Intellectual compatibility = utimate AS hurdle in dating?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Sep 2010, 9:05 am

hale_bopp wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Humans' brains didn't evolve to be attracted to 0.1% or 0.5% of the opposite sex , I can hardly believe this thing is "instinct" because "instinct" tells us to be attracted to a lot of people , not to 0.1% or even 1%.
Unless if sunshower and the other ladies who are like her have a different biological component that make them hard to be attracted to any of the 99% of men (in case they're hetero) , as if they are a different human subspecies.


Do you have any facts to back this up? It sounds more like you're taking yourself as an example and basing everyone on that like the rest of us are wrong. I also don't think that most people aren't like this. People hook up too easily, and half the time they break up or get divorced because it's not a good match. Too many people settle for others that aren't a true match and they get nothing out of it in the long run except heart beak for one person or both. I don't see anything wrong with trying to avoid that.

Quote:
Your problem might be a problem of belief and self-brainwashing , keep saying to yourself everyday "I am very unique, I am very unique , I am very unique..." thousands of times and you'll end up really believing yourself as a very unique gem, and you start failing to connect to any other person unless if you perceive him/her as "unique" as you.


I don't think thats it, really. I mean really really. It doesn't even go through peoples heads. Why would you even think that?

^ My example was figurative , the self-brainwashing doesn't happen directly like that....
Best example of this kind of self-brainwashing is WP' s Autism section. "Autism = Good" as the WP's google title shows , and the loads of threads that promote how unique , evolved species and special aspies are ..... (I am sure you know what I mean). Good that lately some users are starting to resist that mentality here. Those aspies who regularly make such threads are victims of self-brainwashing and hence become more distant from people.



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Do you have any facts to back this up? It sounds more like you're taking yourself as an example and basing everyone on that like the rest of us are wrong. I also don't think that most people aren't like this. People hook up too easily, and half the time they break up or get divorced because it's not a good match. Too many people settle for others that aren't a true match and they get nothing out of it in the long run except heart beak for one person or both. I don't see anything wrong with trying to avoid that.


I am taking myself as an example + 99% of the people I know in real life. The 1% just to represents uncertainty about 1 or 2 persons I know.



Merle
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25 Sep 2010, 12:18 pm

ladyrain wrote:
Merle wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Since 99.5% or 99.9% of people are not good enough for you guys then maybe you have to join some club for geniuses. There would be a concentration of 0.1% of people there.

Been there and done that.

Me too. I had the same idea in my late twenties - perhaps outright intelligence was a factor to explore, even though it went against my belief that tests do not define people. It was a pleasant enough experience, although disappointing overall, and I did actually find the elitism there unwarranted. I really don't think IQ equates to open-thinking, and if anything, I would say that the greater the self-importance, the more closed-minded a person becomes.


It must have been a 20's thing. When I hit my 30's, I really didn't care if I fit in or not. However, in my (your?) 20's, you're seeking to find your place and a community with which you can fit - obviously didn't work. You're thinking "Hey, 145+ on the various IQ tests, MENSA must be the right spot for me." And they're right, there are people from all walks of life. The conversations are/were interesting but the "click" with the folks there wasn't there for me.

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Boo, I think your assumption of elitism is misplaced. It isn't about choice, and it isn't about people not being good enough. It's a question of what the elusive factor is that makes people 'connect', and why, for some of us, it is so rare as to be almost non-existent. And I totally agree with the points about not even recognising your own feelings - that is not something which can be easily counteracted, mind-blindness is a real problem.


Exactly. That "click" of connection has only happened ONCE in my life. Everyone else either doesn't seem like they'll understand (you try and talk and share a little) or actually don't understand. Makes a tough and lonely world.

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Just like every other 'thing' that comes up with AS, if the same situation is experienced by others, then maybe the assumptions we have each made individually are based on too little, or the wrong, information. Is it just rarity, or is it another impact of AS?
Gromit wrote:
of AS. The ability to recognize and work with the cues given makes it tougher. Combine it with "birds of a feather" and "kind seeks kind", we run into a rarified group with the average emotional quotient of idiots. Then we get little to no practice and see little to no worth in practicing with people.

Gromit wrote:
Although my experience is limited, I think part of that sense of connection you talk about is confidence that you know what matters to the other, confidence that you can offer something that matters to the other, and that you care what matters to the other. Then that has to be mutual. The caring may be easy, the other two parts are difficult, and can fall apart very quickly.

I think Gromit has a good point here. It must be mutual.

Perhaps we do not trigger that mutuality in others. In fact this could be a common problem for people generally - that everyone holds back until they feel they might be accepted. It's wrong to assume that most people are more confident and self-assured than we are - when it comes to potential relationships, most people become acutely aware of their own 'deficits'.


I disagree but on slightly different grounds.. I have no problem exuding confidence and impressing folks (either of the sexes). It's relatively easy (not personally as it takes effort) to score a date. I just know it's not going to go anywhere. No, I don't put out a "doom and gloom" but like any game, you think several moves ahead, recognize the desires and wants of your opponent (actually SO) and can see where they want the game to wind up. You see the person they're going to be and how much effort it'll take to make it work and say "no thanks".


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Not recognising another's interest is definitely a problem, and the only way to approach that differently is to decide that it might be there, rather than assume it isn't. If someone choses to spend time with you, it is probable that they like you, but they may be hoping to get some indication that you like them.


You fake it. And you can fake it well. However, it must be understood that though it's relatively easy to get someone to like you... And this is speaking for myself... Few people meet the bar where I think I'll consider them as long term mates/spouses.

Quote:
Almost all of us have been 'misunderstood', so there is a very good chance that even if we are interested in someone else, it doesn't show. Gromit said 'the caring may be easy' - but showing it might not be. If we want to have more potential to connect with other people then perhaps we need to make a point of telling people when we have enjoyed their company - just in case they did not realise, due to odd body language and facial expressions! Perhaps we assume too much about how we are perceived, and forget how 'unreadable' we can be.


There are two sides to this thread

1. An AS person being unable to communicate their feelings to someone, someone they care deeply for and in effect hurting/pushing that individual away because of the coldness of the relationship.
2. A person unable to find what they need in a relationship (the AS person in particular) because of their "IQ" therefore being unable and unwilling to accept the relationship and feel that to accept the relationship is to "settle"

IMO, that is what makes it difficult. We may seperate ourselves from mates because we feel we don't need to give 100% because the person is not 100% of what we desire. However, because we lack practice in relationships, when that person does come into our lives, our lack of experience with how to deal with a relationship (including how to properly express yourself) comes into play and we lose the one who could have made us "whole".



Werecrocodile
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25 Sep 2010, 12:28 pm

This point has already been talked about, forget this.



Merle
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25 Sep 2010, 12:46 pm

Werecrocodile wrote:
This point has already been talked about, forget this.


If this were a wiki sight, you'd post a link to the relevant article. However this is a discussion forum and many people are loquacious. This gives old timers and new people a venue to rehash old topics under the guise of "its new to someone".

Don't like it - just hit the back button and let the folks who want to talk about it have a venue.

Many of the issues "on the internet" have been discussed to death. You can find discussions pertaining to any field archived somewhere - but that doesn't prevent someone from going and starting up the subject.



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25 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm

Merle wrote:
Werecrocodile wrote:
This point has already been talked about, forget this.


If this were a wiki sight, you'd post a link to the relevant article. However this is a discussion forum and many people are loquacious. This gives old timers and new people a venue to rehash old topics under the guise of "its new to someone".

Don't like it - just hit the back button and let the folks who want to talk about it have a venue.

Many of the issues "on the internet" have been discussed to death. You can find discussions pertaining to any field archived somewhere - but that doesn't prevent someone from going and starting up the subject.


I wasn't being specific enough, you misunderstood me.

There wasn't any point for me to rehash things when they are explained better than my view.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Sep 2010, 1:19 pm

^ and why you had the urge to talk in the first place? :lol:



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Sep 2010, 1:34 pm

from another thread:

hyperlexian wrote:

how about i annoy you with my theory... i have a theory that we CAN change what we are attracted to. it constantly changes on its own anyways, i.e. i don't like the same specific things in males that i went for when i was 15 years old, nor what i found attractive at 25. it's not like we are born preferring a certain type, or that type would remain static throughout our lives.

in my theory (based only on observation, not facts) think we can change our own preferences with a little openmindedness and experience.


have a nice forum day, sunflower.



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30 Sep 2010, 4:29 am

^ ^ What is 'The Face of Boo', anyway? Is it like some sort of artefact or something?


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Merle
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30 Sep 2010, 1:05 pm

mysassyself wrote:
^ ^ What is 'The Face of Boo', anyway? Is it like some sort of artefact or something?


Dr. Who reference I believe (new version) with the guy being basically immortal. It's a reference to where he grew up and he adopted the name.



poopylungstuffing
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01 Oct 2010, 4:09 pm

I am facing this hurdle in the sense that my intellectual strengths may often seem very latent due to my lack of emotional maturity..I am currently taking a stab at dating a really very intelligent guy..He is more "NT" than me...He is college educated...whereas I could not hack it very well in college and did not do well...did not have any financial or peer support...etc....Was dealing with too many things and issues at the time...and well...I just didn't get very far....
Anyway..I have also had this weird isolated existence that sorta has left me out of touch with a lot of stuff....He is more NT than I am....AND more intelligent in ways where I have difficulty....etc....He is way more "culturally savvy"...and it just sorta makes me hyper-aware of my shortcomings and dysfunctions in a lot of areas...

It causes me a lot of anxiety...even though I do like him...and we get along...and I enjoy his company...and I assume that enjoys mine as he has to sorta go out of his way to spent time with me and he does...He even used the "L" word on me...(which caused me a buncha gnarly emotional hangups)...I have had people use that word on me and not mean it...or regret it and I had a dream shortly thereafter in which he detracted the statement...



mysassyself
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01 Oct 2010, 8:53 pm

poopylungstuffing wrote:
I am facing this hurdle in the sense that my intellectual strengths may often seem very latent due to my lack of emotional maturity..I am currently taking a stab at dating a really very intelligent guy..He is more "NT" than me...He is college educated...whereas I could not hack it very well in college and did not do well...did not have any financial or peer support...etc....Was dealing with too many things and issues at the time...and well...I just didn't get very far....
Anyway..I have also had this weird isolated existence that sorta has left me out of touch with a lot of stuff....He is more NT than I am....AND more intelligent in ways where I have difficulty....etc....He is way more "culturally savvy"...and it just sorta makes me hyper-aware of my shortcomings and dysfunctions in a lot of areas...

It causes me a lot of anxiety...even though I do like him...and we get along...and I enjoy his company...and I assume that enjoys mine as he has to sorta go out of his way to spent time with me and he does...He even used the "L" word on me...(which caused me a buncha gnarly emotional hangups)...I have had people use that word on me and not mean it...or regret it and I had a dream shortly thereafter in which he detracted the statement...


For what it's worth, take it easy and keep going, I think. He obviously likes you for you, and is probably quite aware that you have your differences. It's probably what makes you interesting :)


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02 Oct 2010, 8:27 pm

sluice wrote:
It still seems to me you guys are trying to make this into a business transaction. Intellectual compability is nice and all for a dinner conversation, but love is supposed to be about feelings and emotions and passion not a merger of minds.


i don't see it that way at all.

there are no feelings for me without some sort of intellectual compatibility, and it's been said before in this thread but i will reiterate: that isn't about having an enormous IQ and requiring someone who has an equally enormous IQ. it's about finding someone that makes some sense to you. i would retitle the idea "brain wiring compatibility"

a business transaction would be a "trophy wife" type situation, or someone with someone else because of the impression it gives others or for the security (or the relief of loneliness) but not love.

i'm a bit stunned to see how negative some of the responses are to this post. what's the alternative for people who feel this way? spend time with people that don't really engage you just so you don't have to be alone? that's unfair to the other person and dishonest. i like to be alone. i don't seek people out just to have company. i don't lack for anyone. i am hungry for engagement with someone, in a way, but it's not the same thing as lonely.

a merger of minds is exactly what i'm after. that's what would ignite a partnership type situation for me.

there arent going to be many guys suitable for me, and i know that, but i am not suitable for many either. there are things i can offer, and lots of things i can't. those i would not go for would probably not be happy with me either.

ladyrain wrote:
Almost all of us have been 'misunderstood', so there is a very good chance that even if we are interested in someone else, it doesn't show. Gromit said 'the caring may be easy' - but showing it might not be. If we want to have more potential to connect with other people then perhaps we need to make a point of telling people when we have enjoyed their company - just in case they did not realise, due to odd body language and facial expressions! Perhaps we assume too much about how we are perceived, and forget how 'unreadable' we can be.


in my experience if someone is going to read you wrong they will continue to do so when you explain (unless your body language / affect match what you are communicating verbally - so says my therapist) unless they have a similar way of communicating, i.e. in words.

so another point: i am tired of being misread. i want to be myself. if i cannot sustain something by being me, then let it fall apart.


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Merle
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03 Oct 2010, 1:28 am

You've come very close to how I think and feel.

katzefrau wrote:
there are no feelings for me without some sort of intellectual compatibility


For me there are, but those feelings aren't sufficient enough to start a relationship (or sustain for more than a few months).

Quote:
and it's been said before in this thread but i will reiterate: that isn't about having an enormous IQ and requiring someone who has an equally enormous IQ. it's about finding someone that makes some sense to you. i would retitle the idea "brain wiring compatibility"


Yes. Ranging from 143-153 (bad -> good day), combined with why I am posting on this board narrows down the field.

Quote:
a business transaction would be a "trophy wife" type situation, or someone with someone else because of the impression it gives others or for the security (or the relief of loneliness) but not love.


Humored it for a phase of my life but ultimately disregarded it.

Quote:
i'm a bit stunned to see how negative some of the responses are to this post. what's the alternative for people who feel this way? spend time with people that don't really engage you just so you don't have to be alone? that's unfair to the other person and dishonest. i like to be alone. i don't seek people out just to have company. i don't lack for anyone. i am hungry for engagement with someone, in a way, but it's not the same thing as lonely.


Because they don't understand. Yes, pretty droll, but that's the gist of it. I *can* be alone, and can find pleasure in doing things (e.g. reading a book, playing out doors, spending money, etc.) which don't require another person. It's a piece of me which is lacking, but it's not something I feel the need to sacrifice my core being to deal with.

Quote:
a merger of minds is exactly what i'm after. that's what would ignite a partnership type situation for me.


Here I am 20+ years of searching and and still looking :) These people exist, right? I mean, you read about them so they must exist ;)

Quote:
there arent going to be many guys suitable for me, and i know that, but i am not suitable for many either. there are things i can offer, and lots of things i can't. those i would not go for would probably not be happy with me either.


Yes. I wholeheartedly agree.

Quote:
in my experience if someone is going to read you wrong they will continue to do so when you explain (unless your body language / affect match what you are communicating verbally - so says my therapist) unless they have a similar way of communicating, i.e. in words.

so another point: i am tired of being misread. i want to be myself. if i cannot sustain something by being me, then let it fall apart.


Yes. I do waffle while in various social settings, but at some point I need to return to who I am. It's tiring being someone else.

BTW (not to nitpick) but you seem intelligent and don't seem the sort to take this the wrong way... I'm fairly sure that ie refers to a finite and exclusive list. So if you're talking "communicating" and ONLY "in words" then i.e. is appropriate.

For example, when describing the primary colors (i.e. red blue yellow). However, when using "an example" e.g. is appropriate such as when describing colors (e.g. blue, green, purple etc.) in general.

Damn. Power has been out in my neck of Tahoe for 6 hours and my computers/blackberry are out of juice. And here I am posting on WP to bide my time.



katzefrau
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03 Oct 2010, 1:54 am

Merle wrote:
BTW (not to nitpick) but you seem intelligent and don't seem the sort to take this the wrong way... I'm fairly sure that ie refers to a finite and exclusive list. So if you're talking "communicating" and ONLY "in words" then i.e. is appropriate.

For example, when describing the primary colors (i.e. red blue yellow). However, when using "an example" e.g. is appropriate such as when describing colors (e.g. blue, green, purple etc.) in general.


ah jeez. e.g. doesn't look or sound as good to me but that's a dumb reason to use i.e. instead if it's not precisely right.

do they come from latin? i don't know any latin. i'll never remember which means which unless i know how they translate.

thanks for the clarification and for appreciating my post.


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techstepgenr8tion
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03 Oct 2010, 9:26 am

Merle wrote:
Because they don't understand. Yes, pretty droll, but that's the gist of it. I *can* be alone, and can find pleasure in doing things (e.g. reading a book, playing out doors, spending money, etc.) which don't require another person. It's a piece of me which is lacking, but it's not something I feel the need to sacrifice my core being to deal with.

Yeah, ambition becomes me these days - I feel like life's utterly lost without it and likely because that piece is missing. It'll be interesting to see where I'm at and what I'm doing at 35 though, I have a feeling the next few years are going to be quite an adventure.



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03 Oct 2010, 9:57 am

Isn't it supposed to be "the Face of Boe"?