Intellectual compatibility = utimate AS hurdle in dating?

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I browse this forum from time to time, and I've noticed that people tend to highlight not being able to attract partners as the main reason why Aspies struggle to find relationships.

In my experiences I have found this is not the case. In the last few years, I have been able to attract potential partners relatively effectively, and have been asked out or approached by several people, but I have been unsuccessful in having a relationship. The reason for this is that I have found it almost impossible to find anyone who is intellectually compatible with me; referring to mental similarity or mentally complimenting in this context, not simply intelligence.

I have often considered just trying to date men I am not attracted or "connected" to (I find I only truly become physically attracted to a man after I become mentally connected), but I have been unable to bring myself to do it, as it feels pointless, dishonest, and deeply 'wrong'.

I don't believe my standards are too high, or that I am just being too picky; as I don't even have fixed criteria or anything like that (apart from them being a good person and not an as*hole), and I am happy to try dating anyone even if we have dissimilar interests, or their values don't fully correspond. The only thing I require is that initial attraction and *connection* and I find that 99.9% of the time it's just not there.

I don't think that my problem is that I am homosexual or asexual because I have been attracted to and pursued guys (and solely guys) in the past.

I have met many many different guys in the past few years, it's not because I just don't meet people - I am a busy person with a varied and reasonably social lifestyle.

This lack of intellectual compatibility seems to be the ultimate hurdle for me that I just can't conquer. I can try all sorts of techniques to try and meet more people, or increase my attractiveness, but I cannot fabricate intellectual connection with another. I wonder if this is due to my AS and just being an "alien" or whether this is just an individual personal problem I have, as I've hardly ever heard aspies on here reference lack of intellectual connection as a root cause of their problems in dating...

I have the same problem It's not an intellectual connection i'm after though, it's a spiritual one. I don't even know if I can pick these men out.

The last guy I spiritually connected with I didn't even admit to liking him for a long time, because I seriously didn't know I liked him until I thought he had found someone else.

The signs were there that I was into him. But I didn't and couldn't pick up on it. I mean how am I supposed to spiritually, mentally and intellectually connect with a guy if I can't even recognose what I want myself when its right in front of my face?

I don't know if it's the same problem, but I'm prepared to be single for a long time.

Unlike a lot of men (not all, but many) I don't just want to shag or date someone who looks attactive and is "nice to me". If that spiritual connection is not there, its a complete and utter waste of time.

Thats what a spark is.. it's a spiritual electricity... electrical for those athiests out there but it's there regardless of what you believe.

As we all know

"You can't start a fire, you can't start a fire without a spark" (I could say this guns for hire, even if we're dancing in the dark but that sounds too cheesy. Spark thing is true though. )

Although with dating I think one thing is important. Don't try and force dates with people.. I mean don't go on a date with some guy in an attempt to get to know him.. thats what I mean. Best to get to know people out of the whole forced "dating" state of mind.

I am on a dating site and am going to close my account because its useless. Physically "attractive" guys almost do nothing for me, so naturally looking at someones picture is pointless, and the whole idea seems forced... like throwing two people into a room and saying "get to know each other and maybe you will want to date".

I just know they'll never work for me. There is one man i've met on the internet in the past who was very very skilled with charming a lady and he stoped emailing me in the end, i don't know why but theres no point worrying about it, probably a good thing, probably would have broken my heart.

Last edited by hale_bopp on 14 Sep 2010, 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

You're not alone, I'm exactly like this, too. I just don't find myself attracted to 99.99% of the guys out there. You just can't fake that, and I've done the whole "go out on lots of dates, give someone a try" thing and it just seems pointless to me. I even give everyone two dates in order to see if the first date was just a one-off fluke, but nope! I feel bad; they're not bad people, just not for me.

I think it may be the same problem hale_bopp, but we're just describing it using different words. It's difficult to describe - but I think we have both said it's a sense of "connection" or "spark" that's either there or not there.

I do find though that in my case I tend to know straight away when it's there, but it just hardly ever seems to BE there, which is very frustrating.

Although, another possibility I hadn't considered up until now, is that maybe I am like you and that connection is there more often than I realize, but I don't know (and in many cases, never know) that it exists at all. If this were the case, it would explain a lot...

I have sometimes thought perhaps it's like this for everyone, and it's always only very very occasionally that two people have that initial "connection" or "spark", but from my observations I don't think this is the case. I think that it definitely doesn't happen all the time for other people, but it's nowhere near as rare as it seems to be for us (a.k.a. for other single people it seems to occur around once a month maybe... for me, I consider myself lucky if it happens even once a year)..

Yeah that can't be easy. I think i'm in denial a lot of the time. I probably knew too, and just denied it because I was scared.

Theres nothing wrong with being picky. One day you might find the one man who makes it worth it. Thing is, I don't actually think these other single people get a spark all the time. Look at how most relationsips end. A spark or true spiritual connection imo is a love that won't ever die.

Its very easy to get involved with people just because they're there.. and I think thats what most people actually do.

I'm a lot older than you, sunshower, and here's how I think it shakes out:

Our "wiring" makes us more physiologically cautious than most (for most things). I think this extends to, for lack of a better term, "mating." Our culture has applied so many layers of BS on top of what should be a natural process that it's difficult to tell what's normal and what isn't. Add ASD on top of that, and you'll always have a weird soup. Regardless, I think this extreme caution (or lack of comfort in another's presence) is what's natural for us. No, there's no explaining it to someone who doesn't experience this: regardless of similar interests, if there's no "comfort" in someone's presence right away, your body says, "Why bother?" That's not to say you couldn't ultimately feel comfortable (or a spark of connection), it just doesn't happen in the timetable society tells us is normal. Like with many other aspects of modern living, we just have to develop workarounds. That's fine for some things, but with intimate connections you don't really want to rely on a "workaround."

Of course, the one man I felt connected to in the last fifteen years I ended up marrying and divorcing (he turned out to be such a complete creep - really, a borderline sociopath) and now I distrust all of my "instincts." I've tried dating people I have no real connection with and pfft, what a waste. So, I think your instincts are true, everyone just needs to have a very good screening process. I wish I had had one; I was just too naive, even in my late 30's.

I keep feeling like I should make myself do that, like maybe that's what I'm supposed to be doing, but I just can't bring myself to. It feels like trying to force myself to date my brother or something

It seems like it just can't be right, other people must be feeling something (even if it's not as strong maybe??).

I've occasionally dated girls who ended up being significantly less intelligent than me. I can't say that it didn't bother me when I reflected on it at the time, but it didn't stop me from dating them anyways, for as long as it took them to get tired of me and let me go. The difference here is simply the difference between men and women, particularly aspies: Women want men they're compatible with, and men want women who like them. For the sake of getting a girlfriend who'll kiss them and hold their hand in public, many guys here would accept a 20-30 point IQ difference between him and her.

Yeah I wonder that too. Don't do it. The people that do probably didn't get good parental advice. As soon as I hit puberty, the first thing my mother said was "Be Picky". And she is right. You will feel wrong if you do it and it will end up a mess. I've been there.

hi sunshower.

Without having read through all the posts on this topic, I would still like to make a brief comment, as the topic caught my eye on the discussion board and I think it's quite an interesting one.

I've had a similar experience with dating, I guess, in the last few years. Occasionally, I do go on a couple dates or something with someone I'm not overtly attracted to, partly to broaden or 'keep up' my experiences, and partly just to see what happens. I strictly don't do anything I'm not comfortable with; just sometimes go along with someone who seems just ok. Sometimes I gain a small insight, or notch up a 'dating experience' I haven't had before for example I had never had a guy put his arm around me (or anything like it, really) until a couple of years ago when that happened on a second date.
Given, that was with someone I was attracted to, and that particular event isn't something I'd do unless I was attracted, etc. Anyhow, it gave me a tiny bit more confidence, both in 'feeling normal and like everyone else' and in knowing what I want through having different, safe experiences.

But, that doesn't sound exactly like what you're talking about. What you're talking about sounds to me more like the phenomena of being statistically speaking the outlier. You mention not just intellectual equality but diversity as well; both these are relevant points. I suspect the answer is, like many other of our issues in life, one that can only be found by walking the path, to know where it leads, yet ..as I said it's well worth discussing.

(it's getting late at night for me, so unable to make any sense of anything more! I shall watch the topic though. cheers)

Ok, attempt 2

I'm in my early 30's and have dated a range of people. I've also been in a dysfunctional long-term relationship; that is one thing that's contributed to the fact that I'm now cautious. My complete spontaneity and blind leaps of faith are another. I never really understood the womanly advice 'make them wait' nor the ideas of 'taking it slow'; it wasn't that I was prone to doing the opposite, or disagreed with the advice.. it was just I could never figure out how to make it fit for me, to me.
I think I just have a more platonic general approach to humanity and that advice seems so 'woman/man'.

Somewhere along the line I realised that my way was my way, and it wasn't going to be any other way. I have to do what's comfortable and right for me, even when it doesn't make complete intellectual sense to me at the time, and even when I don't feel sure that 'my way' is 'normal' at all.
Right now, I'm going through what I feel is a great stage of life, by which I mean that I'm really comfortable with what I'm doing, 'cos I'm doing what I love. So what if sparks hardly ever happen? They don't need to. Maybe they're not meant to. If I were in a relationship, I wouldn't want sparks to be happening all the time ~ it might intimate that I had not made the best choice, which would be annoying.

Yet, there is no right choice. Not for me. Once I'm doing all I love (which is starting to happen), I'll no doubt find (or not) someone who just fits in nicely with me and what I do in life. They'll not be too *insert quality here*, because I long ago identified things I like and don't like through dating different people. Most of those things are optional; a few are not. I've a functional point of view as the basis for my logic in what I prefer. And some of it is instinctual.
Frankly, I don't care what happens in the meantime, or for the rest of my life. And social standards, having to have a gf or bf oh yeh, social standards, I forgot about them .....


Anyhow, that's me and I am a bit of a strange cat. Thanks again for the opportunity to express on such a topic.

I can see having a high IQ as a barrier for some women to find someone -- one of my sisters has the same problem. This is not a good thing, but men do tend to be intimidated/shy away from women with high IQ's.

As you say above, it's not just sheer brainpower that is a factor, but interests as well that are hampering you. Have you dated other Apies? I would think that among the high functioning, successful IT/Hard Sciences Aspie types in University staffs (professors) and the professional world (CTO's of companies, IT professionals, Science professionals) there would be some potential there.

I'm making some broad assumptions about your interests though, and they may be literary or artistic instead. What are your interests?

Better yet, male or female (so not necessarily a love interest), have you ever met someone who was an intellectual match? If so, how did you know, and what did that feel like?

i think a lack of connection is a common observation amongst all AS.

Failure to make and mainatin relationships is a feature of a diagnostic criteria.

The uber mental connection is an AS feature as well. We AS tend to either over cook something or are unable to cook it at all...the feature that we tend to share with most aspects of the observed difficulties we have is modultaion and an inability to see that wer are doing too much or too little, particularly regarding emotions- your attempts to explain that you cant connect on an Uber mental level are not uncommon. most AS can connect on a high intellectuall level and avoid social chit-chat like it is a weapon of mass destruction.

propblem is- many conversations are banal and pointless and serve to act as social bonding and the act of speaking is more important than the meanings of the words spoken.

relationships, politics, international trade law and non AS social conversations all have one thing in common- Facts dont matter.

problem is, for AS peoples, facts are nearly all that matters.

female AS tend to be very good at being socially adaptive but they tend to be poor at identifying their own social foibles.
once identified though, they do tend to want to correct their perceived inadequacies, where AS males can tend to identify the problem but dont want to correct their behaviour......like to keep it real.

Very poignant. Then again I think what Hale said about it being spiritual, that's the best complex/structure I can describe it as. Even during times when I was pushing atheist/agnostic I realized that once in a great while I'd run into people where it was like they were from a family away from this earth - I still to this day would just say that its by 'feel', I don't necessarily believe that's the literal case of things. When I have run into people like that the feeling is almost magical. The best way I'd describe a lot of these girls - they seem almost out of sync with time and space, almost like there's something about their energy or style, their core emotions, that seems far from 2000'ish United States and it sounds like far from 2000'ish Australia, New Zealand, or UK for that matter.

On the upside - having that feeling where a lot of people do practically nothing for me and a few people are almost spell-binding, its help keep me out of trouble. Some people will get into a relationship just to get into one, that combined with my (even possibly misplaced) sense of being much more spiritual than human internally meant that I couldn't bring myself to drop my standards for what I wanted in my life - it would be like carving out a significant piece of myself that's always there, almost adding a somewhat mystical layer over the mundane. The downside - I've had to work quite hard at getting over myself in the sense of realizing that there are plenty of women out there who I perhaps don't have this vibe with who would be great for me, I think most people have a bit of this in them - maybe not to the same ratio or even necessarily in an immediate or outward sense, and I can just as easily be touched or moved emotionally when I get to know someone who doesn't have that particular outward set of energy. So - while I know its out there it isn't something I necessarily need from another person, nor if I had married someone and was happy would having someone like this come into my life be a threat to my partner, I still keep my head very much on the practical side and people already having a good thing and then 'testing the waters to see if the grass is greener over there' is just stupid, if its a relationship that's abusive and miserable perhaps its time for a shift and divorce/annulment and perhaps ginning something up with them during the process - that's a little different.

Regardless though I still think that our biggest obstacles are just how sheer society's standards are for what's ok and not ok. Meaning that even if you have a great career, great mind, hold up quite well in society, to have certain types of emotional struggles - at all, forget making them anyone else's problem, is a deal-breaker. To have difficulties with much of anything is often one, two, or three strikes on your gender role card. I understand why we have to do it - certain things need to be done by both parties in a relationship, typically the guy still needs the capacity to protect as a woman needs to show similar capacity to nurture because of this. Overall though being different in any way where your emotions or motivations are routed a bit differently than the 'straight and narrow' typically spells disaster. Its far from just us either - atypical NT's seem to have just as much trouble and, just like us even when we are able to get our social skills to their level, we find out - as they've already known - its not so much a social skills issue but one of inherent conformity. I don't think its that most people out there deliberately want to drown those who are different, it's much more of a structural issue and what happens when people do what they inherently want to which is stick to their own, the fewer people in your 'own' pool the more likelihood that you can in fact be a life-long single or, as dilbert put it in another thread, end up with a revolving-door dating life.

I liked your post, up until the end. Can you show some evidence to suggest that male aspies are less likely to want to correct themselves?

I agree, actually. I think failure to establish a connection is actually a large factor in NT relationships, too. But what if the person you do feel a connection with happens to be someone you argue with all the time? Well then, my friend, you're screwed