Why are aspies pessimistic about relationships?

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Finland is a nice country. I wish I lived there, so I can have a relationship with its Nature.

I'm not pessimistic about relationships.

My ex certainly did. She even told me that.How dare they be so tolerant!

Are you actually offended by guys not insulting you based on your weirdness?

Seriously. Some men do have standards. I know I have standards. They may not be the same type of standards you use. They may be so different as to be unrecognizable to you. Just because you can't see something, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.You heard it here guys. If you act "off" that means you're potentially dangerous.Very true. That's those pesky gender roles again.Very true. That's those pesky gender roles again.

Now, it could just be me, but I get the feeling that you think there's meant to be a collective dropping of monocles (a monoclopolypse?) over such a 'revelation'.

If anyone acts 'off', they're potentially dangerous, surely? It's no guarantee, and the absence of 'offness' is similarly no guarantee of safety, but it's a pretty common flag-raiser.

Though I grant I may have misread this.

So? What does it matter if you asked your boyfriend out? I'm sorry if that sounds callous but I am simply being frank. There are exceptions to everything, the fact you boyfriend told you that should tell you something, you might of initiated that specific relationship but women are not expected or have to do that as prerequisite to ever being in a relationship. Was this your first relationship? Did you find initiating to be easy, do you see how it might be particularly difficult for a man the spectrum? If your advice is to a guy is to wait until somebody else makes a move then that guy will probably end up dying alone. I don't think the dating situation for men and women are comparable, you can disagree and hate gender roles totally but that idealism doesn't change the reality of our society and culture not to mention what is evolutionarily hardwired.

The divorce rate is still unacceptably high, any decline in recent years I'd venture to say is more from the fact that people don't even both getting married anymore as evidence by the staggering rate of illegitimacy which has reached over 75% in the black community and over 50% for women under 30.

You can be pro-choice, like I said there is a time and place to debate that issue as I have plenty of times in PPR. It is my opinion that abortion is immoral and destructive to society, abortion on demand to be used as birth control is a great evil and undeniably linked to the eugenics of yesteryear.

^^ This! ^^ Especially #3.

Even if I find a woman completely non-threatening, I still prefer to have her as a friend, rather than a girlfriend. I don't buy into the PUA belief that having female friends is emasculating, although most of my friends are men. Because good friends can generally be trusted, while relationship partners, both men and women, often use games and manipulation to forward their agendas. Also, if the female friend finds me likable enough, I often get a subset of "relationship things", like close hugs, cuddling, and sexy picture poses, which is good enough for me. Especially considering that I don't have to provide "romance" (candlelit dinners et al.) in exchange for those things.

i don't think odd automatically equals off. lots of people think i'm odd, but i doubt anyone thinks i'm threatening. people often say they find me less threatening than the average person they're used to

on another note,

https://youtu.be/tp1ZluX4aYs

lol

I mean this politely, but shut up. I told you ina different thread about issue women face with men already, so yes, if a man (or person, but men generally feel more comfortable approaching people with no indication from the other person that they're alright with it) approaches me and something about them sets off my red flags I'm not going to try to get to know them better or ask them out. I'm going to get away from them.

I am very pessimistic about my prospects in relationships. But for a somewhat different reason than some others in this thread...

After all, I am fairly certain that - if I devoted enough effort (and benzodiazepines) - I could get into a relationship with an attractive, likeable woman, get married and even have children...

... Fast forward a couple of years... to the inevitable painful divorce due to my complete lack of emotional reciprocity...

... sometimes it's not just about getting into a relationship (which seems to be a major preoccupation for a lot of people here on WP)... it's also relevant to ask oneself: Am I relationship material in the long run? ... and answering that question honestly...

When I asked myself that question I quickly noticed my deep-seated contempt for social rituals and overt displays of affection .

I also noticed that - in order to keep a relationship going - one often has to participate in both.... again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again and again...

I feel like this about relationships too. A guy is trying to start dating me at the moment and saying he wants to understand and help my autism, but I think that if I could really be my true HFA self around him, we wouldn't have much of a relationship. I need to be alone, and can freak out or be mean if my alone time is interrupted. I don't like to do things unless I know what to expect, and I tire quickly in social situations. Not to mention that I don't like or desire physical contact, ranging from hugging to sex. Oh, and I don't drink alcohol, eat a very rigid diet (and never in public)... So, even if he did want me with all of that going on, it would be a very weak and insubstantial (read:doomed) relationship.

the same objective reality can mean that you're inadequate for relationships or that relationships are inadequate for you. it's a choice

the opposite of loneliness isn't company

what is then?

that is a good question. if you find the answer, let me know

Very true. I'm not always alone but I am always lonely.

I can feel much more lonesome around a crowd of people than when I am by myself.

At least, by myself, I can watch YouTube!

You think telling someone to shut up is polite?

We live in a world of diverse opinions, not just yours. If you think everyone who disagrees with you should be silent then that makes you sound very privileged. Yes you can have horrible experiences in some areas of life and still be privileged in others. Being a victim of sexual abuse does not make your opinion more valid than anyone else's.

You seem to enjoy talking to me or else you would have stopped by now. That's ok. Say what you want. You don't have to talk to me if you don't want to but if you do I won't tell you to shut up because I don't see any need to silence opinions that differ from my own. I'm not privileged enough to think that my opinion is the only valid one.Yes you did and I didn't want to bring it up out of respect for you. I thought discussing those experiences might be traumatic for you. It looks like I was wrong. It looks like my idea of respect is offensive to you.

I sympathise with you. What you went through must have been horrible beyond measure. I can understand you having an exagerated fear of men after your experiences.

Please don't assume that I've never been through any traumatic experiences. You don't know what I've been through and you never will because I don't like talking about those experiences at all. I certainly don't bring them up just to win arguments or silence people who disagree with me. I certainly don't think my past suffering makes me opinions more valid than people who haven't suffered.

I also don't bring up my past out of respect for other people who have suffered similar experiences. They don't need to be reminded. Remember that not everyone talks about their experiences of being abused as casually as you do.

My mother went through far worse than I did  but I have too much respect for her to use her to win arguments. I never said you should have to go out with guys you don't want to. I apologise if I wasn't clear. What I meant to say was;

• I don't like being guilted for someone else's crimes. I also don't like being guilted for not having suffered enough or being told to shut up as though my opinions are invalid just because you think I haven't suffered enough to be allowed to speak. As I said, I've experienced more suffering than I'm going to tell you about. So have some of my friends. But even if I hadn't been abused or didn't know anyone who had, suffering is not a prerequisite to having an opinion so don't tell me to shut up. You have no right to demand everyone agree with you.
• The majority of women have not experienced sexual assault. Your experiences are just as valid as anyone's but one person's experinces are not a statistically significant sample size. I tried to make that point in the other thread but you glossed over it with your personal experinces when I was trying to speak in more general terms. Of course my experiences aren't everything either and I made the mistake of not considering that the prevaling male culture may be different in your part of the world.
• If some guy is hitting on you aggressively than I don't blame you at all for wanting to get away from him. In my otherthread you seem to have misunderstood me. By "creepyness", I meant ND guys who speak and move just a little bit differently and/or guys who don't have experience asking girls out (the oppisite of guys who hit on you aggresively.
• Trust in your instincts but remember the true sociopaths are like chameleons. They don't experience anxiety and they know precise how to not give off bad vibes. They are very good at reading people's emotions and they know how to become precisely what you want them to be in order to lull them into a false sense of security.
• Offering friendship instead of just saying no is dishonest. I don't know about you but I value my friends so I don't make offers of friendship lightly. Not all men are monsters and most men I know will take no for an answer so perhaps you could show men some respect and talk to them like actual human beings instead of making assumptions about them.
• Yes I realise that men can be both unpredictable and dangerous. So can women. Being falsely convicted of rape is a genuine danger for men. Before you say your experiences are worse than that please remember that you haven't experienced what other people have. You don't know what it's like to go through a long prison sentence while innocent and neither do I. Even if your experiences were worse than that, if your suffering was 10/10 and someone else's suffering was 8/10, that does not mean his suffering wasn't real. That would be like a double amputee telling a single amputee his experience is invalid just because it's not as bad as being a double amputee.

I agree that guys shouldn't hit on you aggressively or persistently but do you really think guys should wait for "indication that you're ok with it"? I agree that blurting out "will you go out with me?" to a complete stranger is the wrong approach but why can't guys initiate flirting? If they couldn't my parents wouldn't have met.

It sounds like you like to be in total control of the situation. So do other people. You can't all be in control at the same time. Expecting total control over situations in public is unrealistic and expecting total control over other people is hypocritical because you wouldn't like it if they had total control over you.

We must all accept that we can't control what other people do, when they speak to us or what their opinions are.

Double ditto here.

I married young, to someone who is (as we've come to realise the past few years) most likely also autistic, and I couldn't make that work. There's some general character stuff and that, but that I was also distant and, well, reclusive (I don't know if one can be reclusive in a life and house one shares with one's spouse, but I gave it a fair go) didn't help. We separated for a while, and then tried on and off to make it work, but it just didn't. Wouldn't.

I met a woman online while separated, back in 2010. Had a year long relationship. Seemed NT, but also introverted and a bit troubled and odd (which, frankly, is my forte). And I screwed that up. It turned out I couldn't do 'normal', even with the troubled, odd introvert. It was my failings there that sent me looking for help and assessment.

And yet, and yet. Post these, and post diagnosis, I have the sort of optimism, even confidence, that comes of having a clearer idea of who and how one is, of what one does and doesn't want, and can and cannot offer. Though any relationship in the future will have to have as few ties to or expectations of the 'normal' for it to work, I remain a R/romantic, still driven and drawn by what informed my outlook back in my teens.