Just never even had the chance...

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ElysianDream
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30 Nov 2009, 4:42 am

How do you 'make chances' or opportunities when you feel you're never even given the chance?

I'm 23 and have not had any romantic relationship whatsoever. I blame a number of factors for this, but they all seem to stem from a lack of opportunities.

1. The severity of my sociophobia, anxiety disorder and possible OCD in high school. I had no real friends, was anxious/very shy alot of the time, and spent most of my time in the library. I was not comfortable around people esp girls. My dating skills did not develop naturally at a young age like most people, so even now intimacy scares me a little bit.

2. Though my social skills have improved alot, I still never felt very attractive. I'm not bad looking (maybe not to the taste of some), but I think I look too young and am not a classic ideal of manhood :roll:

3. I had/have several female friends, but I wasn't really romantically interested in them (although I wouldn't have said no to a couple). I'm not gay, but I think I get along with women well (not saying that this is weird for straight guys or anything of course lol).

4. I've tried internet dating, but I've only been on about 3 dates, which ended in friendship or after the 1st or second date. I have to send out like 100 requests/messages to get even 1 date and it gets tiresome and discouraging.

5. I go out to pubs/clubs etc now and then, but while can enjoy just letting my hair down I find it a terrible place for dating, unless you're looking for a drunken one night stand. Even when i have the confidence to start something nothing usually comes from it. Although I admit I haven't pushed myself enough.

Outside of that I've tried to get involved in more social events/circles, but I find most women aren't even interested in being friends. I make small talk etc but they seem uninterested in even being friends.

So I guess I'm in a bit of a dilemma. The older I get the more alienated I feel from normal society/dating culture. As pathetic as it sounds I'm tempted to lie about it, because most women would think someone my age with no experience is laughable (even if they say it's 'sweet' etc). Of course there are exceptions but they are definitely exceptions.

Be grateful for any input, advice, similar stories, anything. Thanks all, ED.



jamesongerbil
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30 Nov 2009, 5:59 am

well, bars and the internet seem to be the worst place to find a serious date. truly. what you see is rarely what you get.
i imagine some of those girls at bars and such want the big, tough man-guy to sweep them off their feet all charismatic-like. i don't know, though, since i'm not one of those girls. when people try that one on me it gets real awkward.....fast. yeah.... haha. i don't know, i'm friends with guys who haven't had a relationship yet. at least one of my guy friends hasn't had a real relationship. it's not easy, since there has to be a feeling of friendship in the first place, although our culture seems to place lust above that. there are also the cultural barriers for men and women, too, unfortunately. like, guys have to be this way (so the women tend to look for that sort of guy sometimes) and women are that way (and are therefore considered attractive, but not always). i think i've been unusually lucky in finding random guys to date. two were kind of ... well... terrible high school things, and three actually had meaning. none were really abusive, but there were definite personality clashes. it doesn't quite help the relationship that i'm an aggressive female, but it certainly helped me get guys, so i don't know. :?: :roll: at least with the man i'm with now, our personality fits perfectly. a rarity from what i see.

i seriously wouldn't worry about your looks. it's certainly important for a man to look decent, as far as hygiene goes, but even ugly guys can get girls due to their skills, charisma, etc. so, it's really no big deal. i suppose a reputation of being good in the sack helps, but that is only what the media says. what i think it's trying to say is that by being self confidant, you will get far. thus, i think that confidence is the key.

well, you are obviously out of high school. try establishing yourself in the social groups first. say, for example, if i were to go to hillel all of a sudden (my current hang-out spot) and start focusing on just a group of boys (that i would like, hypothetically), that probably wouldn't go to well. (i mean, they wouldn't even know me!) but, the more i show up (in real life) and, by extension, establish myself (on the couch :) ), the more people would know of me and accept me. it happened like that. just started sitting on the couch and reading things. it's really nice. and, because it's college, it doesn't matter if i'm a bit odd. are you in college?
oh oh, one other thing... once you do get established in your favorite group (ie the one you are most comfortable with) then you can go to events, meet ladies, and maybe even start a romantic relationship with one. once you get yourself established, it would be more known to your new friends that you have some anxiety/social issues. so, as long as they are accepting, i doubt it would be a problem? i mean, they'd probably pick up on it from your body language -- you don't have to say anything if you don't want to.

wow, long post. well, i hope this helps! :wink:



roadGames
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30 Nov 2009, 6:09 am

Barring that you're obese, what you should do is dress up well (nothing fancy, but you know, take a shower, do something about your hair, and wear some fashionable clothes) and go out to a mall. Make eye contact and flash a friendly smile to at least 50 women and say hi to the ones that look friendly. Make sure to have relaxed, open body language. Check your shoulders! A common aspie thing is to tense them up (I remember in freshman year of college I had a good friend ask me why I always look like I have a stick up my ass [he put it in a different way, but that's what he meant]). Never put your hands in your pockets unless it's cold out, and if you must, put your thumbs in your back pockets.

Once you get comfortable with this, start trying to have conversations with the girls (if you already haven't, because you're likely to get some that linger around after the initial greeting). Once you get good at that, just straight up tell the girl you approach that you think she's adorable (your body language will be decent by this point and you'll know which ones look receptive/friendly) and you're going to set the course for the rest of the interaction. Eventually, you're going to get some phone numbers (don't ask for the phone number, just straight up point it at them and ask for the digits, it never fails), which if you do things in a non-needy, casual manner is going to land you some dates. The first few times you do this, even if you do pull one number, do not stop. Keep going until you get at least several because women do not place a premium on giving out numbers, and you will most likely get flaked on by a few.

This is a lot harder than it looks and will take you a while.



techstepgenr8tion
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30 Nov 2009, 6:15 am

Three words: join the club. I had similar problems, though it was mainly that through highschool there was no one I was interested in who had interest back, I'd have interest from new women that would fizzle out within a week once they got to know me. The same happened through my early and mid 20's, even after putting in an almost superhuman amount of work on myself by the time I was 22. After that, while I did have some more realistic takers, I saw that personalities weren't communicating and that my social polish and almost flawless NT act have a price - I can match social veneers with people great, then again I still get the apprehension that all hell would break loose if they saw the neurological/genetic 'real' me.

At this point I'm out of college, have had some limited luck with Eharmony (though I'll admit - most of the time they contact me, when I go through the lists I rarely if ever see anyone that I'd want to contact), I've been on a few dates but realize that chemistry is very difficult for me to find. So, I'm 30, I'm single, and I have a feeling that at this point my luck isn't going to break; partly because I am playing the defense and needing to see signs of good character right off the top (I do have fear of emotional abuse and I turn away the second I see something in someone that indicates they'd try to muscle me around), need to get a sense that she's alternative enough to actually like a guy who's into the things I'm into, and at the same time - I find myself wanting someone with conservative core values, just not perhaps in an organized religious sense (as that usually makes my interests and general drive in life a problem). For the most part it seems like my own needs are stacking up to the impossible and especially after 30, I think it's going to be pretty dry. Yes, I occasionally see the right types out there but it seems to be maybe once or twice a year at most, it was like that even during college.

My advice to you - just do the best you can with what you have, whether it brings you success or not. If it doesn't you at least have the relief of knowing that you gave it your all to have yourself together, to be in a position to emotionally provide rather than to need, etc. - if that gets passed on then the situation really beyond your own culpability.



Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 30 Nov 2009, 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

roadGames
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30 Nov 2009, 6:17 am

I would say don't put much investment into social circle women until you start fixing up your body language and getting comfortable approaching and attracting women you're attracted to.



roadGames
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30 Nov 2009, 6:21 am

s**t, techstep sounds a bit like me.



sinsboldly
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30 Nov 2009, 10:30 am

roadGames wrote:
Barring that you're obese


so, you think fat girls wouldn't like some smiles and friendliness? I am not talking about preditors that stalk women with poor body image, I am talking about people that don't care if the other person is obese, whether they are or not.

Telling people if they are obese they aren't good enough to even try seems criminal. I realize you are talking about the odds, here, but life doesn't always follow the behaviour you have chosen for yourself, roadGames.

Merle


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ElysianDream
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30 Nov 2009, 11:18 am

sinsboldly wrote:
roadGames wrote:
Barring that you're obese


so, you think fat girls wouldn't like some smiles and friendliness? I am not talking about preditors that stalk women with poor body image, I am talking about people that don't care if the other person is obese, whether they are or not.

Telling people if they are obese they aren't good enough to even try seems criminal. I realize you are talking about the odds, here, but life doesn't always follow the behaviour you have chosen for yourself, roadGames.

Merle


The great thing about life is that there will always be someone at your 'level'. But there are always exceptions to the rule that like only goes with like.



Northeastern292
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30 Nov 2009, 11:31 am

sinsboldly wrote:
roadGames wrote:
Barring that you're obese


so, you think fat girls wouldn't like some smiles and friendliness? I am not talking about preditors that stalk women with poor body image, I am talking about people that don't care if the other person is obese, whether they are or not.

Telling people if they are obese they aren't good enough to even try seems criminal. I realize you are talking about the odds, here, but life doesn't always follow the behaviour you have chosen for yourself, roadGames.

Merle


There are some very attractive girls who are hefty. Sometimes, they have the face of an angel and the brains of a rocket scientist, not to sound like like a creep.



HopeGrows
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30 Nov 2009, 11:46 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
At this point I'm out of college, have had some limited luck with Eharmony (though I'll admit - most of the time they contact me, when I go through the lists I rarely if ever see anyone that I'd want to contact)


Hmmm....my interpretation of your comment is that you don't contact these women because they don't seem attractive enough to you. If that's the case, maybe you should broaden your criteria a bit. My understanding of eHarmony is that they really do focus on matching people based on character and values, rather than superficial characteristics. So if they're finding women who match you on a character level, isn't that a bit more important than looks? It seems like you may want a really decent, kind, giving woman - particularly since you're nervous about a woman's ability and/or willingness to accept your Aspie qualities.

I don't know....I know men tend to be more visually stimulated than women, so attraction is more of an immediate yes/no kind of thing for men. That's kind of sad to me, though because I've fallen for a few guys that were completely unattractive to me at first glance. Maybe a few of these women deserve a second look? Just something to think about....



techstepgenr8tion
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30 Nov 2009, 5:40 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
Hmmm....my interpretation of your comment is that you don't contact these women because they don't seem attractive enough to you. If that's the case, maybe you should broaden your criteria a bit. My understanding of eHarmony is that they really do focus on matching people based on character and values, rather than superficial characteristics. So if they're finding women who match you on a character level, isn't that a bit more important than looks? It seems like you may want a really decent, kind, giving woman - particularly since you're nervous about a woman's ability and/or willingness to accept your Aspie qualities.

I know that's the general idea of what Eharmony is supposed to do, they do have the 29 point algorhythm for personality traits and the psychological profiles are quite accurate. However it does seem like they offer a greater degree of freedom with the matches they send, partly in that I think they'd rather let us see profiles and work it out for ourselves - which is good and in a sense I don't mind that. The reason I can't get into most of the profiles though is just what I mentioned; I read the profile and wonder how they ever got matched with me - nothing in common, in many cases it barely seems like I'd have anything in common with them, they may match temprement to an extent - that's about it.

Admittedly I've taken the personality profile twice, the first time when I was 24 and I had a more aspiish introverted kind of result. Had maybe one good match, for the rest of the year what I got was way off point. I retook it at 28 knowing that my outlook had changed considerably, my results were much more mainstream (no deception on my part - its just how I've moved), and while I got a lot more matches and a lot more duds I also got about three or four rather good matches that I did progress to meeting up with and going out on dates. The problem that I found of course - even if you could love a person to death in regard to their personality, unfortunately there is a threshold when it comes to physical chemistry and its not something I can call. When your not attracted to someone, every action of romance is like pushing two positive or negative magnets together - the closer you get the more you feel something repelling you away. As for the girls who's invites I did pass up on, I'll admit I can't do overweight, I can't explain why - it just kills chemistry instantly. On the other hand I did have some very good looking girls as well send messages where, when I looked at their profiles, they were minimal aside from saying that they were really into sports, hiking, outdoor activities, which is fine if they at least have an artistic or creative inclination as well - nope, no match. Even if a girl is drop-dead gorgeous I can't see the point in talking to someone where I see no commonality, I can give it a chance to a point but a lot of times when I did and saw the answer to my questions or their 10 must haves and can't stands - they were as out of sync for me as I thought they would be. Trust me, I really try not to be closed minded but often enough its common sense that when you see certain things as well as a lack of others you're looking at someone that yes - you might get along with them socially, they may be great people, but there's no chance for romance. Its almost a bit suspect as well if they see a completely different world than theirs and still want to pursue, mainly in that it seems like the only direction that can possibly go is toward a symbiotic relationship - something I want absolutely no part in.

HopeGrows wrote:
I don't know....I know men tend to be more visually stimulated than women, so attraction is more of an immediate yes/no kind of thing for men. That's kind of sad to me, though because I've fallen for a few guys that were completely unattractive to me at first glance. Maybe a few of these women deserve a second look? Just something to think about....

Trust me, its annoying - mainly because I strike out with myself just as if not more often than I strike out with women. I'm sure women have to have plenty of experience with this as well; meeting a guy who should be right for them but nothing triggers chemistry and for as much as people tought personality - which they should - a certain minimum of chemistry is a must. After all, if you try to stay with someone and you can't feel it, doing things for them and being a proper boyfriend/girlfriend is practically impossible. The urge to do great things for another person can't be a chore, if it is there's a problem. I know that I have a tendency (partly from what I've been through in life but partly by nature) to be reticent when it comes to relationships; ie. I need to feel it in order to summon the energy to do the right things and to be able to treat someone the way I'd want to treat them - otherwise I will get bored, distant, it will show sooner or later when my energy is spent and I can't hold the charade any longer. With some of these girls I met IRL, I really hoped that chemistry would in fact spark after the second or third date, a few were borderline and iffy, and I found out later that it just took a nose dive - nothing they could do about it and nothing I could do either for that matter.



Icewolf
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30 Nov 2009, 7:37 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
roadGames wrote:
Barring that you're obese


so, you think fat girls wouldn't like some smiles and friendliness? I am not talking about preditors that stalk women with poor body image, I am talking about people that don't care if the other person is obese, whether they are or not.

Telling people if they are obese they aren't good enough to even try seems criminal. I realize you are talking about the odds, here, but life doesn't always follow the behaviour you have chosen for yourself, roadGames.

Merle


No BS'ing...it would be very hard to find someone who would in our superficial culture. Definitely not impossible though.

I view obesity as one of those "controllable" elements. Losing the weight would not only be beneficial to your health but also would boost your confidence and sex appeal. I've seen people who were obese to the point where they had a cut a hole in the wall to get them out of the house. I've seen these same people return to a near-normal weight after a long, arduous, yet still very possible endeavor.



ElysianDream
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04 Dec 2009, 6:50 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Three words: join the club. I had similar problems, though it was mainly that through highschool there was no one I was interested in who had interest back, I'd have interest from new women that would fizzle out within a week once they got to know me. The same happened through my early and mid 20's, even after putting in an almost superhuman amount of work on myself by the time I was 22. After that, while I did have some more realistic takers, I saw that personalities weren't communicating and that my social polish and almost flawless NT act have a price - I can match social veneers with people great, then again I still get the apprehension that all hell would break loose if they saw the neurological/genetic 'real' me.

At this point I'm out of college, have had some limited luck with Eharmony (though I'll admit - most of the time they contact me, when I go through the lists I rarely if ever see anyone that I'd want to contact), I've been on a few dates but realize that chemistry is very difficult for me to find. So, I'm 30, I'm single, and I have a feeling that at this point my luck isn't going to break; partly because I am playing the defense and needing to see signs of good character right off the top (I do have fear of emotional abuse and I turn away the second I see something in someone that indicates they'd try to muscle me around), need to get a sense that she's alternative enough to actually like a guy who's into the things I'm into, and at the same time - I find myself wanting someone with conservative core values, just not perhaps in an organized religious sense (as that usually makes my interests and general drive in life a problem). For the most part it seems like my own needs are stacking up to the impossible and especially after 30, I think it's going to be pretty dry. Yes, I occasionally see the right types out there but it seems to be maybe once or twice a year at most, it was like that even during college.

My advice to you - just do the best you can with what you have, whether it brings you success or not. If it doesn't you at least have the relief of knowing that you gave it your all to have yourself together, to be in a position to emotionally provide rather than to need, etc. - if that gets passed on then the situation really beyond your own culpability.


I've already graduated University so I think that boat has sailed :? . I did have friends from uni I hung out with, but they weren't exactly the lady-killin' type :P . I don't have a job yet, so perhaps that might open up some opportunities. I should mention that while I have friends I generally see them on a one-to-one basis so that vetos the whole 'going out in a group' situation. Generally when I try to approach girls by myself them seem friendly at first then it gets awkward (to be honest I've only done this about three or four times ever). I've been talked to by women a handful of times, but on no occasion did it feel like the right type to try for it. As it is, I'm just passively waiting for the opportunity. I know I should be out their aggressively creating opportunities for myself but it's hard to be all gung-ho about it when you've been treated like nothing all your life. :cry: