What DOESN'T count as Nice Guy behavior?

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The trick is to be an honest, nice guy -- but also a bit of an a**hole. Women love that!

Nope...no a**hole for me.

I wouldn't be able to pull that one off

Genuine nice guys who are nice because that is their choice are an absolute pleasure to be around. I agree that genuine nice guys do sometimes have people become suspicious of their motives

I think this is due to those pretend nice guys who have ulterior motives affectin our view of situations.

Example of a pretend nice guy in action I experienced when at a bar:

(He aproaches me and talks nicely I chat back with no flirting)
(He asked me for a kiss)
Me: oh I'm really sorry I have a boyfriend
Him: why do you think I care? You think your so great and above me cause you have a boyfriend. I bet you don't even have one and are just making it up because you are a stick up b**ch.
Me: I really don't appreciate you speaking to me like that. I was just trying not to lead you on.
Him: wharever you fat b**ch, I bet no guys want to f**k you anyway. I was being nice and offering you a chance.
(He stormed off and feeling rather upset I found my friends and went home).

This was admittedly an extreme case and he was extremely inebriated

There are plenty of people also where, due to the attitudes of their parents and family, kindness is just strange and foreign. They just don't have a point of reference for it.

When I debate whether it's better that these people be what they are or cover it up, it still seems better that they do cover it in most cases. On one hand it tends to show in small ways and on the other a person can weed them out of their sphere of influence uneventfully. It's a little trickier to handle but it would suck to deal with that kind of meltdown every time one ran into one of these.

As you said the guy was drunk, he might have had precedent to believe that he'd be lied to about that, and I've seen guys snap like this - it's a pathetic sight. Obviously it doesn't really matter what his past experiences were; he should have internalized the idea a long time ago that you're either dealing with people in good faith and taking them at their word or there's no point in interacting to begin with.

I have no idea if a guy is hitting on me if he is talking to me. What are the clues for when they are hitting on you?

If I am interested in a guy, I would ask them about their interest and hobbies and where they live so I can see if we are compatible and also ask if they have a girlfriend. I am married so I don't have to think about these things. But what if I was looking for friends, I would be asking the same questions too and because I am a curious person.

Taking rejection hard and handling rejection badly are not necessarily the same thing. I doubt most men on the spectrum, however hard they take rejection and however afraid they are (or confused they are) about asking for a date, would fly off the handle, blame women in general for their plight, and swear to become jerks. In fact, most men in general wouldn't do that. They'd go home and distract themselves from the pain with whatever works for them - music, video games, favorite TV shows and movies, books, perhaps alcohol or marijuana - and then just get over it. The ones that both fear rejection and take it hard AND can't get over it, those are the problematic ones, and I expect they're mostly non-autistic.

The latter type - overconfident commitment-phobes - also need to improve themselves, obviously. (Or accept that their relationships will always be short and tumultuous.) They probably include a lot of narcissists and sociopaths, which are in many ways the opposite of your average autistic person. But guys like the Virginia Tech Shooter, who take revenge after repeated rejections from their love interests, well, he was kind of an extreme example, but when we talk about Nice Guys, we're talking about milder versions of him. The ones who don't get over it. And while they may be socially awkward, I doubt they're usually on the spectrum.

I dated an Aspie guy before, and he was definitely not one of these problematic Nice Guys. He was indirect and shy about asking people out, sure, but he wasn't unable to get over rejection and didn't lament that all women like jerks.

Yes. This. Exactly.

Then why do you have the need to retaliate for being "friendzoned"?

Obviously, a need for retaliation (or "flip it around", to use your words") implies - by definition - that you somehow feel slighted, attacked and/or wronged, and that she has no right to "friendzone" you.


No need to worry then. You do not appear to be at high risk of contracting this insidious affliction...

Probably not a lot, but repeated rejection can create nasty attitudes. That's a pretty normal process that is not confined to NDs or NTs or "nice guys". Still, what causes this problem of repeated and painful rejections is a combination of selecting incompatible girls and not making sure there is mutual interest before obsessing over somebody.



Uhm, I wouldn't. At least the last two are common ND traits that cause problems when not making sure there is mutual interest.

Well, at least you're self-aware that you would have a hard time getting over rejection, and a hard time checking whether someone's compatible and interested before pursuing a crush. The most problematic guys usually lack signs of self-awareness in this matter, blaming their love interest and people like them for everything because of a strong self-serving bias (tendency to ignore bad news when it's about oneself). Their script would be something like, "Surely I'm the right man. There's something wrong with this chick - actually, this chick is evil - for turning down someone like me."

I will admit, though, that a lot of NTs are turned off by ordinary Aspie behaviors and may end up unfairly mistrusted, since the NTs don't really consider AS a possibility or don't understand the difference between AS and just being an overly logical nerd. (Presence vs. lack of sensory problems that seriously interfere with everyday life seems to be one of the biggest.) Or they may, in fact, be fairly mistrusted - there are bad apples anywhere - but, unlike an untrustworthy non-autistic (e.g., a narcissist), they may not be able to charm or seduce their love interest before their incompatibility is revealed.

I didn't consider myself 'the good guy' and whoever rejected me 'the bad guy' but that still doesn't mean I haven't developed a very negative attitude regarding dating.

Constant rejection will simply do that, even if you're aware things were partially your own fault. I've suffered 40 rejections and never thought I was all pure and good but looked at things realistically each time.

I don't care. I'm still going to be frustrated that making an effort gets me no results.

Dating seems to be completely random and caused by chance.

The difference between real nice guys and fake nice guys is that fake nice guys actually think the effort they put into dating actually matters at all when it does not.

There are plenty of rude, unattractive, selfish greedy people who manage to get successful and happy relationship arfter happy relationship, and plenty of friendly, selfless, confident, attractive, healthy hardworking people who are chronically single and lonely.

Fake nice guys actually believe dating is about cause and effect. You reap what you sow. You get out what you put in. They believe romantic/sexual success correlates with effort, when it does not. This is not true as dating can not be approached logically but is completely about emotions (unfortunately).

The reality is your effort does not make any sort of difference.

Your chances may increase slightly if you focus on self-improvement but even this is not guaranteed and there's plenty of people making no effort to improve their bad life but still find happy relationships.

Your damned if you do, damned if you don't. So who cares about 'making an effort' to be happy on your own?

If you want to improve your life and try to be happy single, go ahead. Otherwise, wallowing in self-pity and misery honestly won't damage your chances much either.

I also think autistic people have a tendency to get stuck in an obsession. The same thing that fuels special interest that bring joy can fuel negative obsessions that bring pain. In my experience the only way to get rid of an obsession is to become obsessed with something else (like a special interest). I usually can't just exist without having something to constantly think about. I don't know if all aspies are like me, but I know most NTs are not. Most NTs seem to be able to easily jump from one thing to the next without getting over-invested. They are just better emotional jugglers. They can easily put something stressful on the back-burner and go have a fun night. I can't have fun when there's something stressful hanging over me.

I rather avoid rejection by being overly "pedantic" about mutual interest. It works too because I've only had a single rejection in my life, which happened early in high school.

I've been rejected dozens of times. I'm still here.

Rejection is a part of life; one cannot avoid it.

That sounds like a pro-dating slogan.

Since dating is not necessarily a part of life, neither is rejection and if you avoid dating you can largely avoid rejection as well. And you can do it while still being able to find suitable partners because dating is not a universal human courtship behavior. It's a neurotypical preference.