Is this really too much to ask

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Yep......it's hard for me to tell somebody I love them, but it's even harder to tell them I don't. But if you want to move on, it's kinder to pull the plug than to just let things ride.


Guilt. I know that feeling, in that very context.

It seems a strange thing for her to do - end the relationship, try to explain why, and then hang onto you when you argue back. Sounds like neither of you can quite get up to escape velocity. I'd be very tempted to just thank her for her opinion of the incompatibility, and agree, if I really wanted out. At least you don't get the guilt. But an inability to end relationships that need ending is a scary trait. One relationship of mine felt precarious because the lady had a similar history of inertia....I didn't feel I could trust her to tell me if her faith in me as her man began to collapse, or give me a chance to put right whatever I might be doing wrong.


They often do come back. But if you spend the rest of your life being so passive about it, your love life will always be drifting.


It feels much the same as with a fat one, I think.

It might be something you need to get out of your system by giving it a try. With me, I never noticed any correlation between their looks and how quickly or deeply I fell in love with them. It was always magical, some less than others, but I don't know what made the difference.


I'm an Aspie and my social status isn't high, but I feel that way. Getting a looker or two didn't change anything apart from impressing a couple of colleagues who were surprised at my apparent pulling power, but those relationships were very fraught.

Yes......it's weird how you seem to be a magnet for grumpy lard. I'd expect an easy-going girl would by definition be more approachable. If they're not even acting cute during the early courtship, it's perhaps not surprising you haven't felt all that romantic.


OK. But it's the way you're heading....you've only got to be "lucky" once. Imagine how guilty you'll feel when you have to tell your NZ friend what's happened. She'll be out in the cold, you'll be nice and warm. Even running your wishes and your progress past her (which I guess she has a right to know about) is going to feel very cruel. Assuming I've read the situation right.

I've spent the past little while reading this forum and thought I'd add my two cents.

Roman, it seems that though you are not picky in your preference for a mate, it kind of seems like a lot for a woman to put up with, and so kinda narrows your options. Hear me out first, like I'm young, but I know you're in physics and I've seen this a lot in physics undergrad.

For a woman to be in a relationship with you, she would have to:

1) put up with poor hygiene, unless you improve on that
2) understand why you spend hours upon end on physics instead of paying attention to her, and so have at least some sort of interest in physics or respect your career
3) have a non-sexual relationship until marriage, which may require some sort of religious belief
4) initiate any non-sexual intimate contact, which is counter to societal norms. A lot of women like to feel pursued by men, as if the male is willing to compete for her attention, and that includes the man showing expressions of love without her having to initiate it
5) listen to stories about your exes early on in the relationship, as if you were still hung up on your past and not interested in your new possible relationship
6) listen to you bemoan your ability to get woman while you are in a relationship with them. This makes women feel as if you are not seeing the woman right in front of you who is interested in you at the moment, and instead are still looking for another woman to come along. Women like to feel as if they are the only woman on your mind
7)be respectful of your relationship with your mother. By that I'm talking about how you say your mother is controlling of you. That would put off probably many women who want a man who is independent and can provide for them. You expressed lament at women controlling your life, so maybe there is something that goes deeper and requires counseling, but if you are unhappy with your situation, you might have to change it to attract someone. Women want to know that you are willing to stick up for them through thick and thin, regardless of what your parents say.

so... I'm not saying it's not possible to find a woman, but you have to work on your own life and find inner happiness in order to attract someone who sees the best in you. Often times, the best mates are not found through looking for a mate, they are a result of circumstance when two people's paths collide by chance. You could try volunteering in church events, or attending more physics conferences, but try to work on aspects of your life that you want to change first and foremost, then just trust that when the right person comes along, you will know. But I'd say instead of looking for a mate and seeing them as the be-all and end-all, which comes across as very desperate, try to attend events that you would want to attend regardless of your search. Then if you find someone, great, if not, at least you had fun.

Sorry if I'm too harsh, these are just my observations and I could be perfectly wrong.

EDIT: Also, about physical preferences, as it was said, most people have them. But the important thing is not to deceive anyone or lead them on while you are looking for another mate. If you are not happy with dating overweight women, be honest with yourself instead of leading someone on while you are actually unhappy inside. It will show and make the other person feel self-conscious and more unhappy.

Though overweight women are just as lovely.

Okay this is the EXACT point where Anne is wrong. Why does the fact that my mom control me imply that I am not independent? What it implies is that MY MOM THINKS I am not independent. But if my mom THINKS something it doesn't mean it is true. For example, if it is left completely up to me then I would not be calling my mom AT ALL for months and months. BUT the problem is that once a week or two passes by, she starts sending me emails saying that she is worried about me. Now if she sends one or two simple emails I oftentimes don't respond either (not because I am trying not to respond but for a simple fact that I am more busy worrying about other things so I put it off and then forget) but then she starts sending me stronger emails like saying how she is REALLY worried and/or saying she has something "very important" to tell me but conveniently doesn't mention what it is so that I want to call her to find out. Now you see how it is HER and not ME?

So in order for Anne to conclude from this that I am not independent and need "sheltering" she has to basically say that I am wrong in my self-assessment that I am not require interation with my mom and that in reality I do because "my mom knows better". But the fact is that my mom doesn't "know better" my mom has her own preconceptions that were built in for several years. For example, back in 2004 when I was taking a train to go to orientation session in the new school I had a connection on my ticket and my mom was thinking I would forget I have that connection. My mom was also thinking I would forget to look up the name of the hotel they wanted me to stay. Now I know for a fact I won't do either of these two things. I simply KNOW that WHEN I have to go somewhere I will get all the info so just because my mom expects me to get it in advance and I don't, it doesn't mean I won't get it last minute. But my mom doesn't realize it and so SHE BELIEVES I need sheltering but she is wrong.

Or here is another example. So my mom wanted me to go to the gym, and I told her that there is a gym at the institute where I am at right now with weights. So, naturally, I was assuming my mom would be happy about it after all she was the one who wanted me to go. But no: when I told her it is about weights all of a sudden she thinks it would be bad for me to lift them. Now her excuse is my scoliosis. But it is just an excuse. I mean suppose on my place there was a man who actually looks like a man. In this case even if he had scoliosis or what not it wouldn't be so "obvious" that he can't lift weights. In my case I don't look like a man, so intuitively she knows I can't lift weights and then in order to rationalize it she refers to my scoliosis. Now to be fair it is true that I don't have muscles and if you were to ask me to arm wrestle with someone I would almost certainly lose. But thats something *I* know, not my mom. So why does my mom jumps to conclusions without having the info? Besides, when I pushed my mom on the issue she also mentioned I would break or dislocate something if I try to lift weights and this is simply not true.

Now these are just two examples I thought of this second. But the fact is that my interaction with my mom is FILLED with them. Right now that I am in India I call her perhaps every other week (and like I said the ONLY reason I call her is because of her pestering me with emails). So with the limited interaction I have with her it goes relatively smooth. But then when I visit her there will always be some surprise. Like the last time I visitted her when I was flying back to India there were two possible ways to combine my fly back with a certain conference. Basically my mom insisted on the option when I would have one more sleepless night but one less connection. In other words she believes that having connections is even worse than sleepless nights since I might forget about a connection. Well taht was quite a surprise. After spending over decade flying with different connections without any problem all of a sudden I am surprised to learn that actually my mom still believes I can miss connections. Or another example: my mom visitted me in India and she was too scared to go somewhere at 7 PM because it was dark. So I said I will go to that store or wherever but she was too scared to let me go there too. Well the fact is that when my mom is not there I keep coming home at 10 PM as a regular schedule so why is she all of a sudden scared if I come home at 7 PM?

Now going back to Anne: why should she use the above examples as evidence that I am not independent if in fact I don't require the kind of sheltering described above?

From financial point of view, the time period when my mom supported me financially was 2006 --2009; in light of the fact taht I met Anne in 2005 this is irrelevent. Furthermore, during 2009 -- 2012 it is likewise irrelevent since I am getting salary in India; granted, it is only 400 dollars but India is cheap so its a lot by Indian standards.



You are right, at least in case of Anne. She approached me in math class we were both taking and she was by far better than any other girl I ever had. Thats why it is so sad I blew it by telling her about my mom.

Sounds like a rough situation, but I can understand. Are you sticking up for yourself when your mother tries to control your life? She does realize that you are capable of taking care of yourself, right?

It's not just independance, people read things about how you relate to women from your relationship with your mom. In your example many would assume you'd be passive-aggressive or a doormat in a relationship.

Well for one thing she didn't want me to leave home to go to graduate school (even though I went within USA) but I left home anyway. Also she didn't want me to go to India either, but I still went.

Regarding the examples I gave I was TRYING to stick up but it was a bit more difficult. I mean suppose my mom tries to remind me of X. I would yell and scream at her BEFORE she gets a chance to remind me in order to prevent her from saying it. Despite my telling her for 5 minutes she will still try to remind me by saying ''I know you remember it but do you remembmer this detail''. Then when she is done reminding me I am pointing out to her how simple it was and ask her why she did it. Then she appologizes and say she won't do it again. I then piont out to her that she does it over and over, and bring examples such as the ones discussed in previous reply. She then tries to tell me that all moms are like that. I disagree with her but she keeps denying that she is more overprotective than other moms. Or if I insist on bringing more and more examples then she would eventually say that its pointless to discuss who said what a long time ago. But to me its not pointless because its the number one thing that makes me look like a child.



No she does not realize this and thats the problem.

Here is another example. So during the time I visitted her in the winter she left me a food in the refrigirator when she went to work. I told her that I will find the food but she INSISTED to show me where it is telling me that it is ''very difficult'' for ''anyone'' to find anything in her refrigirator. Now guess what: the food that she left was at the closest part on the most visible shelf. Like when you open the fridge thats the FIRST thing you would see even if you were not told about it! But she was thinking I won't be able to find it.

I mean what can I possibly do to prove her wrong? The most I can do is not call her often to get her used to it. I guess it somewhat works when I am away so at times I would THINK that finally she knows I am an adult. But then when I visit her I get surprises such as the above.

Here is how Anne interpretted it (for the rest of the text of this email as well as other emails see http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt5922.html):



She thought I would be EXPECTING her to do the same as what my mom/ my ex did. But why would I be expecting it if thats the number one thing I hate. In case of my mom I prefer to be as far from her as I can. In case of my ex (Sarah) that was the number one reason I ended contact with her. So why would I be expecting Anne to do something I just ran away from?

It's in the nature of passive-aggressive to become resentful. That's why it's called passive-aggressive, because the person is agreeable on the surface, but harbours this seething resentment of the situation and blames the other person, becoming aggressive in subtle ways or blaming them etc. But not assertive enough to make any change in the relationship except perhaps by shutting it down.

I think edgewaters puts it nicely.

But accept that you cannot change who your mother is or what she thinks. You can only change how you deal with it.

Perhaps a couple of sessions of counseling would help you be more assertive around women. If you could discuss the other issues that you have finding women with a counselor as well, perhaps it would be helpful.

I guess it is true I am passive agressive to some extend but not other. For example, when my mom visits me I don't have balls to tell her not to even though I don't want her around. On the other hand, if my mom tries to give me detailed directions then I DO stand up to her and in fact try to have long arguments with her as to why she does that. So I guess I am passive agressive with respect to former and not the latter.

But in either case, in Anne's letter she never mentioned passive aggression. What she DID mention was that she was worried that if she were to date me I would expect her to shelter me in the same way my mom did. This seems to imply I enjoy sheltering, in contrast to passive agressive ppl who don't enjoy the item in question.

That is actually why I am so much upset aobut it because it feels like miscommunication I couldn't correct. If she were to write about passive aggression I wouldn't be neary as upset because in this case, at least, it would have been true.

But even if I respond differently the fact remains that I am being judged by how my mom treats me.

So far, towards your mother and this other girlfriend you had, it sounds like you take a position of being both helpless and resentful. Not exactly what women are looking for in a relationship with a man.

You sound very much like me. In principle I welcome criticism, and am happy to critique myself to myself without mercy, and I take pride in my "depressive realism" which refuses to shy away from any suspicion that I may be wrong about a thing, but if somebody else criticises me, well for some bizarre reason I've never met anybody yet who has made an atom of sense to me in that way. And from that I've started to see how my own bluntness can make people feel threatened. It doesn't feel like it, but it's because it's somebody else other than me who is bringing the bad news. It's like the difference between me autonomously multi-tasking on my own terms (choosing how, when, where, why and what I multi-task), and having somebody multi-tasking me (telling me how, when, where, why and what I am to multi-task). Mostly I don't trust them to know what they're talking about, and quite often I'm right. But I always hang onto criticisms, however stupid they seem at the time, and seek to test them, though it can be some time before I feel like doing that.

I've really no idea if she's right about you being too controlled by your mum or not, but it's clear that you can stand up to her at times, and it's pretty normal for people to be very reluctant to tell others that they'd rather they didn't visit.

I think loneliness is often the biggest problem. If not for that, you could date occasionally and keep things casual, and let her find out for herself if you meet her needs in real life, and if not, move on without any great angst on either side. But lonely people seem to get involved so readily that they can get badly hurt, or they'll hang on when it's obvious it's not going to work. Like a job interview, if you're confident and they turn you down, well it's their loss and you just chalk it up to experience....if you aren't confident, you will spend months agonising about what is wrong with you, how they could reject you like that, etc.

Answer: No I meant company as girlfriend status.





Good, it makes a ton of difference, no problems here then






You seem to know exactly what some of your problems are. That's fantastic, actually. If you have even ONE friend, I'd suggest talking to him/her. Friends are good to put us under perspective.





Good places: University, Starbucks-like places, join book clubs (offer a pretty girl a coffee, classic... takes courage... I'm shy and might spend an entire day without being able to, but I'm persistent)





You're fine moneywise.





Yes you can, by what I've seen. Can I suggest, theoretical physics and science as possible topics, like Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins (biology, but you get the idea), Fritjot Capra etc? I've used them with some success in the past. Also, get ONE topic outside physics. One is something I can manage, at least: literature (romantics), movies whatever.





GET CLEAN before going on dates, simple enough






Girls like attention. I tend to isolate them also... but make an effort. Like, do physics for 3 hours, but watch a movie with her.


Ok. Those are suggestions that worked for me.

Wish you the best!
Mike.

If that was Anne's reason for rejecting me I won't feel nearly as bad since at least thats the truth. But she rejected me for the fact that I WANT to be sheltered. And that is very different from "passive and resentful". In other words, what you are saying about me is true, but what she said is not.



Once again IF she were to say that I was being controlled by my mom then she would at least partly be right so I won't be as angry. But the problem is that its not what she said. She assumed I either WANT or REQUIRE the kind of care my mom gives, and that is simply wrong.

From what I've seen, 'normal' girls are absolutely awful. You're better off this way, dude.