Please advise !possible aspie guy told me not to contact him

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Northeastern292
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06 Jun 2010, 2:49 pm

Mudboy wrote:
I have a similar problem when I feel hurt by women. If I start and remain in the friend zone I am fine. It only happens if I thought the relationship got serious then went bad. I don't totally ignore the girls, but I try hard not to look at them or get into conversations with them. I wish they would apologize and tell me they love me, but that is fantasy and would never happen. Since I don't know how to handle it, I avoid them. I worry if I give an inch, and look at her, my self control will all crumble, and I would try for the friend zone again. If I tried the friend zone, it probably would not work. I don't know if I would cry, or be entirely too forward and needy seeming. It feels like I am falling in a trap when I look at her. I want her, but she will destroy me. Am am a moth and she is the flame.


I have been in that same boat many numerous times.

petitefille wrote:
But then a week later he walked past with a cringe face (dirty look!?) huhoh well but I guess he has got a lot of thought in his mind(hate, desire, frustration etc). Wish he could explain his feelings to me just like the way you do.


If I was you, I would be trying to find a job elsewhere, unless economic conditions have you trapped in that office.



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06 Jun 2010, 2:56 pm

petitefille wrote:
Again I do not know what he is thinking. If I literally interpret his face with this cringe look I would say he despises me.
any idea on this ? :cry:


It could be something else like he still like you but... well, he cant bear himself to talk to you because of what happened.

Quote:
1) How do Aspie present themselves around people they dont like ? ignore ? avoid ? act odd ?
2) Do aspie feel awkward around people they have crush on too?
3) when I talked to him about depression he said I could talk to his dad about it which is quite unusual. Does it mean anything from Aspie's viewpoint?


1. Ignore and Avoid. Thats what i did.
2. Ehm... yes, to the point where you feel as if your brain fell out. But it dissipates with age.
3. I interpret it as "Go talk to someone else".


Look, if you want to be with him, TALK to him. No games, no ESP signals, no subliminal messages - or chinese fortunes - just be EXTREMLY frank and say what you mean. Ask how he feels and you may yet save the situation. But my comment a few posts up still stands: get rid of the other guy before trying something new with him.

If a girl would advance on me, i'd love it, but if she sat down and wanted me to be her shrink and to listen on and on how miserable how relationship was, i'd leave.

The fact is, you are in a relationship and he isnt, there is a big risk that he is going to see you as a whiner who already have everything and are totally unsympathetic in not seeing how miserable he is by coming to him with your relationship problems. When you are all alone and have noone that care about you, the last thing you want to hear is how happy other people are (or were) with someone else.

And btw, i am still undiagnosed, but i've done pretty much every ASD test there is (and for other syndroms/disorders too which do not fit in at all) and everything - including now two psychologists examinations, point to a clear case of Aspergers Syndrome.


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06 Jun 2010, 10:26 pm

I'm not usually one to make such comments, but I strongly agree with Ichinin's post.



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07 Jun 2010, 12:27 am

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
So enlighten me @Ichinin - what is the "major diagnostic criteria for aspergers" that I'm unaware of? Is there a criteria that says that Aspies are incapable of playing childish psychological games? Cause I've seen plenty of examples of that behavior, firsthand.


Is the dating game a childish game? No, its a grown up, very NT specific game.


@Ichinin, you didn't answer my question: what is the "major diagnostic criteria for aspergers" that I'm unaware of?


Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
The comments I bolded are exactly why your interpretation and perspective of NT behavior are flawed. Her behavior is not "normal" by anyone's standards (particularly not for a woman in her 30s).


She plays grown up NT relationship games, playing hard to get and all that crap. And you missed that completely.


No, you're wrong. You have some idea that dysfunctional behavior is somehow equal to your concept of "grown up NT relationship games" - and that's just incorrect.

Ichinin wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
As to your comments above (bolding added by me) - that's the craziest, most nonsensical statement I've seen in a long time.


Aha, you think its ok for NT's to be assholes against others that miss social cues. Ok, got it.


Well, I thought I'd read the craziest, most nonsensical statement I'd seen in a long time, until I read the one above. What on earth are you talking about, @Ichinin? You're the one making inaccurate, pejorative statements that result in your dismissal of most of the world's population as people who embrace "negative traits" and "look down" on others who don't and/or can't. And now you're saying I think it's okay for NT's to be "assholes?" Sorry, @Ichinin, I'm not the one acting like an as*hole here.


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CrinklyCrustacean
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07 Jun 2010, 1:26 am

petitefille wrote:
I am usually very good at social cues and yes I manipulate sometimes if necessary.


I find this quite worrying - when would you consider manipulation to be necessary? :?



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07 Jun 2010, 2:02 pm

HopeDiminishes wrote:
No, you're wrong. You have some idea that dysfunctional behavior is somehow equal to your concept of "grown up NT relationship games" - and that's just incorrect.


You are the one that dragged the whole "Childish games" into the discussion. I never said that dysfunctional behaviour was like that and frankly, that is accepted social behaviour in the NT world.

Quote:
You're the one making inaccurate, pejorative statements that result in your dismissal of most of the world's population as people who embrace "negative traits" and "look down" on others who don't and/or can't.


My guess is that you are probably dyslectic or reading things into what i wrote - like an NT person would. Good luck with your monologue.


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HopeGrows
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07 Jun 2010, 5:29 pm

Ichinin wrote:
HopeDiminishes wrote:
No, you're wrong. You have some idea that dysfunctional behavior is somehow equal to your concept of "grown up NT relationship games" - and that's just incorrect.


You are the one that dragged the whole "Childish games" into the discussion. I never said that dysfunctional behaviour was like that and frankly, that is accepted social behaviour in the NT world.

Quote:
You're the one making inaccurate, pejorative statements that result in your dismissal of most of the world's population as people who embrace "negative traits" and "look down" on others who don't and/or can't.


My guess is that you are probably dyslectic or reading things into what i wrote - like an NT person would. Good luck with your monologue.


Umm, I think the disability you're looking for is "dyslexia" - and no, I don't suffer from it. I'm also not a bigot, or someone who simply chooses to ignore the facts because they don't support my skewed vision of the world. I'll leave heavy burden to you. And really, good luck to you, cause you're gonna need it.


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07 Jun 2010, 7:11 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
No, you're wrong. You have some idea that dysfunctional behavior is somehow equal to your concept of "grown up NT relationship games" - and that's just incorrect.

Whether or not those social games are 'dysfunctional behavior', his point was that Asperger's Syndrome provides a natural barrier to those sorts of behaviors. Manipulative devious social games depend on social cues, and to play that act as an Aspie is going to be a challenge at best by simple virtue of poor social skills.

It doesn't mean Aspies can't pull stunts like that. It just means that it's not going to be as likely. And, I'd have to agree with just about everything else that Ichinin wrote.

petitefille: I think the guy still likes you, but you really seem to be doing just about everything possible to destroy your chances with him. You can't continue to play social games like this, and hope he'll get it. You need to make some decisions, and be clear with him. If you're not, you're just going to mess with his head, and he'll end up despising you.


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HopeGrows
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08 Jun 2010, 12:40 am

Pandoran-March wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
No, you're wrong. You have some idea that dysfunctional behavior is somehow equal to your concept of "grown up NT relationship games" - and that's just incorrect.

Whether or not those social games are 'dysfunctional behavior', his point was that Asperger's Syndrome provides a natural barrier to those sorts of behaviors. Manipulative devious social games depend on social cues, and to play that act as an Aspie is going to be a challenge at best by simple virtue of poor social skills.

It doesn't mean Aspies can't pull stunts like that. It just means that it's not going to be as likely. And, I'd have to agree with just about everything else that Ichinin wrote.


@Pandoran-March, honestly I don't know where you're getting your information, but it is absolutely incorrect. Dysfunctional behavior is an equal opportunity destroyer. Asperger's Syndrome absolutely does not provide any type of barrier, natural or otherwise, to it. Aspies do indeed play devious social games - and no, there is no absolute dependence on social cues required to play them. Aspies manipulate; Aspies lie; Aspies cheat - just like everybody else. To say that somehow an Aspie is less likely to engage in dysfunctional behavior is a damaging falsehood. Care to back that up with some type of empirical evidence? Cause I'd like to hear something more than conjecture. Frankly, your conjecture doesn't negate my experience.

Aspies are products of their environments, just like everybody else. The choice to lie, cheat, manipulate, and in any other way behave badly is related to an individual's character and psychological health. Neural status doesn't determine how manipulative, honest, decent, loving or loyal a person is going to be. Can an Aspie be honest, decent, loyal, loving? You bet. Can an Aspie be dishonest, disloyal, indecent, angry and hateful? You bet. To posit that neural status is a determining factor in one's character is absolutely untrue, and does more harm than good. Can you even imagine making a statement that all NTs are honest, decent, loyal and loving? Of course not, because we can all point to examples of NTs that don't fit that description. Yet somehow its completely acceptable to hold out an example of bad behavior and not only state that its an example of the way all NTs behave, but to become insulting and insolent when the validity of that premise is challenged. Yes, some NTs behave badly, but to generalize that behavior to 99% of the world's population is inaccurate, ignorant, and to be blunt - spreads hate. And I think that sucks.


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08 Jun 2010, 9:22 am

HopeGrows wrote:
Aspies manipulate; Aspies lie; Aspies cheat - just like everybody else. To say that somehow an Aspie is less likely to engage in dysfunctional behavior is a damaging falsehood. Care to back that up with some type of empirical evidence?
Dr. Teresa Bolick, Dr. Tony Attwood, and Dierdre Lovecky wrote:
They are usually free from sexism or racism. They do not manipulate people but speak out frankly and honestly. They are sincere truth-tellers, whose naivety and trusting nature makes them incapable of backstabbing. As employees, they are completely dependable and follow the rules of the job. Psychologist Teresa Bolick writes, "Their deficits are actually assets, as they are unfettered by convention or manners.
That is not to say impossible, but definitely less likely.
http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/benefits.html
http://www.aspergermanagement.com/honesty-integrity


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HopeGrows
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08 Jun 2010, 1:19 pm

Mudboy wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
Aspies manipulate; Aspies lie; Aspies cheat - just like everybody else. To say that somehow an Aspie is less likely to engage in dysfunctional behavior is a damaging falsehood. Care to back that up with some type of empirical evidence?
Dr. Teresa Bolick, Dr. Tony Attwood, and Dierdre Lovecky wrote:
They are usually free from sexism or racism. They do not manipulate people but speak out frankly and honestly. They are sincere truth-tellers, whose naivety and trusting nature makes them incapable of backstabbing. As employees, they are completely dependable and follow the rules of the job. Psychologist Teresa Bolick writes, "Their deficits are actually assets, as they are unfettered by convention or manners.
That is not to say impossible, but definitely less likely.
http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/benefits.html
http://www.aspergermanagement.com/honesty-integrity


Perhaps Dr. Teresa Bolick, Dr. Tony Attwood, and Dierdre Lovecky would care to peruse this forum? Their study of the Aspie experiences recounted in this forum could actually advance the study of Asperger's. That is, if they're interested in reading about the real-life experiences of Aspies that completely contradict their theories.

This forum is loaded with first-hand accounts of manipulation, lying, cruelty, etc. perpetrated by Aspies. Believe me, I probably have read a fraction of the threads in the L&D forum alone, but I've still found a ton of examples of this behavior. One recent thread was posted by an Aspie who fronted NT behavior long enough to get a gf, knock her up, have a child with her - but now can't stand the pressure of fronting any longer and doesn't understand why she won't accept him for who he "truly" is. That is an example of world class lying and manipulation - worthy of any NT. There's a kid here (seemingly a pretty nice kid) who's involved with a hot bipolar young lady. He knows he can't handle the stress of dealing with her on a long-term basis, but she's the hottest piece of a$$ he's ever been with - so he's content to continue sleeping with her while he looks for another girl. He believes they're actually using each other, and maybe they are. But allowing an emotional investment to grow when you know you want out of the relationship isn't exactly honest or sincere, is it?

Those are two threads off the top of my head. There are dozens, perhaps hundreds like them in this forum alone. I have had real-life experience with Aspies that also completely contradicts the good doctors' theories. There is absolutely nothing about having Asperger's that somehow immunizes a person against the impact of their environment. If you're raised by people who lie and cheat, you're going to believe that lying and cheating is normal behavior. If you're raised by people who abuse, you will accept abusive behavior as normal, and you will likely either become an abuser, or choose an abusive partner. Aspies suffer the same type of damage, the same type of pain, the same type emotional difficulties as any NT that is subjected to an abusive environment. There may be differences in how that damage and pain is processed, but the consequences are just as devastating.

To claim that Aspies are "sincere truth tellers" is outrageous. I'm sure many Aspies are sincere truth tellers, and their Aspieness might tend to make them more vocal. But being honest is not a consequence of having Asperger's - its a consequence of the values instilled by parents. And "incapable of backstabbing?" Give me a f*cking break. Again, take a look at this forum - for that matter, take a look at this thread. All I had to do was mention that the OP described herself as an undiagnosed Aspie and not an NT, and the NT bashing began: "So, excuse me but she sounds VERY neurotypical, she plays these social games with the guy (a very neurotypical trait) and wonders why he reacts differently from the normal guys that insist on praising girls to high heavens, even if they treat the guys like crap." I'm sorry, but taking quotes out of context, putting words into another person's mouth, ignoring the substance of a post because it doesn't support your skewed perspective are all pretty good examples of backstabbing behavior to me. And free from sexism? Have you read some of the misogynistic posts on this forum? They're dreadful - and sexist.

I'm sorry, but perpetuating the myth that all Aspies possess these fine qualities does so much more harm than good. There are many, many fine Aspies and NTs of good character in this world. There are many, many Aspies and NTs who have the potential to be fine people of good character - provided they're given the proper support to heal the damage from their past and relearn how to live life and make decisions as a person of good character. But character is learned - its not a birthright, and therefore not a product of neural status.


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Last edited by HopeGrows on 08 Jun 2010, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sophq
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08 Jun 2010, 1:28 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
...long awesome post by HopeGrows


My AS ex had a complete inability to lie. He could only speak the truth. But the reality is that he didn't know when he was lying to himself AND he was unable to fully comprehend the context of a situation. Thus he was, de facto, constantly lying and telling mistruths and partial truths. But he was totally unable to see this. So he does believe that he is the most honest person alive. So strong is this belief that any attempt to show him evidence of the contrary is automatically rejected, because his primary assumption about himself and the world is that "He cannot lie."



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08 Jun 2010, 2:19 pm

Mudboy wrote:
That is not to say impossible, but definitely less likely.
HopeGrows, I provided evidence from two doctors and two renown authors, and provided a caveat for you. Your personal history may be different, but overall, the vast majority of people on the spectrum do not play those games.


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Last edited by Mudboy on 08 Jun 2010, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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08 Jun 2010, 2:51 pm

sophq wrote:
..long awesome post by HopeGrows


agreed! I've actually been stunned at some of the situations I've read in Love&Dating and the Haven. The latter is arguably even more annoying because if you point out to someone that their behaviour is 100% manipulative and out of line, then you get this wail of "but it's the HAa-ven...." /rant



HopeGrows
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08 Jun 2010, 4:09 pm

Mudboy wrote:
Mudboy wrote:
That is not to say impossible, but definitely less likely.
HopeGrows, I provided evidence from two doctors and two renown authors, and provided a caveat for you. Your personal history may be different, but overall, the vast majority of people on the spectrum do not play those games.


@Mudboy, what you haven't provided is any type of statistical data to support the assertions of these doctors, or your assertion that the "vast majority" of people on the spectrum do not "play these games." I'm not basing my conclusions solely on my own experience - look at this forum. Are the people who post here somehow not representative of people on the spectrum? Only people at the ends of the bell curve post here? HA! The doctors you've quoted might want to look at Wrong Planet if they want to get a real world perspective of what life is like for an Aspie - one that is not scrubbed and polished for a clinical interview or survey.


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