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Ohgodspiders
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24 Oct 2010, 6:23 pm

Not too long ago, something really traumatic happened with a friend of mine. I won't get into all the details, but it made me change a lot as a person. This was around august. When it happened, I told this person that I loved her, and nothing happened then.

Fast forward a little bit and we're insanely close friends. We've talked about things most people wish they could discuss and to an extremely casual level. We don't hold judgements about each other, we understand everything the other person is going through, we back each other up during emotional crises, and we have both improved ourselves and the quality of our lives by talking to each other. The entire thing is purely, 100% beneficial, and it's the most magnificent thing I could have asked for: up until now.

I've discussed it with her multiple times, told her how I've felt about her, written poetry about her and how she makes me feel that have caused her to tremble by how sweet and loving it is, I've done all of this and yet, when my feelings are revealed, pure and unadulterated, a unique thing happens: she feels guilty that she doesn't share them.

Let me explain: I'm madly in love with this girl. I've thought of countless romantic scenarios, many of them things that novels are made of, we've discussed this anonymously (as in, I used "someone" instead of "you") and they were marvelous. When she figured out that I was thinking of her in these scenarios instead of just a random person or silhouette in thought, she felt bad. She said something along the lines of "I just feel guilty because you have such pure, strong feelings for me and I can't return them to you". As of typing this, she's on a walk to try to feel better.

She's said that we'd make a fantastic and wonderful couple, but she's unsure of what's holding her back. She often times thinks she's undeserving of love, or that nobody would want her or anything like that, but it's purely self esteem related: she can consciously understand that she is deserving, but her subconscious keeps giving her emotional ques saying "no you don't". It's making things difficult.

It's moving along though, slowly. I come here seeking opinions on what's going on, on what to do, anything that can help along the process. At the same time, I'm willing to offer advice in exchange: I've overcome social anxiety, understand how to be romantic, how to be confident and sure of yourself, and will pass this along if anyone has the ability to help me out.

Thank you.



CaroleTucson
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24 Oct 2010, 7:19 pm

I think she just needs more time. From the sound of it, you two are meant for each other, but at the same time you've only been together for a few months. And unless I misread you, you don't want to give her up for anything.

So that only leaves you one course of action ... wait it out. If both of your feelings are as strong as you describe, I'm guessing that she'll eventually fall head over heels for you.



Ohgodspiders
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24 Oct 2010, 7:42 pm

Thank you for your advise CaroleTucson

I've thought waiting was the right thing to do, but I wanted to make sure: she's got some issues on her end as well, and the first time we tried it went way too quick.

I think I will go with this advice, although I'd like to hear what others have to say too. Does anyone else have anything to add?



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25 Oct 2010, 3:09 am

Ohgodspiders wrote:
Thank you for your advise CaroleTucson

I've thought waiting was the right thing to do, but I wanted to make sure: she's got some issues on her end as well, and the first time we tried it went way too quick.

I think I will go with this advice, although I'd like to hear what others have to say too. Does anyone else have anything to add?


Yes. You have very nice prose.

I am left to wondering if she cannot return the feelings because she does not have them, or she has, as you speculate, some internal turmoil holding her back. I think if I were you I would tell her she doesn't have to feel guilty because your ultimate goal in life is for her to be happy, and if that entails not having a romantic relationship with you, then you respect that.



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25 Oct 2010, 3:55 am

I think it is time to become more tactical

She is respecting you a lot, she tells you what she feels. And I believe there is no such thing like impossible love. You need to know what is missing or what is there that locks her in her position.

First if you are an aspie, you will tend to think that a relation between two people is symmetrical: it is not. Your perception and your imagination might show the relation through a distorting lens.
Now there might be some details that she is aware of and that prevent her to go further. If that is the case, and she seems to trust you enough, she might already have told you what it is in a non-direct way. Don't ask her directly about that, never. Just try to remember what kind of odd thing she might have told you.
Maybe she is not aware of what prevents her to take the relation to another level. So your mission is to make the deduction of what she thinks is the ideal relation (what is her background, what she told you about her, how she envision the future...) Again be subtle, do your guessing, try to acknowledge your assumptions always in an indirect way. You will have either to adapt yourself or reveal to her another perspective that challenges her view in your favor.

You have a lot of work in front of you. Maybe you came too close, you gave too much of the best from you. You need to find what are, how to add the value(s) you are missing to increase the stakes, you need to present the offer without never directly telling it, it has to be friendly, funny and welcoming,
It should convince her enough that the next step is worth it, it will give her the incentive that if she crosses the next step she will receive these values.


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sunshower
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25 Oct 2010, 5:18 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
I think it is time to become more tactical

She is respecting you a lot, she tells you what she feels. And I believe there is no such thing like impossible love. You need to know what is missing or what is there that locks her in her position.

First if you are an aspie, you will tend to think that a relation between two people is symmetrical: it is not. Your perception and your imagination might show the relation through a distorting lens.
Now there might be some details that she is aware of and that prevent her to go further. If that is the case, and she seems to trust you enough, she might already have told you what it is in a non-direct way. Don't ask her directly about that, never. Just try to remember what kind of odd thing she might have told you.
Maybe she is not aware of what prevents her to take the relation to another level. So your mission is to make the deduction of what she thinks is the ideal relation (what is her background, what she told you about her, how she envision the future...) Again be subtle, do your guessing, try to acknowledge your assumptions always in an indirect way. You will have either to adapt yourself or reveal to her another perspective that challenges her view in your favor.

You have a lot of work in front of you. Maybe you came too close, you gave too much of the best from you. You need to find what are, how to add the value(s) you are missing to increase the stakes, you need to present the offer without never directly telling it, it has to be friendly, funny and welcoming,
It should convince her enough that the next step is worth it, it will give her the incentive that if she crosses the next step she will receive these values.


This is extremely insightful advice. I have been in the position of the girl in this scenario before, and this poster summed up the situation perfectly.

It may be what's holding her back is something you can't change. But on the other hand, it may be something within your power to change. But that being said, I would reassure her that you're friends with her no matter what, because she'll be suffering something awful right now from the guilt (I can tell you I have experienced the guilt firsthand and it's no breezy experience).


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Ohgodspiders
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03 Nov 2010, 9:15 pm

An update

All the advice was put to use and helped a lot. After using a bit more subtlety and combining somethings together, she did eventually fall for me. We're in a relationship now and so far it's going wonderfully. I thank everyone who contributed towards my dilemma :)

I appreciate it, from one Aspie to many others.



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04 Nov 2010, 2:03 pm

Ohgodspiders wrote:

I've discussed it with her multiple times, told her how I've felt about her, written poetry about her and how she makes me feel that have caused her to tremble by how sweet and loving it is, I've done all of this and yet, when my feelings are revealed, pure and unadulterated, a unique thing happens: she feels guilty that she doesn't share them.


She's said that we'd make a fantastic and wonderful couple, but she's unsure of what's holding her back. She often times thinks she's undeserving of love, or that nobody would want her or anything like that, but it's purely self esteem related: she can consciously understand that she is deserving, but her subconscious keeps giving her emotional ques saying "no you don't". It's making things difficult.


Take the hint -- she doesn't like you that way, and nothing you will do will change that. You're a product of conditioning from modern media and propaganda -- "Keep trying, persistence wins the girl." How many movies and TV shows are like that? Sadly, attraction isn't a product of effort or tenacity, it's something that you either have or don't have with a person. You've been lied to by media outlets so that they could sell more commercial time or popcorn in the theater.

Move on, and find someone who does appreciate you. You're trying way too hard with this girl and essentially wasting time you could be spending happily with someone who does love you. I'm sure she's a great friend -- keep it that way, don't try to make a zebra into a horse, or vice versa.

This is probably one of the single most reasons why some men fail to have relationships -- they get focused on one (or a small handful) of dead-end girls/women to the exclusion of everyone else, ignoring other leads, neglecting to get out there and socialize with other people, and chasing relationships that just will never happen with certain people.

Tough love above, I know, but please believe me, it's not worth your time. Keep moving, and find the right person -- she isn't it, no matter how much you convince yourself she is. She knows this, and has been trying to tell you nicely for a while.



SuperApsie
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04 Nov 2010, 3:14 pm

Ohgodspiders wrote:
An update

All the advice was put to use and helped a lot. After using a bit more subtlety and combining somethings together, she did eventually fall for me. We're in a relationship now and so far it's going wonderfully. I thank everyone who contributed towards my dilemma :)

I appreciate it, from one Aspie to many others.


:cheers: Nice job :cheers:

billsmithglendale wrote:
Sadly, attraction isn't a product of effort or tenacity, it's something that you either have or don't have with a person. You've been lied to by media outlets so that they could sell more commercial time or popcorn in the theater.


never say never!


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billsmithglendale
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04 Nov 2010, 4:21 pm

SuperApsie wrote:

billsmithglendale wrote:
Sadly, attraction isn't a product of effort or tenacity, it's something that you either have or don't have with a person. You've been lied to by media outlets so that they could sell more commercial time or popcorn in the theater.


never say never!


Trust me -- when it comes to relationships, call it a day if the other person doesn't show interest and has out and out told you she doesn't "feel it." Honestly, what would it take to convince him or you that she isn't interested?

Conversations like this show me how frustrating guys can be to women when they just won't take the hint.



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04 Nov 2010, 4:23 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Trust me -- when it comes to relationships, call it a day if the other person doesn't show interest and has out and out told you she doesn't "feel it." Honestly, what would it take to convince him or you that she isn't interested?

Conversations like this show me how frustrating guys can be to women when they just won't take the hint.


Fair enough... but what are we supposed to do when what could be the one chance evaporates like that?



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04 Nov 2010, 5:20 pm

billsmithglendale, I think you should re-read the full tread because he succeed


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billsmithglendale
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04 Nov 2010, 5:29 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
billsmithglendale, I think you should re-read the full tread because he succeed


Thanks -- you are right, I did not read the full thread. That being said, I see there are now a whole 10 days from when this thread was posted to when the author said he was in a relationship.

Really? That's success? You've been in a "relationship" not even a full week, yet have "succeeded"?

I would say time will tell how much of a success this was. She's showing a lot of warning signals -- don't be surprised if this "successful" relationship doesn't last the month. So let's not count those chickens yet....

Btw -- been in a marriage for 12 years, so maybe I know a thing or two about "successful" relationships ;)



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04 Nov 2010, 6:15 pm

Also -- just to make sure you don't think I'm trolling or being obnoxious, I'm responding so strongly here because the only relationship where I pushed someone to have a relationship, against their instincts, turned out to be a big disaster.

The girl would have been a great friend, and I should have left it there, but instead I talked her into being my GF. We lasted about a month, and then pretty much resented and hated each other for the rest of the school year after that.

Women really don't like to reject someone outright, but rather soften it, so if a woman is saying they aren't so sure about a relationship with you, they probably mean "I don't want this."

My guess is that the OP managed to pressure her into it. This does not guarantee happiness, and if anything, this will probably backfire. When it happens, remember that I called it.

And if this doesn't happen, I'm glad to be wrong, and congrats to the OP.



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04 Nov 2010, 6:40 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
And if this doesn't happen, I'm glad to be wrong, and congrats to the OP.


At least your remarks warned the OP that he should think the fight is won, you are right, it is just a step and that he should not lower his guard :salut:


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