How much is brainwashing and hormones?

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nilescrane
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27 Nov 2010, 3:23 am

What I mean is, the guys who can't stop themselves from wanting the type of woman that doesn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't be a match for them anyway, how much is it their hormones seeking out the "perfect" mate and being brainwashed by media and society to like certain women, and how much of it is just lack of maturity on the guy's part?

For me, there are two different types of women that have gotten my attention...women that I'm physically attracted to, but I'd actually want to get to know them as people as well and possibly be in a long term relationship with them...then women that are just conventionally hot, probably would not be a match whatsoever and probably couldn't even stand being around.

When I was in high school, I liked the second type of women as did everyone else. I didn't even notice girls that were perfectly fine and naturally pretty but weren't the "most wanted or sought out" and didn't dress like a tramp.

I then spent years, even after my AS diagnosis at 23, fantasizing about getting one of those woman, for status and sex.

Only recently have I begun to not notice this type of woman whatsoever and realize "It's just what my body wants me to like and what society tells me to like" and only spend my time thinking about women that while physically attractive to me are also women I'd want the company of.

I've noticed a handful of guys on this forum complaining about not getting the hot girl...whether for a date, sex, or a relationship...and being sad or angry about it. One guy even admitted that he's nothing to look at himself but wants a conventionally beautiful girlfriend.

So my question is, what do you think is the cause of this? Is it a case of us guys wanting what we can't have? Is it society putting certain women on a pedestal? Is it our bodies telling us to find a stunning mate to produce the healthiest children?



nthach
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27 Nov 2010, 3:43 am

nilescrane wrote:

So my question is, what do you think is the cause of this? Is it a case of us guys wanting what we can't have? Is it society putting certain women on a pedestal? Is it our bodies telling us to find a stunning mate to produce the healthiest children?

That and IMO aspie men want a woman with no mental issues herself. My problem with dating is that fact I'm still in school and living with my parents and I'm too scared to ask women out because of that but I just thought about my fear of rejection but I got rejected a few weeks ago after meeting a girl at a bar, talking about what she does - basically drunken small talk and exchanging numbers and kisses. I called her a few days afterward and she didn't call me back. Basically, I was rejected and it wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be.

Now, when I do start seriously dating I'll open my horizons and look at a woman as a whole - not at face value. But for now, I need to work on my social interactions and how I conduct myself around women. I killed my chances with a girl who was as socially adept as I am.



nilescrane
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27 Nov 2010, 3:54 am

That's an interesting perspective: We see the hot NT girl and think "She's flawless in every way (including emotionally) and can balance me out."

I personally am drawn on a pure attraction level (meaning I'm attracted to them but it's more about liking them and less about sex) to women that are quirky in some way...goofy...sassy...a little nervous...artsy and so on. I'm also turned on by women who have a more global view of what it's like to have emotional problems of any kind, whether because they've experienced it themselves or they know people who have or they're just more open-minded and non-judgmental in general.

But before I started to mature, I wanted a hot NT girlfriend to make myself feel worthwhile, like "I made it in the world."

I also very recently wanted to have sex with really hot NT women...now that I think about it, probably (besides the hormones) as some sort of victory, like "I slept with the type of woman that few have slept with."



nthach
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27 Nov 2010, 4:02 am

I need do some self-exploration on what kind of woman would work for me. The girl I was trying to recover my friendship on was chubby, nerdy, but she also have some social and confidence issues.

I'm drawn to smart, educated, athletic women but I also like a little nerdiness or geekiness as well. If she's an aspergirl, I won't turn her down but my biggest issue is body language - I can't read it at all. And there was a girl in one of my aspie's group who was showing some signs of interest in me but I blew her off... :oops:



Asp-Z
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27 Nov 2010, 5:40 am

I've never liked the stereotypical type of girl that everyone is meant to like. No idea if this is because I refuse to be brainwashed by the media or if it's down to different hormones, though. I'm thinking the latter, because advertisements easily brainwash me into buying stuff all the time :lol:



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27 Nov 2010, 11:08 am

nilescrane wrote:
For me, there are two different types of women that have gotten my attention...women that I'm physically attracted to, but I'd actually want to get to know them as people as well and possibly be in a long term relationship with them...then women that are just conventionally hot, probably would not be a match whatsoever and probably couldn't even stand being around.

my husband never went for the stereotypically "hot" NT women. he always said his eyes slide right off of them. he likes women that grab his eye because they have something different or unusual about them. he likes the weird girls, the outcasts, the unconventionally interesting girls. he has only one category.


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Wallourdes
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27 Nov 2010, 3:59 pm

nilescrane wrote:
So my question is, what do you think is the cause of this? Is it a case of us guys wanting what we can't have?

Partial primal drive, partial cultural preference, partial personal preference

nilescrane wrote:
Is it society putting certain women on a pedestal?

The ideal of beauty is in a society does that, you putting her on a pedestal might be an automatic response but you can choose not too.

nilescrane wrote:
Is it our bodies telling us to find a stunning mate to produce the healthiest children?

No your body wants to sex, preferably with the visual kind of beauty - the more beautiful the better. When you are fulfilled the feeling dissapates.
Age, experience, culture, sexual preference, etc. can change what you like and how you look against it.

You get steered alot by the monkey brain, it's you're inherent behaviour. Without it you probably wouldn't survive, because lots of the behaviour is practical in primitive settings.


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billsmithglendale
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29 Nov 2010, 11:09 am

I would say in your teens to early 20s, a lot of the "type 2" preferences (e.g. those generic girls everyone goes for at that age) is hormone-driven. Your body has the most hormones it will ever have, and from there it goes down.

I also think a certain amount of that is not knowing your own market value (and thus having unrealistic expectations) and being around so many young women that you get jaded and lose perspective.

RE: the getting jaded part -- in high school and college you are around literally hundreds and thousands of women in the flower of their beauty and sexual appeal -- most will never look any better than they do now. So you get spoiled, on one hand, because those of us working in the real world know that you will never see so many young women in one place again. What might be an 8 in the normal world looks like a 6 at college because she's in the same classes and general vicinity of 9's and 10's.

The other part -- your own attractiveness/league/tier/market value. A warning here -- your value as a man will go up sharply in your mid-to-late 20s if you play your cards right, so don't think that your young man value is the same as mature guy value. That being said, we all have inflated self-images, and sometimes, especially if we are jaded a la my point above, we think we deserve better and overlook very nice women who aren't gorgeous, but who are right for us.

The older I got, and the more experience I got about what level girl I can expect to go for me, the more I gravitated towards niche and specific kinds of women. This wasn't always the right choice, because I did tend to undervalue myself after some bad initial experiences, but eventually you do hone in on what works for you, and you learn to love what works for you. It's like that old 1970 song -- Love the one you're with!

So in my case, I know Asian girls, I know certain ones go for me, and I have a preference for cute but maybe slightly homely (but not to me) Asian chicks -- I know my looks are better than normal, but that I have other factors (my weird Aspie-ness, my strange hobbies, my quirks) that lower my price down. So, I pick ones that have a white guy fetish or who like nerdy guys, and meanwhile, I'm fulfilling their fantasy/fetish as well. Both sides are happy, and are doing conceivably better than they thought they would, due to circumstances.

So get yourself in that kind of situation, and you'll be happy in many ways.



nilescrane
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29 Nov 2010, 11:32 am

Not to get completely off-topic, but I think a lot of attractive NT women in their 20s are still fixated on getting the generally hot guy that everyone else likes (so people will see her with him and think "She's got it.") I notice that on dating sites, even when attractive women in their 30s and 40s aren't interested in meeting because of the age difference, they're more down to earth and also find me genuinely attractive.

I'm likely meeting a woman that's 40 and is better looking than most 20 year olds. I think a lot of NT women in their 20s think "I get attention from men" and become arrogant. Also, as women age, by the time they're in their 30s, they've dated enough jerk, generically hot types of guys to have gotten that out of their system and also know those guys are douches.

The reason I stress lowering the standards (and in some cases having no physical standards at all) is because it's hard enough for an above average looking NT to get a date with a 20something woman that's a 6 or above. And for me (And I'm probably a 6 or 7 in pure looks, but the Aspie-ness/quirks/intense mannerisms bring that down) the only women I've gotten the attention of 1.)Liked my pure looks and looked past the Aspieness/intensity or didn't see it since they found me attractive, 2.)Aren't judgmental as far as the introverted lifestyle.

For the guys on here that are below average looking plus Aspie...they literally stand no chance with a 20 year old NT girl that's a 6 or above. Below average looking guys that are NT can make up for it with superior social skills, but ugly/awkward is the worst combination.



nilescrane
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29 Nov 2010, 12:03 pm

Another thing, I've been told by some NT women that even though they don't find me ugly or hideous, that the vibe I give off...nerdy, weird, creepy, intense, awkward...whatever they perceive it to be...makes me totally unattractive and it's no different than being hideous looking. So when I encourage guys that are average or below average looking on top of being Aspie to take whatever they can get lookswise, I'm not saying it to be rude.

I personally just play the numbers game and hope a woman likes me physically enough where the other stuff doesn't matter...or she's cute and nerdy herself and isn't looking at me the way more social young NT women do since she's the female equivalent.