A lack of social presence

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If I can figure this out it might help to solve to overall dating puzzle.

I seem to suffer from a lack of social presence. Here is an example ....

I used to play Texas Holdem poker at Sydney Casino about 30 hours a week as a form of income.
I was quite and kept a low profile.

There were three waitresses and one waiter who serviced the tables.

When ever I would order a drink from the male waiter everything would go smoothly.

The three waitresses were attractive young girls that weren't that bright.
When ever I would order from them there were always problems including ....
- Forgetting my drink all together.

- Coming back with a tray full of drinks serving everybody else and then always having
to ask who ordered the tea.

At first I just ignored it and focused on the poker. But as the months wore on it began to really
anger me.

For example ...
Some fat old business man who had never played before would turn up. I would call the waitress
and order a tea he would then cut in and ask for a coffee.
She would return go straight to him serve the coffee have a laugh and bit of chit chat and then
walk around the table asking who ordered the tea.

Even though she had seen my face every second day for the last six months.
All three women would do it. Over and over again.

I had to go through this ritual many times . So I tried some experiments ...
I tried tipping. - No effect.
I tried to make strong eye contact and say something memorable like nice hair cut. - No effect.
I tried telling her directly. Im sitting in seat x dont forget ! !!. - It helped a few times but not everytime.
I tried getting really angry..
I stood up raised my voice and said how rude youve done that at least 30 times in the last six months
and you never forget any other regular players drink. In fact you know them all by name.
- This just caused the staff and other Alpha males at the table to race to her defense and the whole incident
was forgotten by the next day anyway and she went back to forgetting my drink.

I think it might be some unconcious body language thing but im not really sure.
I know if I get into a lift with a friend the people in the lift always address the friend with there idle chit chat. Never me.
Even if I go out of my way to be friendly and put myself forward there is still a feeling of uneasyness.

In social group situations its like im a non entity with girls.
Does anybody else experience this ?

me also- join the club, brother.

Yes
Many AS are transparent relative to the current social geometry
this is a well known phenomenon and can be explained in many ways but basically it all come down to us having somewhat smaller ego than the average
This can lead to many tragic/comic situations and cause quite a despair and mental problems of the dissociative kind as we get reflected in a way that could distort and mess up our identity quite seriously
especially as at least some of us are also typically very charismatic, good looking and interesting people (small ego make nice and interesting people) so we can oscillate between total transparency to being the focus of attention
it's tough
at least for me

Even though I've known for over two years now that it's a common occurrence for Aspies to be treated as you described, it still amazes me to hear about these experiences most Aspies go through. What you have described is what I've gone through my entire life in regard to how others (perfect example - waitresses!) "forget" or ignore me.

You might find this post interesting: Autistic Superpowers: Invisibility.

I read your link. It was really interesting.

Do you know if anybody has done any research to find out exactly what causes this.
Eye contact, posture, position of stance, clothing ?

I wonder if there is anything I can learn to do to fix it.

The scenario you describe is in a casino environment

Were there perhaps social etiques and rituals that you would have been naieve or absent from following or been aware of? Unspoken rules?

I didn't realize this was happening until you mentioned it. And now that I you mention it this happens to me all the time. I assumed it happens to other people all the time too.

For the majority of social situations I tend to remain in stealth mode and people don't notice me. I often times find myself starting off in the circle of people talking about a topic and then a few moments later I am standing outside of the circle wondering how it happened.

The taking waiter bringing food/drink problem has happened to me everywhere except for my regular place in my home town. Once in a large group the waiter forgot to take my order and walked away with the other orders. I have tried ordering weird things like ordering vast amounts of food and still have the waiter ask who's food it is.

I'm not sure how to be more visible. Are we too polite?

I too start off in a circle of people talking only to end up shortly after standing outside of the circle wondering how it happened.

I'm beginning to suspect that it is not by accident that Aspies are invisible, especially since it happens to so many. I shall borrow a statement from a book I read, which I think sums up the reason behind this experience of Aspies being invisible:

“‘So what’re you saying?’ She shrugged. ‘There’s something about me people hate.’ ‘What?’ He looked at her. ‘Your three legs? Your four arms? Your two heads?’ ‘I don’t know what.’ He squinted, as if appraising her through a lens. ‘I’ll tell you what it is. But it’s not hate. They’re afraid. They’re afraid of what they don’t understand. What they don’t know how to deal with. It’s a power you possess, and people fear it.’ His voice rose excitedly. ‘You don’t even understand it, because, when you look at people, you SEE them. Something in your eyes goes right through people, and it’s unnerving, and so they react negatively.’”

Last edited by faithfilly on 16 May 2010, 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I too thought it was really interesting when I first read what's in that link.

I don't know if anybody has done any research to find out exactly what causes this, but I doubt research would bring the truth anyhow. The trick behind the research being successful depends on two things: the researcher has to be there to witness this happening in its natural environment and, even more importantly, the researcher must be honest and caring. I'm fortunate in that my NT husband has witnessed this happening to me many times and he is honest, but doesn't understand people. However, where he fails in understanding human behavior, I have a 27 yr. old NT daughter who is highly capable; plus she is perceptive about human behavior and is also honest and cares enough to help me understand what may be the reasons for my being treated as if I'm invisible.

Both my husband and my daughter think that I make people nervous because I'm too different for them to understand. They both have told me that unless someone is forced to know me for a long time, there is no way they'll even begin to know how to deal with me. That explains why when I look others in the eye, others do all they can to avoid eye contact with me.

Are you sure that this always happens? Could it be possible you're only remembering it when it does happen? You said when you told her your seat number it worked a few times, and you said the male was fine. Its not a sexist thing, both males and females do it to males and females.

Its happened to me a hell of a lot, I would be forgotten or my meal would be forgotten or the dumb sh*ts who work at resaturants would say "oh we didn't write down your order, sorry"

No matter how much you have a go at them they will never do anything right. THATS WHY THEY WORK THERE and not a law firm.

Im not saying i'm perfect, im FAR from and make heaps of mistakes, but I've also had heaps of experiences of NOT being forgotten, left out or ignored.

Just something else I would like to add, I have to back up the person who said "They don't know how to deal with you" which is completely true. I'll give you an example:

I work in a company with 100 guys and 5 women. Three of these women started the job at the same time as me.

They would readily be approached and spoken to, and made friends very quickly. I wasn't invisible, but I was not as approachable. I have trouble with social interaction, and it gave off a vibe, and they don't know how to deal with you.

It always takes me at least 3 times as long to get to know people and make friends as normal girls.

As i'm a loud aspie who constantly speaks but says the wrong thing, and not a quiet one, I don't usually have the invisible problem nowdays, when I was a kid I was a shy aspie and was very transparent then. People would plain forget I was there and not include me in anything that needed to be done, anything.

After the casino saga ive become very aware of it. As an aspie I like to think im reasonably objective.
Heres what ive observed....

It happens often but not every single time and in every single place.
Im totally certain women do it to me a lot more than men. The age or appearance of the woman doesn't
seem to matter.

I can counter act it by making a big deal out of the situation but I always wondered why a random fat old business man can just turn up sit around in a relativity neutral position and suddenly stand out over me.

I love to know exactly what is doing it.
If I could figure it out it might help with dating.

I have the biggest problem with people around my own age ignoring me maybe it is because having a connection with people around my age is so important to me that I notice it and it bothers me.

Could it be the same thing with women? Maybe you want them to notice you and when they don't you know but when a guy doesn't see you it doesn't feel like a big deal.

You know, I used to get that a lot more than I do more recently. I've made myself a little more present since I got pulled into the social atmosphere in my senior year of high school by a couple of chance friends. It was pretty awesome. o.o;; I sometimes feel like I'm outgrowing a lot of the Aspiness problems that I used to hate myself for. I think I still have a lot of the traits I liked about being an Aspie, including some social deficits I just wouldn't feel the same without. xP

The only way out of this pattern I can figure is to get seriously steeped in a heavily social environment by a close friend whom can keep you aware of what's going on. It's like a social coach, but not sucky. My friend Christina was the main source of this for me. She got me involved in the Japanese Culture -coughanimecough- Club at school, and got me hanging out with all the freaks in school in one of the back halls in the morning. It was nice, after I got used to it, which was around the time I graduated. -__-;

Now I'm in college, and it feels like starting over. So many of my friends I don't really identify with in the least. It really feels like going back to square one, but at least I know how to put myself out there and get noticed still, so things are going a little faster this time, except I don't have anyone to help me find the people whom I really get along with. Still, they come along slowly... even if I still don't feel like I have any friends really close, like back in senior year..... >.<

Last edited by Freak_Contagion on 17 May 2010, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I work in a restaurant myself, and get this same feeling when scoping out girls, be it on or off the clock. The fact that two of our hosts keep pushing me to go and randomly talk to girls doesn't help much, but either way I get the feeling they don't even think I exist. I want to get myself more noticed, but don't really know how to do it without coming across as a creepy stalker-type.

Was the fat old Business man chatty and approachable when he ordered the coffee? Friendly?

I think if it bothers you that much you shouldn't go there. You can't change people. Maybe they're purposely being b*****s, no-one can be that stupid, surely.

I know what its like though and quiet people just go un-noticed, always. I still think its because NTs don't know how to deal with an aspie so they just tune out to it.