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therange
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15 Dec 2009, 7:14 pm

I hear NTs saying this a lot about sex. My NT guy friend has slept with 15 women. He isn't particularly great looking and isn't one of those pick-up artists, and he says "It just happened." He also doesn't pick up women in bars. So how does it just happen? You have to go to the store to buy condoms, in other words, the guy KNOWS he wants sex, and you have to make a move on a woman and assume that she wants sex.

I'll never be the kind of guy to just go to the store, buy condoms, go on a date with a girl and undo her pants. While some women might like that, the majority don't.

My question I guess is, how often in your experience do people form a connection, talk about what they want and what they're expecting out of the sex before they have sex? Maybe the moment itself isn't planned, but what I'm saying is, it is unreasonable to want the two people to have a brief discussion about what exactly they're looking for before the guy even thinks about buying condoms or making a move?



Christophe
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15 Dec 2009, 7:22 pm

I know what you mean, and to me there is nothing wrong with that. I will admit that most of my experiences with women have been the "it just kind of happened" type. I am always prepared and carry a couple of condoms just in case. You never know what may happen or how your night may end. It may be off putting for some girls, but if she really wants it to go farther than it already has, she will understand. I have been in your shoes before, so I can feel where you are coming from.



therange
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15 Dec 2009, 7:39 pm

Yes, but I'm not talking about men and women that are looking for a one night stand, I'm talking about a man and a woman hanging out (who've never had sex before or discussed it) or a man and a woman on a date, and the guy makes the move, takes off her pants, and the girl obliges.



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15 Dec 2009, 7:52 pm

Its my opinion that most people are fairly uncomfortable to talk about sex, you can see most people squirm and get really uncomfortable when the topic is brought up. So, no I dont think most people want to have a conversation about what hasnt happened yet when it comes to sex. That aside most of the women I know lose interest when its talked about first. I was just talking with a girl friend the other day who was in an intimate situation with a guy and once he started talking about it it "killed the mood" for her and never happened. In my opinion smart, responsible, and truely interested people talk about expectations of every kind prior, but most people are not all those things. I would just say do what you are comfortable with and wait for someone who shares the same mindset, it will more then likely mean more anyway.


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Christophe
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15 Dec 2009, 7:55 pm

That can be a rather nerve wracking experience. I remember that with my ex-wife, we talked about it while we were dating. She told me that she would let me know in her own little way (and if I didn't get it, she would just outright say it). I am kinda stumped on this because it is obviously different in this situation for everyone. I really don't know what else to say, but to just outright say something. If you have been with the person a while, I say bring the subject up in a comfortable/non-invasive way for them. To be honest, it all comes down to you, and when you feel you are ready to talk to the person about it. Either way, it won't be easy, but it is best just to get it out there and over with.



Christophe
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15 Dec 2009, 8:00 pm

Thanks for clearing that up for me on my part. I think that maybe I misunderstood the original post. I think that I need to pay more attention. Thanks for putting that out there.



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15 Dec 2009, 8:06 pm

Range, you'd better not just undo your date's pants - that is definitely dangerous behavior, because if you've misinterpreted what she wants, you could be committing a crime.

I think you've hit on a big problem for Aspies, though...understanding the (often subtle) signals between two people that can indicate a readiness for intimacy.

There's a couple of different options I can think of...you may have more luck "broadcasting" your intent as part of your online dating efforts....that may be the easiest and least embarrassing way to communicate your interest in some kind of non-committed, sexual fling.

Or if you're actually dating a young lady that you'd like to have as a gf (including having sex), you just might want to tell her (at some point when you think there might be a mutual interest in continuing the relationship) that you really aren't adept at reading signals, so if there ever comes a time when she's ready for a physical relationship, you'll leave it up to her to actually tell you - using words. I don't think she'd be intimidated or creeped out by that approach, as long as you make it clear that the decision will be completely hers.

Oh, and go to the freaking drugstore and get some condoms....they take a while to expire, so you can keep them, and be prepared should the occasion present itself.



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15 Dec 2009, 8:13 pm

therange wrote:
I hear NTs saying this a lot about sex. My NT guy friend has slept with 15 women. He isn't particularly great looking and isn't one of those pick-up artists, and he says "It just happened." He also doesn't pick up women in bars. So how does it just happen? You have to go to the store to buy condoms, in other words, the guy KNOWS he wants sex, and you have to make a move on a woman and assume that she wants sex.


As an NT, maybe he is leaving out all of the non-verbal communication that flies back and forth in a pick-up situation like this. Not many women just passively go along with it, if a date progresses to sexual activity. Usually, there is mutual attraction, and it is somehow understood that the date will end in the bedroom. This is pure surmise on my part, but I think that this is what is puzzling you about the apparent ease with which this guy picks up women.


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therange
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15 Dec 2009, 8:21 pm

To me, assumption is rape and disgraceful. Going on a date (with someone you've never had sex with before) and trying to take their pants off. To me, it's horrible to go out for dinner with a woman (where it hasn't been discussed before or you've never had sex before) and then try to invite yourself into her house or bring her to your house. I know it's a normal guy thing to do, but I'd rather be perceived as the exception and a gentleman, even if it means not getting any.



therange
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15 Dec 2009, 8:35 pm

I guess my problem is I want the woman to want sex as much as I do...not because she's afraid if she doesn't put out, the guy will get mad, or if she thinks she puts out, she'll trap the guy and he'll fall in love with her. I want a woman that just wants a fun time and some good convo in the sack.



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15 Dec 2009, 8:49 pm

For me (and let's be honest, this is a pretty rare occasion!) it happens by degrees over the course of an evening. And in a way, it does kind of "just happen". It's like first you hold their hand, and if they like that, then you kiss, and if they like that then you snuggle up, and so on. It's kind of apparent from that as you go on that it's what both people want. It's not so much that it comes to a sudden moment of "right, what's happening here?!" I think talking about it is a turn-off in the "heat of the moment", but as one previous poster said, I think it's good to be up front with someone you like and you trust, and just say to them that they need to be clear with you when is the right time for them. But at the same time, if romance is in the air... there's nothing wrong with taking hold of their hand, and seeing what happens. Sometimes saying that you are nervous can be perceived as pretty sweet by the other person, but it depends on their character.

Anyway, don't listen to a word I say, cos I haven't had a great deal of luck on this subject :lol:



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15 Dec 2009, 8:50 pm

What guy around our ages doesn't want that same thing? It is an age old problem that the NT's face with the added spin of having AS. To be honest, I am kind of confused at this point (though I can see where you are coming from). I wish you luck with this situation.



therange
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15 Dec 2009, 8:54 pm

I clarified earlier, Chris. I want the woman to want is AS MUCH AS I DO. I've heard stories where the guy has to convince the woman to have sex by promising commitment, or telling her what she wants to hear. Yes, it takes two to tango, but just because the woman is compliant doesn't mean it's right. She's doing it because she thinks the guy likes him. I've also heard stories, such as in the book The Game, where the guy does a thing called a "freeze-out" where he gets really mad that the girl won't take off her panties when they're fooling around, and he just ignores her, and goes back to fooling around, rinse and repeat, until she finally puts out.

I want a woman that just says "we're two adults, no expectations, let's have a fun time in the sack and I'm not expecting anything more."



Christophe
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15 Dec 2009, 9:04 pm

That is what I was trying to get at. Sheesh. Sometimes I don't even get other Aspies. Any guy that uses the "freeze-out," is a selfish...well, I won't go there. I never read that book. To be honest, I haven't even heard of it until you mentioned it. I agree wholeheartedly with you on the whole no strings attached thing if that is what you are looking for. I just didn't understand your earlier post is all. I apologize for any miscommunications.



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15 Dec 2009, 9:19 pm

therange wrote:
To me, assumption is rape and disgraceful. Going on a date (with someone you've never had sex with before) and trying to take their pants off. To me, it's horrible to go out for dinner with a woman (where it hasn't been discussed before or you've never had sex before) and then try to invite yourself into her house or bring her to your house. I know it's a normal guy thing to do, but I'd rather be perceived as the exception and a gentleman, even if it means not getting any.
Idk, in my experience it's usually my pants that are off first (BJ's :) ). Hers come later.

but pants are usually the last thing to come off anyhow.
better to test the waters first with other less drastic touches and work your way to pants.
start with the basics and work your way up, see what she's okay with.
& what she's okay with doing :wink:

last time i got any it's 'cause she invited me over to watch movies at her house. we watched a few. She got a little tired and lay down & i offered a neck massage. We traded those back and forth. Eventually it got to back massages. Pretty soon it moved to other touching. Then she started touching my crotch through my pants and we started taking off clothes & really started getting down to stuff.

before she even invited me there though, i'd flirted a bit online with her.
so i was fairly sure when this all went down that she wouldn't be entirely opposed when i did start doing stuff.
but it all took an amount of tact that i wasn't used to.
but i just had to move beyond my comfort zone a little was all.

it doesn't "just happen", you gotta make it happen. But try to use some tact, man.
or sometimes SHE makes it happen.
just depends. Either way, invitation to sexual activity usually doesn't just fall from the sky.
Takes a little on somebody's part


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therange
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15 Dec 2009, 9:24 pm

See, I don't want to do the watch boring movies and give neck messages crap. I want a white woman with the brutal honesty of a black woman, and saying "Do you want to come over for a fun time tonight?"