Why are aspies pessimistic about relationships?

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Yeah, that's what I was hoping for. I guess I was being too optomistic Maybe you're right. While there are no garuntees in life there could be a significant corrolation between offness and danger. I am curious about why this corrolation exists.

I personally don't see it as being pessimistic but being realistic instead. When somebody is trying to just figure themselves it would be hard to add another personality to the equation.

One day, when you least expect it, you'll get your monoclopolypse. [Lowers voice, leans in] I just hope it's worth it.




No 'maybe' about it. That 'potentially' is important. Again, it's no guarantee, and nor is a lack of 'offness' a guarantee that an individual is trustworthy and of good intention.

I think it depends on all sorts of things. I mean, I consider people as 'off', and seek to avoid them. I think a lot of it is pre-/unconscious, and it comes down to people not following certain social signals and etiquette (especially hard on us autists). I think it's taken as dangerous, because it shows a disregard for/rejection of basic social rules. An 'off' person has (seemingly) put themselves outside of social/civic bounds and discourse.

For example, if someone can't be trusted to not violate my personal space, can they be trusted to not physically attack me? Why would someone intrude upon my personal space if not as a precursor (getting themselves worked up, getting me flustered) to a physical attack?

Now, if I stop and think it through, and look for other evidence and consider other options, I may see, 'ah, it's One Of Us, maybe I should politely correct their behaviour', or what have you. But it can be very hard to take that time, and very hard to ignore my instinct to put distance between myself and the space invader.

i think i get it now. i do show "a disregard for/rejection of [certain] basic social rules", but i'm very conscious of personal space (mine or anybody else's), much more so than the average person. except i don't react openly to what i sense as violations of my personal space. i simply get away from the person and avoid them

in other words, i do break social rules a lot, but i mostly do it in ways that don't affect anybody else. i take karma seriously. not leaving a (traceable) footprint behind is usually a priority for me. not just rationally, but way beyond rational. if i feel like someone is upset in any way because of me, i need to fix it. i just need to. except, instinctively speaking (morals aside), making it not be my fault is equally valid and acceptable and effective as a way to "fix it" as it would be if i actually found a way to make the person feel better

...and that's not good for relationships

i'm struggling with it right now. i miss my ex a lot, but that's not really what bothers me. it's kinda nice actually. i never really missed anyone or any time of my life before. what bothers me deeply is that when i miss her, i picture her, and then i wonder how she's doing, and chances are she's not doing well (assuming she's alive. she nearly killed herself once in front of me, and more than once while talking to me. she's a terribly self-destructive person). and i feel responsible. i "need" to contact her and make sure i'm not (held) responsible (thanks a lot, mom, for teaching me to be like this)

so, by far, the main reason why i'm "pessimistic" about relationships is because i know i have a very strong tendency toward codependency. and i really want to avoid repeating this pattern. emotionally, i'm actually more hopeful and optimistic about relationships than i should be, and that's part of where my inner conflict comes from. i know i need to trick my codependent side into accepting rational decisions, and it takes a ridiculously huge amount of mental gymnastics to arrive at acceptable compromises

A fulfilling relationship.

that's only one of the possible answers though. it's a special case of something else

maybe "togetherness". it sounds intuitive as an antonym. and, just like the concept of loneliness is an abstraction which doesn't necessarily imply being alone (and isn't a direct consequence of being alone), the concept of togetherness is also an abstraction (it concerns subjectivity rather than objectivity), and, similarly, i guess it doesn't necessarily imply being in the presence of anyone (and isn't a direct consequence of being in the presence of anyone). and a sense of togetherness can be attached to a person or a group, but it can also be attached to other things, like a pet, or "nature", or "god", or a project, or what have you

which things or people are acceptable and effective as the object of "togetherness" will be directly tied to someone's sense of identity. if a person's only idea of togetherness is with a partner (real or imagined) that they could never have, or a group that they could never be part of, or a god they can't believe in, or a project they could never undertake, and so on, then the only possible solution is to change their identity

Lot of generalizations here. I really don't by into the idea that men aren't picky, or lack standards. Humans can be picky and men are no exception. We some may delude ourselves into taking the moral high ground when they are no better than then next.

Most people who are upset on L&D want an relationship, not just sex. However sex is part of the majority of relationships. Both men and women are sexual beings with the exception of asexual.

I think it is two things:

1. Very little or no experience of relationships, it is a golden chalice.
2. Lack of social skills, social awareness plus anxiety issues.

It is bad to start to resent what you don't have, but it is human nature.

Although it doesn't make mathamatical sense that one gender would do worse in dating overall, it could make sense that one gender within a demographic might be lees successful at dating in the wider world. So it is entirely possible the ASD men are less successful at obtaining relationships than ASD women, statistically speaking. However this might be a different picture as far as maintaining relationships.

I think what really throws autists are the meta-rules. The rules that say how seriously a given social rule is to be treated, and when it can be bent or broken.

It's not just knowing the rules. It's knowing when to ignore them.

I think this gives us two of our autist stereotypes. The one who doesn't understand some things are Simply Not Done, who has no sense of social norms and interplay and expectations beyond any basic observations, and the one who has spent time discerning the rules, and has a very clear sense of them, but doesn't know or see the meta-rules. So they rigidly abide by the 'official' rules, so appearing stiff and formal. Both lack the (seemingly instinctive in NTs) knack for discerning what social rules are at play, and how they are to be treated, how much one can bend them, test them. Both will seem 'off'.



'This Be The Verse', eh?

Is there a particular reason you can't reach out to her? Or is in part because it will be to reassure yourself you're not 'responsible'?



Ah. Yeah, I feel like I've got all my AS weirdnesses, but (with the right person, which it would have to be anyway) accomodations can be made with those sorts of things. It's the psychological issues that throw a spanner in the works. I feel, tentatively, that I've made some progress, untangled some of the knots and soothed some of the neuroses, but I wouldn't really want to reach out and look for a relationship until I'm situationally and psychologically in a better, stronger place.

Maybe it's like the idea (which I'll now worry I've just made up) that the recovering addict or depressive is most in danger just as they feel an improvement.



I thought that as soon as I wrote it. I tried to find a gif to flesh out the reference, but I had a dog to wash.

i was thankfully ignorant about it at first (or else there wouldn't have a been a relationship to speak of), but i have no reason to believe that the good times weren't an anomaly. she's a master of catch-22's, and she's an extremely resentful dependent type: doesn't offer much, demands a lot (including both your undivided attention and "freedom from you" at the same time), takes you for granted, denies everything, and gets offended when you confront her about it (she didn't use to deny it, and she used to express a willingness to change it. that's what gradually changed about her. she started to embrace her entitlement). the more dependent she feels, the more frustratingly destructive she gets

she's the type of person you need to constantly talk to your friends about to confirm that you're not crazy. the only way she knows how to take responsibility for anything is by making you feel bad for how guilty she feels (and then getting offended that "you're patronizing her" when you try to be sympathetic and cut her some slack). my last communication with her was a deliberate act of burning bridges, and i specifically told her to not contact me again and to just leave me be ("or else"... and she knows how mean i can be when i don't censor myself)

the person i miss doesn't exist anymore. she has made her choice. she wants to be that person she used to say she didn't want to be. it's only distance that makes the heart grow fonder. still, i do honestly wish her well. and i do wish there was a better way to handle this than by total and absolute "no contact", but i don't think there is. it's a practical impossibility. you may love and admire wild beasts and their majestic beauty all you want, but if you want to stay alive, you keep your distance


i think it's unrealistic to expect you'll ever be properly "prepared". it's just not possible to be. you can distract yourself and meditate for a while to process your recent past and learn something from it, but you can't really assess how well prepared you are. sooner or later it comes down to decisions based on blind faith (or lack of it)

[MOD EDIT at poster's request.]

you don't...

worth mentioning btw, as i've said before in other threads, i believe that my ex is also autistic. autistic, and in denial about it. she was more willing to entertain (and often be paranoid about...) the thought of being schizophrenic than the thought of being autistic. her older brother is very visibly autistic and impaired, and she witnessed what it was like to grow up as him. that was probably one of the reasons why she apparently turned into a "popular girl" type almost overnight in middle school

ever since, she's been trying to "find her true self" and then panicking that "her true self" is utterly unacceptable, and that she needs to be "one of the cool kids", and at the same time needs to be "an accomplished adult" (or else... she needs to die. don't ask me how that "logic" works. but that's how it is). so my role constantly alternated between "the one person in the universe who knew her true self" and "the readily available patsy". the latter was the exception at first, but then turned into the rule. she became very critical of the flaws (or alleged flaws) in me that she refused to see in herself

an autistic dead set to appear fully normal is trouble. it's self-loathing embedded as identity. i can easily picture half of all the forum members here (male and female) turning out like her in a relationship (before anyone gets offended, remember i'm not naming names. you may very well be in the "not turning out like her" group, and i'm not necessarily excluding myself from the "turning out like her" group. it's certainly not set in stone)

Interesting. Thanks for sharing all of that, anagram, and, I think I recall you making mention of your ex. I'm still processing the content of your post...

I'll never be "popular." And I'm content with that.

[MODERATOR]

Just a reminder, folks, but negative sexist generalizations are not permitted on WP.

[/MODERATOR]

I think the opposite of loneliness is :
A genuine accepting and safe friendship where you can be yourself,without judgement

Because of our social hangups, it's more difficult to find/maintain a relationship than our non-spectrum counterparts.