"He accepts me the way that I am"

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I believe so, yes. Differences arise when an individual has placed such priority on such a relationship that it takes more importance than it otherwise might. Even without effort, I do believe that there are prospective partners for anyone; whether those are healthy or positive relationships is another discussion. I don't advocate people changing who they intrinsically are, but I do encourage people to be the best version of themselves possible. I know I am odd and quirky, yet it was when I embraced these as part of myself instead of a millstone around my neck that I found greater success in my endeavors, whether romantic or purely social. And compromise does not negate sense of self... it comes down to sacrifice, or the risking of something good in the hopes of something better - there are no guarantees or it wouldn't really be a sacrifice.


M.

>Basically 1. Is it possible to love/be loved for who you are even if you have some large built-in oddities (or flaws) in your personality? 2. If your answer is yes - are there exceptions?

Some people are easy to love -- their personalities and other features are attractive to many. But I don't think that's always deep true love either. It can be on the surface. Still, as we grow up, it's worth cultivating features that make ourselves easier for other people to deal with in general, and the same goes for people we love.

I am loved despite my bad temper. I continue to work on improving my control over my temper. I have a bunch of other odd qualities and am loved despite these or sometimes for them. So, yes it is possible.

On your second point, there are many exceptions until you find the person who can love you despite whatever the flaws are. All sorts of people are in relationships despite massive and obvious flaws. On the other hand, I like being with someone who, like me, tries to improve some of his weak points. Other people have different requirements and are not interested in changing, so they will have to find a partner who accepts that. Seems like many people do not like to try and improve themselves except in areas like fitness, money making or work related skills, so I think not wanting to change would match up with many people. You just have to find the right one. Unfortunately, we aspies tend to be an odd bunch in the eyes of normies, so that narrows the field quite a lot.

It's not really such an extreme example. That very thing is such a common theme that therange started a thread about it- parsing out situational misogyny ( based on bitter defeat, fixable) versus bone deep misogyny (much harder to fix and a much greater flaw).

I also like your "silver bullet" analogy. No relationship comes without change and compromise. You will have to change something, but it shouldn't be something that is at the very core of your being. For example, all my life since I was a kid I stayed up late every night reading a book in bed. In a sense, "that's just me". But also, it was really just a habit and not a core part of my personality. When I got married, I stopped doing that so my husband could sleep. It was a change of something I'd been doing most of my life but not a core personality change. Had he insisted that I stop reading books alltogether because "it's a waste of time", that would have been a dealbreaker because bookishness is in my core.

Firstly, and *most importantly*, don't believe anything you read on internet forums Most of us are not real flesh-and-blood human beings at all. We are software-bots that simply trawl the web, sampling cliches and regurgitating them ad nauseum. The things you pointed out being prime examples. Also such delightfully evidence-free pearls as: "you have to love yourself first", "be yourself", "change yourself", "girls only like jerks" and "the best time to start lawns from seed, or by any means, is just prior to the grass's season of most vigorous growth." Sometimes the regurgitating process goes awry....

The point is, that there is an unwritten assumption that each of us is two. At least. Maybe more. That there is a 'real' one that is sweetness and delight, with unlimited potential for success. But somehow, due to an infinite number of potential causes, this 'real' one has been banished to the cellar and an imposter (or whole tribe of imposters) is the one who is going about our life. Making mistakes, messing up, saying the wrong thing, being constantly rejected and heading for failure if not today, than certainly by next week. Because the real me is locked in the tower, slaving in the cellar, turns into a monster by day. Many (so-called) 'fairy' tales are in fact advanced psychological self-help manuals explaining this state of affairs in a way that bypasses the evil guardian imposters and communicates directly to the real, hidden,core essence of our being. Anyway...to get back on topic...sometimes the regurgitating process goes awry....

Your real self is the inherintly lovable, attractive and creative one. The 'personality' is the fake one that must be 'changed', scraped away, to let the real me shine through. Because this is the one that contains all the bad things like greed, jealousy, misogyny, misandry, vanity and all those other things possessed in great quantitiy by the powerful and succesful. Err...sometimes the regurgitating process goes awry....time for a reboot....reboot...reboot...reebot....robot.....robot...robot.....

Loving someone for who they are doesn't mean you have to like everything about them. That's the whole definition of unconditional love:

"You have these traits, you do these things that annoy or upset me, but I STILL love you".

No-one should ever expect people to love them 100% exactly the way they are. Never get upset with them, look perfect, act perfect, perfect personality 100% of the time, its not a perfect world and that won't ever happen.

This.

I love my bf no matter what. But I would like our relationship more if certain aspects would change

Then I guess the next question is where the line lies between an annoying habit and a deal-breaker. There's a lot of grey between the two. What makes up the difference between "you have faults but I love you anyway" and "this just isn't going to work out " ?

That will be unique to each couple. This is something that you can't make a general rule about. Not only is it unique to a couple, but it will change over time within the couple. The thing that seemed incredibly annoying at first might eventually come to seem no big deal. Something that seemed tolerable at first may wear on the nerves over time. Also, people grow and change and have different needs at different points in their life. Example: he doesn't want kids. She does. But they are both in their early 20's so it's not a dealbreaker. They get closer to their 30's and this mismatch between them grows more important and drives them apart. Lots of people break up over things which initially did not affect the relationship but become more important as the people grow older.

Bottom line? There is a lot of grey area. There is no absolute line even within one particular couple and even over one particular issue. Everybody has their tipping point but that can change over time and people can constantly change where exactly their tipping point is.

^ Exactly! Love the "kids" example.

Since this is so person-dependent you may find also something in your partner equally unpalatable down the road. Don't hyperfocus on yourself so much that you miss something that could eventually become a dealbreaker for you!

My nutshell: Know your partner to figure out what bothers them about you. Know yourself to understand what you can't accept from your partner.

You've gotten a lot of great feedback already....I think part of the dichotomy you've mentioned lies in semantics: I believe that when most people express that they are accepted for "who they are" in a relationship, they're saying their partner accepts the aspects of their personality that are truly immutable. I think there's an implication there as well that they've accepted that there actually are certain aspects of their personality - or perhaps more accurately - their behavior, that can be modified to meet their partner's needs.

I think that a partner's ability to accurately identify those character traits that are not subject to change is absolutely key to this concept of acceptance, and actually key to the foundation of a healthy relationship. That's work that both partners have to do. For example, if I'm involved in an Aspie/NT relationship, and my Aspie guy gets way overstimulated in a night club environment, I'm going to be a lousy partner if I tell him we have to go nightclubbing every weekend. The over-stimulation is something he can't "wish" away, there's no compensation he can try...so he'll be very unhappy in a nightclub environment. I can find lots of different ways to spend time with him other than nightclubbing, and if I really, really want to go nightclubbing, I can go with my friends. Another example: let's say my Aspie guy constantly gets immersed in work and never makes it home in time to have dinner with me and the kids. I can't ask him to "naturally" become less focused on his job, but I can ask him to set an alarm on his watch or his phone to remind him when it's time to wrap up his work to get home in time for dinner every night.

In every relationship, negotiating where to draw that line between what's immutable and what isn't requires a great deal of honesty, trust, communication, and commitment to the success of the relationship. I think when people feel accepted in their relationship, it's confirmation that both partners have met those requirements.

Last edited by HopeGrows on 30 Apr 2010, 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Getting hung up on semantics is my specialty


Appreicate the input from everyone. I often have trouble with finding lines and interpreting shades of grey. As well as an obsession for details or specific examples, and an (apparently) unusual focus on semantics. People sharing their viewpoints helps me to understand.

I think it's situational. If you can find the person who can love you warts and all that's fine. If you can't, but can shave a few warts off in order to be with someone, then that's okay too. If you go to the extreme of losing all your warts, then what are ya? Not a wart beast at all anymore, that's what.

You're still a beast though! :p

Oh and hai Mith, nice to see you again once in a while. :p

I don't know if there's 'somebody for everyone'. It depends how fussy your standards are and what you can 'bring to the table' yourself.

If you have a load of faults, but are aware of them, then perhaps if you met someone who also had many faults (and was self-aware), it could be as good a match as two people who both had no major faults. The couple could either decide to change for each other, or both accept the other person as they are.

It's when one half of a couple is the 'saint' (with good reason or not) and the other is the one who f***s up/ has a lousy personality etc..(or so he or she is told) that things go rapidly downhill..

Seems a bit of a balancing act...

Just because a relationship isn't going to work out, doesn't mean that you don't love them anyway. One of my dealbreakers is that they must be a musician or at least have some appreciation for music. It's been part of my life since I was 6 and I'm not going to let go of it now. However, I have certainly had crushes on people who weren't musicians, as far as I am aware. Another example: I know someone whose best friend treats them badly, yet she won't do anything about it. We both disapprove, but I still like her as a friend, and always will. She is a lovely girl, and a wonderful person to have around.