Please advise !possible aspie guy told me not to contact him

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alex
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02 Jun 2010, 3:17 pm

I agree with Ichinin.



HopeGrows
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02 Jun 2010, 3:24 pm

Ichinin wrote:
The normal "gameplay" rules you NT people love goes into the trashbin. Can i be more clear than that?

Threads like these...


@Ichinin, the OP's profile describes her as being an undiagnosed Aspie, not NT.


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02 Jun 2010, 3:44 pm

It sounds like the OP is really confused about what she wants & is playing some serious mind games with that guy. She talks about how the guy told her not to talk to him & then she still wants to; sounds kind of stalkerish to me. I think the best thing to do is to avoid each other as much as possible. It mite be a good idea to change jobs before he ends up going complaining to management


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04 Jun 2010, 11:44 am

HopeGrows wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
The normal "gameplay" rules you NT people love goes into the trashbin. Can i be more clear than that?

Threads like these...


@Ichinin, the OP's profile describes her as being an undiagnosed Aspie, not NT.



I could describe myself as a choo-choo train, but that still wouldnt be the truth.

So, excuse me but she sounds VERY neurotypical, she plays these social games with the guy (a very neurotypical trait) and wonders why he reacts differently from the normal guys that insist on praising girls to high heavens, even if they treat the guys like crap.

If a girl treats me like crap, i treat her like crap. If you want equality in a society, stop thinking about women as if they are flawless. They are our peers - nothing more, nothing less.


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04 Jun 2010, 11:53 am

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
The normal "gameplay" rules you NT people love goes into the trashbin. Can i be more clear than that?

Threads like these...


@Ichinin, the OP's profile describes her as being an undiagnosed Aspie, not NT.



I could describe myself as a choo-choo train, but that still wouldnt be the truth.

So, excuse me but she sounds VERY neurotypical, she plays these social games with the guy (a very neurotypical trait) and wonders why he reacts differently from the normal guys that insist on praising girls to high heavens, even if they treat the guys like crap.
less.


It doesn't matter if she is AS or NT, she just needs to grow up.


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Mosaicofminds
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04 Jun 2010, 5:54 pm

I think it's out of line to pass judgment on a total stranger's diagnosis, or lack thereof. What's to stop them from doing the same to you?

@ the OP:
"I need to defend myself a bit here. I may have caused a great deal of stress for him however there were weeks of sleepless nights for me too. There were times that I almost got over with him until he hung around outside my department when I was about to leave for the day. For instance I could see him walking back and forth outside my office 3 times in 5 mins taking drink out of my office machine (he has his own just outside his office but he came to use my office machine). After I left I saw him coming back and looked into my office and then scratched his head etc."

No offense, but this is not a good excuse/defense. When socially awkward people want to say something to someone but they don't know how, they tend to hang around but not say anything. They may try to cover their anxiety and awkwardness by pretending to do things like drink out of the coffee machine. I used to be like this myself and developed a number of tricks for not looking this way. The point is, his hanging around may be annoying, but it's normal for a socially awkward person, especially after the way you've treated him. And it doesn't actually have any effect on your life, so why are you letting it bother you?

IMO, you have two choices at this point. 1) Explain your behavior (make sure you take full responsibility). Apologize. Ask to be friends with him again. Be willing to accept it if he says no. 2) Move on.
Neither of you are bringing out the best in each other right now, and I think something needs to change. Since you're here trying to understand the situation, you might be the one to do it.

"What I wanted to get from here is how I am going to deal with his odd behaviour towards me. That was my main conern. and I am just trying to understand what is going on in his brain so that I will not hate for good."
Many people here have now explained what might be going on in his brain, so you should now have a better idea. It's your choice to take or leave this information. Several people have suggested things you can do, as well. Again, your choice whether to follow our advice.

It sounds like you expected us to assume all the weirdness was on him, and not pass judgment on your behavior. Yes, our advice was based on the belief that your actions are no more mature than his, but please recognize that it's still advice. I can't speak for anyone else, but my comments are meant to help, not to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry if you didn't get the response you wanted from this thread.



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04 Jun 2010, 11:49 pm

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
The normal "gameplay" rules you NT people love goes into the trashbin. Can i be more clear than that?

Threads like these...


@Ichinin, the OP's profile describes her as being an undiagnosed Aspie, not NT.



I could describe myself as a choo-choo train, but that still wouldnt be the truth.

So, excuse me but she sounds VERY neurotypical, she plays these social games with the guy (a very neurotypical trait) and wonders why he reacts differently from the normal guys that insist on praising girls to high heavens, even if they treat the guys like crap.

If a girl treats me like crap, i treat her like crap. If you want equality in a society, stop thinking about women as if they are flawless. They are our peers - nothing more, nothing less.


@Ichinin, you might be freaking shocked to learn that people play childish psychological games with other people, regardless of neural status. NTs don't have the market cornered on being manipulative, selfish, childish, egotistical, etc. The presence or absence of those traits has profoundly more to do with an individual's character than his/her neural status. To label the OP's flaws as being indicative of a "VERY neurotypical" person really just makes you sound ignorant, as does your assumption (incorrect as it is) that I somehow think of women as flawless. Your attempt to assign negative traits to all NTs is ridiculous, and it only betrays your own bias.


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05 Jun 2010, 8:36 am

HopeGrows wrote:
@Ichinin, you might be freaking shocked to learn that people play childish psychological games with other people, regardless of neural status. NTs don't have the market cornered on being manipulative, selfish, childish, egotistical, etc.


No no no, i do know that there are psychopaths that get these social games very well. You on the other hand does not seem to be aware of one of the major diagnostic criterias for aspergers.


HopeGrows wrote:
The presence or absence of those traits has profoundly more to do with an individual's character than his/her neural status. To label the OP's flaws as being indicative of a "VERY neurotypical" person really just makes you sound ignorant, as does your assumption (incorrect as it is) that I somehow think of women as flawless.


1. What she does write makes her sound very typical of what i define as (socially) normal. Normal people play these kinds of games and it is part of their breeding-program. Go out and study people at bars and clubs and you'll be able to watch their mating rituals - Its like watching birds advancing eachother on "the wild kingdom" with Sir David Attenbourgh.

Aspies does NOT have this normally, in fact "not getting social cues" is the definition of the syndrome, but why am i telling you something you should know already?

2. With "you" i mean everyone. Thats the problem with English, some people think they are personally adressed when someone use that word.


HopeGrows wrote:
Your attempt to assign negative traits to all NTs is ridiculous, and it only betrays your own bias.


Negative traits are not negative for NT's. They embrace such traits and look down upon others that are unable to perform such social rituals. But maby you are one of the few aspies in the world who are socially accepted even if you function differently, in that case - congratulations!

The problem is that the rest of us does not live in such a universe. We are bullied during childhood, rejected for relationships, constantly passed up for permanent employment and are labelled this and that out of ignorance by wikipedia-shrinks, and the results of how society treats us can be read on these forums.


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05 Jun 2010, 1:09 pm

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
@Ichinin, you might be freaking shocked to learn that people play childish psychological games with other people, regardless of neural status. NTs don't have the market cornered on being manipulative, selfish, childish, egotistical, etc.


No no no, i do know that there are psychopaths that get these social games very well. You on the other hand does not seem to be aware of one of the major diagnostic criterias for aspergers.


So enlighten me @Ichinin - what is the "major diagnostic criteria for aspergers" that I'm unaware of? Is there a criteria that says that Aspies are incapable of playing childish psychological games? Cause I've seen plenty of examples of that behavior, firsthand.

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
The presence or absence of those traits has profoundly more to do with an individual's character than his/her neural status. To label the OP's flaws as being indicative of a "VERY neurotypical" person really just makes you sound ignorant, as does your assumption (incorrect as it is) that I somehow think of women as flawless.


1. What she does write makes her sound very typical of what i define as (socially) normal. Normal people play these kinds of games and it is part of their breeding-program. Go out and study people at bars and clubs and you'll be able to watch their mating rituals - Its like watching birds advancing eachother on "the wild kingdom" with Sir David Attenbourgh.

Aspies does NOT have this normally, in fact "not getting social cues" is the definition of the syndrome, but why am i telling you something you should know already?

2. With "you" i mean everyone. Thats the problem with English, some people think they are personally adressed when someone use that word.


The comments I bolded are exactly why your interpretation and perspective of NT behavior are flawed. Her behavior is not "normal" by anyone's standards (particularly not for a woman in her 30s). I'm sorry, but you need to understand that a designation of "NT" means only that someone is not on the autistic spectrum. It does not define any aspect of a person's psychological health, maturity, or even their level of social skill. Since most of the world's population are currently classed as NT, that means that all of the psychological illnesses and social dysfunctions currently defined exist in the NT population. Clearly, the behavior of a single NT cannot be applied as a norm across the NT population. Consider psychosis, for example. The majority of psychotics are probably NTs, but that doesn't mean that psychotic behavior is considered "normal" among NTs. Psychotic behavior is clearly considered abnormal by NTs and Aspies alike.

Unfortunately, we can't know the illnesses and/or psychological, developmental, social dysfunctions any person we encounter may suffer from. (Nor can we know their neural status.) But you seem to be drawing a straight line between "NT" and "normal" - and that's absolutely not true.

In terms of an inability to read social cues, the OP has recounted examples of her own inability to read social cues, as well as the inability of her co-worker to do so. That's one aspect of Asperger's, and only one aspect of the problems the OP and her co-worker are experiencing.

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
Your attempt to assign negative traits to all NTs is ridiculous, and it only betrays your own bias.


Negative traits are not negative for NT's. They embrace such traits and look down upon others that are unable to perform such social rituals. But maby you are one of the few aspies in the world who are socially accepted even if you function differently, in that case - congratulations!

The problem is that the rest of us does not live in such a universe. We are bullied during childhood, rejected for relationships, constantly passed up for permanent employment and are labelled this and that out of ignorance by wikipedia-shrinks, and the results of how society treats us can be read on these forums.


As to your comments above (bolding added by me) - that's the craziest, most nonsensical statement I've seen in a long time. Again, your presumption that somehow bad behavior is accepted (and even "embraced") among NTs is simply false. Bad behavior is bad behavior - people behave in unhealthy, manipulative, mean, nasty ways toward each other, regardless of neural status. The goal is to assess each person's behavior, and make decisions about them based on their behavior - not to dismiss most of the world's population as lousy based on neural status. (Oh, and btw, I'm NT.)


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petitefille
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05 Jun 2010, 3:34 pm

Okay @Inchin & Hopegrows

Frankly speaking I do not know if I have aspergers syndrome.
I believed that I was normal until I met this guy and after spending sometime on researching online about high functioning asperger syndrome.
I am usually very good at social cues and yes I manipulate sometimes if necessary.
However I do have a problem with long term relationship with people not necessarily romantic relationship, also
friendship too.
I appear to be normal to most people in reality.
He is the first person I found very difficult to understand.
It could be because he is Aspie. I might have taken a wrong signal in the first place that he was interested in me because
of his odd behaviour. I am very confused with him.
I did not know he is not normal until I got to know him a bit better/more than other people at work.

I am not sure if he is aspie for sure but I can tell he is different from most people I have known.
I saw him yesterday again at work. He must have seen me first then I saw him walking pass me with weird face expession.
(head straight forward but eyes to my side with somewhat very cringed face)
Again I do not know what he is thinking. If I literally interpret his face with this cringe look I would say he despises me.
any idea on this ? :cry:


@Mosaicofminds and all

much appreciated ! I would have not treated him the way I did if I knew he was different. I didnt know he was aspie.
I already apologised to him after I received email from him about stop contacting him etc.
I wrote him how I felt about his behaviour and also suggested him try not to run into each other as it will make things worse for both of us.
I did not apologise about facebook as he didnt mention about it. He just told me that he was upset with my messages and the way(tone) I talked to him.
Before then I accused him of blocking me on facebook and asked him why on the phone
He said its because he could not search me - > I found his answer very innocent and cute. oh well I have a strong feeling that I will get negative comments on this soon. :roll:

Ive got a few more questions.

1) How do Aspie present themselves around people they dont like ?
ignore ? avoid ? act odd ?
2) Do aspie feel awkward around people they have crush on too?
3) when I talked to him about depression he said I could talk to his dad about it which is quite unusual. Does it mean anything from Aspie's viewpoint?



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05 Jun 2010, 7:32 pm

Quote:
1) How do Aspie present themselves around people they dont like ?
ignore ? avoid ? act odd ?

YES

Quote:
2) Do aspie feel awkward around people they have crush on too?

YES

Quote:
3) when I talked to him about depression he said I could talk to his dad about it which is quite unusual. Does it mean anything from Aspie's viewpoint?


He probably feels extremely uncomfortable talking to you. I think it would be best for both of you to try to maintain strictly professional relationship & avoid each other the rest of the time


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Oh, you can't help that, said the Cat: we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
How do you know I'm mad? said Alice.
You must be, said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.


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05 Jun 2010, 9:56 pm

petitefille wrote:
I am not sure if he is aspie for sure but I can tell he is different from most people I have known.
I saw him yesterday again at work. He must have seen me first then I saw him walking pass me with weird face expession.
(head straight forward but eyes to my side with somewhat very cringed face)
Again I do not know what he is thinking. If I literally interpret his face with this cringe look I would say he despises me.
any idea on this ? :cry:
@Mosaicofminds and all
much appreciated ! I would have not treated him the way I did if I knew he was different. I didnt know he was aspie.
I already apologised to him after I received email from him about stop contacting him etc.
I wrote him how I felt about his behaviour and also suggested him try not to run into each other as it will make things worse for both of us.
I did not apologise about facebook as he didnt mention about it. He just told me that he was upset with my messages and the way(tone) I talked to him.
Before then I accused him of blocking me on facebook and asked him why on the phone
He said its because he could not search me - > I found his answer very innocent and cute. oh well I have a strong feeling that I will get negative comments on this soon. :roll:
Ive got a few more questions.
1) How do Aspie present themselves around people they dont like ?
ignore ? avoid ? act odd ?
2) Do aspie feel awkward around people they have crush on too?
3) when I talked to him about depression he said I could talk to his dad about it which is quite unusual. Does it mean anything from Aspie's viewpoint?
1. It takes a lot for me to not like someone. They have to be consistently mean or rude. I ignore them as much as possible, and am extremely polite to them if I must interact. I am told that I look mean towards males I don't like. At the first sign of trouble with males I tend to get more aggressive in my responses towards them, in a effort to show I will defend myself. With females, I get a look of painful suffering at being forced to be in their presence. At the first sign of trouble I walk away in disgust.
2. I am seriously awkward towards my crushes. I look at them with puppy dog eyes and hope i don't get caught mooning over them. I am at a loss for words and actions because I know there is a fine line between attentive and creepy. I constantly worry about crossing that line. My efforts often are self defeating because my restraint makes me seem odd. i.e. I am afraid of touching my crush when she enters my personal space (less than 6 inches away) because even though that is what i want most, I am not sure if she wants me to. It makes me so confused.
3. Maybe his dad is a shrink or is his life skills coach/confidant.
Lastly, I would cringe going past my crush because as I said before; I would not want to get hurt further, even though I would be willing to if I had the chance. (Moth and Flame). I have an ex-wife that I love very much even though I know she would use me and hurt me given the chance, I am so afraid of looking at her because I don't want to get hurt, but I have to look because I love her. I wonder what I look is on my face when she catches me looking?


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petitefille
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06 Jun 2010, 4:41 am

Quote:
1. It takes a lot for me to not like someone. They have to be consistently mean or rude. I ignore them as much as possible, and am extremely polite to them if I must interact. I am told that I look mean towards males I don't like. At the first sign of trouble with males I tend to get more aggressive in my responses towards them, in a effort to show I will defend myself. With females, I get a look of painful suffering at being forced to be in their presence. At the first sign of trouble I walk away in disgust.
2. I am seriously awkward towards my crushes. I look at them with puppy dog eyes and hope i don't get caught mooning over them. I am at a loss for words and actions because I know there is a fine line between attentive and creepy. I constantly worry about crossing that line. My efforts often are self defeating because my restraint makes me seem odd. i.e. I am afraid of touching my crush when she enters my personal space (less than 6 inches away) because even though that is what i want most, I am not sure if she wants me to. It makes me so confused.
3. Maybe his dad is a shrink or is his life skills coach/confidant.
Lastly, I would cringe going past my crush because as I said before; I would not want to get hurt further, even though I would be willing to if I had the chance. (Moth and Flame). I have an ex-wife that I love very much even though I know she would use me and hurt me given the chance, I am so afraid of looking at her because I don't want to get hurt, but I have to look because I love her. I wonder what I look is on my face when she catches me looking?


Thanks very much Mudboy. It has been very helpful. Indeed I have learnt a lot about Aspie here.
I respect his request so I will not initiate the conversation but when I feel brave enough I might give him a smile just like the way I used to do. I cannot still distinguish between look of painful suffering at being forced to be in their presence and a cringe face it looks the same to me.
And regarding puppy dog eyes, this is the exact word I would describe him, a week before when I saw him at the same place as Friday, he walked past me with the most innocent face (puppy dog face!) and he actually turned his head to see me. I was standing still as I did not know how to react to him so decided to wait still until he walked past. This face is not the one I can expect to see from someone older than 5 years old ?? very rare very cute and innocent.
But then a week later he walked past with a cringe face (dirty look!?) :huh:
oh well but I guess he has got a lot of thought in his mind(hate, desire, frustration etc).
Wish he could explain his feelings to me just like the way you do.

Thanks again for your thread and I am really sorry to hear about ex wife.



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06 Jun 2010, 2:38 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
So enlighten me @Ichinin - what is the "major diagnostic criteria for aspergers" that I'm unaware of? Is there a criteria that says that Aspies are incapable of playing childish psychological games? Cause I've seen plenty of examples of that behavior, firsthand.


Is the dating game a childish game? No, its a grown up, very NT specific game.


Quote:
The comments I bolded are exactly why your interpretation and perspective of NT behavior are flawed. Her behavior is not "normal" by anyone's standards (particularly not for a woman in her 30s).


She plays grown up NT relationship games, playing hard to get and all that crap. And you missed that completely.


Quote:
As to your comments above (bolding added by me) - that's the craziest, most nonsensical statement I've seen in a long time.


Aha, you think its ok for NT's to be assholes against others that miss social cues. Ok, got it.


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06 Jun 2010, 2:42 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I was deleted from a friend's Myspace, and eventually she cut contact, even blocking me from IM and not answering my e-mails. She didn't even give an explanation, and this was just a friend. I became concerned and asked a friend to e-mail her, and instead of treating me like a concerned friend, she treated me like I was a crazy psycho stalker.

She was the only friend I could talk to about my interests, without becoming a hippie or a hipster.


I've had people do that to me before as well.