lower.

But with that said, anagram's definition isn't too shabby, either. I agree with it for the most part. It's better than how NTs define it, which is nothing more than just deluding yourself that everything is peachy keen.

the thing with that mgtow crap is the ridiculous blame-assigning (and, let's be frank, blame-shifting). you don't need some big scary enemy (women. all of them. seriously? am i the only one who hasn't heard of their evil worldwide secret society?) to justify your actions. just do what's best for you and live and let live. why go out of your way to make enemies? enemies who happen to be the ones you're attracted to. hm...

A positive attitude simply doesn't always work.

I have severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder - not just 'social anxiety disorder, but anxiety in potentially ANY and EVERY situation.

I also have severe Agoraphobia, a fear of leaving the house alone and open or crowded spaces.

I can leave the house alone if I absolutely wanted to, but ideally for short distances and in smaller, quieter areas rather than the congestion and hustle and bustle of cities.

Secluded spots in nature, I'm fine and my anxiety is practically non-existent.

But a positive attitude never made a difference.

You have to actually work on and improve yourself as a person.

Confidence without skill is overconfidence.

Simply believing and fooling yourself into believing you're a talented musician won't make you one, it is a skill you must put extensive time and effort into to learn.

This applies to social interactions and social skills as well - simply repeating to yourself once a day "I am a confident, social extravert" won't make you one.

If I try to ignore my Agoraphobia, I'll feel fine, but within minutes I'll realize, wait a minute, I've got Agoraphobia, a fear of leaving the house alone, and I am doing it right now!

Sometimes doing something you thought you could never do makes you feel better, but in some cases it can also make you feel a whole lot worse.

At that instant I will feel the anxiety kick-in.

Anxiety is not just something you can just 'ignore'.

Whenever I get Anxiety, it hits me like being shot in the stomach or head by a gun.

Optimistically saying to yourself "It's alright. I'll be fine" won't save you.

Just like being shot in the stomach, you have to actually attempt to seek treatment immediately. So I slow my pace, relax myself, take deeper breaths, outright stop and sit down or just stand still for a few brief moments, etc. anything to get my mind off the intruding thoughts.

Asperger's is not an attitude. It's a damn disability and it's about time it's treated like one.

And yeah, in the context of Love & Dating, it simply CAN make things harder for reasons completely out of your control.

Do you think people wouldn't mind if I have Agoraphobia, or be more turned off because of it?

I am trying to overcome it, my attitude is positive, that doesn't mean it's not a real problem anymore that won't go away without a few years of treatment.

Or maybe you slightly come across as different than the other person's definition of normal and thus make them too uncomofrtable.

I'm not talking about setting off a woman's 'red flags' - I'm saying just coming across as weird or abnormal in general, and aside from a minority of unconventional types that you may not even be attracted to yourself anyway, it just won't appeal to the majority.

I still don't get where you gather the behavior of your 2 friends and their 2 girlfriend is an example of 'all' LTRs...or that it says anything about anyone other than those specific people. I really doubt when I turn 30 I'm suddenly going to stop wanting to go to concerts or out for drinks with my boyfriend and change to mudane dinner parties and never going out for fun. I mean I get what you see from them looks very unappealing but it's kind of unfair to assume they represent all women interested in relationships or that those relationships reflect how everyone elses is.

This guy is being 100% logical there; think about it, are you telling us that none of those 92% of men have bad attitudes? None of them are bitter, whiners or crybabies, or misogynist or whatever? You think all men in relationships are good, amazing and positive persons?

Rethink again.

one way to summarize it: it's not "a problem of attitude", but attitude is a problem

you have a disadvantage. you need to compensate for it. if you can't or don't want to, then you need to accept it

and surely not all married men have this ability.

Hey Outrider:

Have you ever just "forgotten" that you are agoraphobic, and went out without fear?

I hope you forget permanently some day.

It has to do with what my friends turned into. When they first started seeing their girlfriends, I was happy and supportive. I even thought it would motivate me to stop seeing escorts (imagine that!) and find a girlfriend of my own, so all of us, the 3 couples, could hang out together, as most NT adults do in real life and on "Friends" (the show I hate, but still). I figured we'd all go out together, to concerts, bars, dance clubs, and all have fun as a group. Fast-forward 6 months, and all I'm seeing are boring old farts talking about "love" and paying all-day visits to each other's families, abandoning perfectly masculine, couple-friendly activities we used to do all the time.

So my friends' relationships had the opposite effect. They drove me back into the arms of escorts hard and fast. I now attend escort conventions and visit escorts in hotel rooms more frequently than in the last few years.

Adding to the perfect storm of disappointment was something my grandmother said. When I told her I wanted a significant other with similar interests (like dancing), she said: "FORGET about your interests. They're NOT important. What matters is how you and your significant other FEEL about each other." Which meant nobody cared what I wanted or liked; only my SO's feelings mattered. Her prophecy was fulfilled, only not for me, but for my friends. They're joined at the hip with their girlfriends 24/7. Needless to say, I vowed to stay away from all LTR's.