Guys with Aspergers...are we a catch-22?

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What I mean is, we weren't born with the social skills/social intelligence/outgoingness, etc. that attracts women...but on the other hand...most of us haven't been given the chance and haven't had the opportunity to develop these skills and also take women/dating/sex off a pedestal. If anything, not getting women/dating/sex or whatever the individual case may be has only made us want it more, which is fruitless anyway since we probably don't have the capability.

The only reason I even know as much as I do about women and relationships (Which isn't even a lot, just more than the average young Aspie) is because I've studied this like a special interest for years and learned a lot when briefly dating a hot girl. While I did all of the work to meet her and keep her interest for a while, I still wouldn't have had the opportunity had it not been for facebook.

So where does this leave the average young Aspie if his special interests lie elsewhere, doesn't devote the time to improve his social skills and learn dating 101, and he isn't as persistent, even a la internet dating? Pretty much screwed, right?

And the thing is, women aren't going to "give us a chance"...we have to change, not the other way around. So are Aspie men even to blame for their failures with women?

I can see your point. I imagine it would be really nice to have a girlfriend, but I don't know what it's like. Companies tend to hire the applicant with the most experience; but how can you get experience if no one will hire you? I just hope that at the least it takes us longer to reach the same goal but we reach it eventually.

This may sound funny, but I'm looking for a girl by not looking for her. I try and need to try harder in working on normal social interaction and limiting the reasons for people avoiding me based on physical appearance.

I think one day our chance will come.

Not screwed, no, but we have to work harder at it. I don't think we're born with less social intelligence or social skills, but that some of us are born with aspects of our personalities that make it harder for us to develop those skills - for instance, many of us feel more comfortable in quieter, less busy places than in crowded, social environments. We also may not be naturally comfortable with subtle forms of communication, or being spontaneous or initiating. As a result, we get fewer opportunities, and therefore less experience and social skills. Are we to blame for our struggles in this area? No. Does it matter? Not to me, no. It doesn't mean we can't get what we want, doesn't mean we're screwed. It's just that we have to really work at things that others get more naturally, and take advantage of every opportunity we get - if not directly, then indirectly by learning from it and not making the same mistakes twice. I failed (but learned) many times before I had any kind of success.

This is a great analogy. There are two options I've found so far: "employers" who have fallen on hard times and feel it's time to change their hiring practices, and "employers" who want to start their business with you and don't have any experience yet either. I prefer the latter, but you'll have to search.

This entire discussion is defeatist nonsense. Its only true if you believe it.

Put yourself where the girls are and you'll meet them. So social interaction is awkward and difficult? So effing what? You only learn it if you put yourself out there and force yourself to do it. If you fail, take some time to recuperate and go back out there and do it again. So you may never be as smooth as some of the Non-Autistic guys who seem to hookup without even thinking about it, big deal. Not all girls like those glib, smooth talking, overconfident meatheads - some girls actually like guys who are quiet and smart.

The only thing holding you back is the notion you've brainwashed yourself with, that guys with AS are such dorks they can't talk to girls and girls smell them coming and run. That's a load of horse manure and I've got years of experience to prove it. Its seeing threads like this that make me glad I didn't know about my AS when I was younger. I knew I was awkward, but I had no reason to believe I would NEVER get dates or get laid, so I just did it.

AS is not chick repellent, but that air of defeat and desperation sure is.


And if you're worried about not getting 'hired' for lack of experience, do what the others guys do - bluff your way in, and don't tell anybody you're a newbie. Unless you've already tattooed VIRGIN on your forehead, no one's gonna know, until you're already on the job. And by then...you'll have some experience.

^^That's what I'm talkin' about.

I wouldn't see it that way at all. As a female, I tend to be really drawn to guys who are socially direct (possibly to the point of clumsiness... it's kind of cute,) not at all romantically oriented (externally, in the "gushy" sense) and, most importantly, willing to speak with me on an intellectual level. Also, I think lots of other girls would be turned off by a guy who had a lot of "experience" in the context of dating - the feeling of being someone's equal or even superior in terms of such experience might be comforting for a girl who's feeling nervous about a first date.

I know a guy who behaves as if he has Asperger's and he's probably one of my only friends. I love being around him, near him and listening to him talk about his special interests (although sometimes I have to prompt him to explain concepts I don't understand,) and if I didn't consider our friendship so immensely valuable (and, well, if he didn't proclaim himself uninterested in such matters) I'd be driven to seek him out as a romantic prospect.

Basically, some girls like guys who are more experienced and smooth-talking Cassanovas, some are smitten by intellectual talk and a modicum of social clumsiness. It depends, but by no means are girls one-sided in that capacity, at least from what I've observed. Your biggest problem? Probably that sometimes, guys with Asperger's might seem unapproachable to girls because they'd assume the guy wasn't interested in them - a lot of women are insecure about themselves to some extent and won't pursue a guy unless he participates in courtship with them, even if they like him a great deal. But I can't see where anything common to people with Asperger's would be a major turn-off for most girls.

Last edited by Phoros on 02 Aug 2010, 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do agree that AS guys are behind when it comes to dating, but we're far from screwed. It just takes some work. However, being bitter about the fact it might be a bit harder for you won't help.

What helped me a lot was planning. I'd work on my look, plan my approach, my first few questions, how to answer possible questions that came up, etc.... Just putting together a few lines of material helped a lot. It's not like I read a script, but had a few witty things to say when things got too quiet. It wasn't much different than training for a job interview, and got better each time.

Also, girls aren't that difficult. Having a regular conversation is usually good enough to keep them interested. Just gotta learn when to make a move (which can also be perfected with planning).

Unfortunately, this is the case, even when you correct the behavior and attitude to the best of your ability. Women are extremely intelligent social creatures, and can sense even the smallest fraction of a difference in a guy.

However, you can "fake it until you make it" and fool most people by improving body language, posture, and demeanor...but go to a bar, as an Aspie guy, and you'll stand out like a sore thumb because of the social intelligence exuded by the people there.

Also, even if you get in the door of a relationship with a combination of looks and improved personality, your AS will come out...and a sad fact is that a majority of women are turned off by Aspie traits...the brutal honesty, obsessive interests, lack of interest in going out in groups and socializing.

Spot on Willard - the rest of your post too.

I want a girlfriend more than anything right now...but I think that I'm pretty much a lost cause in that matter

Tim (aka the Slipperman)

As I said in my last post, though, I just don't think this is true. In a bar scene, sure, an AS guy probably wouldn't be as gaudy or self-assured as a NT guy. But in general social situations, where those arbitrary rules aren't present and the set goal isn't a hookup, I would select the company of a direct guy who's willing to lecture and teach me on his interests (I'm a glutton for learning things,) and who - if this makes sense - prefers a more "intimate," by that I mean intellectually intimate, form of conversation in that he'd rather limit his socializing to one or a few individuals at a time rather than a party or peer-group scenario where there's no way to discuss anything meaningful.

As for looks, also, that's extremely subjective on the part of the girl - some like strong, plain-looking guys, other pretty, nerdy types, still others, such as myself, could hardly care less about how he looks so long as he can debate Socrates. There's no such thing as a universally handsome man.

Cookie for you Phoros, I like the way you think, although it's a lot harder to find that kind of guy than a decorative one

I stopped at this for you even making the assumption that an NT is more intelligent than me! All the NT's I have met are ridiculously stupid, arrogant, and only interested in the things of today. Sure there are some intelligent NT's but to state they are more intelligent than us or me? Not even going to listen.

I'm not talking book intelligence, I'm talking social intelligence...and yes, NTs are more socially intelligent than us...socially intelligent doesn't mean "better."

Also, the NT bashing is likely a turn-off to women.

I don't really know what a "Catch 22" is, but if it means that Aspie guys want hot women for sex/ love, whatever, without taking the effort to do what it takes to get those hot girls then I would say yes.

Catch 22 is like, one thing contradicts the other...for example, you need experience to get a job, but you need a job in the first place to get the experience.