Take on why males have more trouble.. in general

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hale_bopp
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07 Jan 2011, 4:16 pm

It was a blatent, turn your head 90 degrees perve.
I think it's pretty rude to do it right in front of someone you're supposed to be dating. I don't think being a "man" is an excuse. Also and I don't recall saying that I broke up with said person because of it.



Biokinetica
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07 Jan 2011, 4:41 pm

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Most guys leer -- it is involuntary to some extent, and it is also not personal (i.e. we don't just leer at people we like, we leer at women period). If his eyes drifting to your roommates bosom or behind was the triggering event, I think I feel more sorry for him than you, because the loss of a relationship seems a steep price to pay for something he can barely help, and something relatively minor in the big scheme of things.

Even though I wasn't present at this particular instance, I'd like to reiterate how important this is. I think too many girls get unnerved by this considering that it's something that natural selection made damn sure we have. I have ADD, so it's even worse for me. If I see a girl I think is pretty, I can't help it. :(



billsmithglendale
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07 Jan 2011, 5:18 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
It was a blatent, turn your head 90 degrees perve.
I think it's pretty rude to do it right in front of someone you're supposed to be dating. I don't think being a "man" is an excuse. Also and I don't recall saying that I broke up with said person because of it.


I see -- that changes things dramatically then, sorry, I misread. It is acceptable, even given my argument, to chew him out for that -- he should be more subtle.

It wouldn't be ok to dump him for that unless it was like the final straw or something -- thanks for the clarification.



LittleTigger
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07 Jan 2011, 6:09 pm

Now I Know I am wired backwards.

When I am paired with someone, it is
that I am locked onto them, I have
no intrist in anyone else, and she
thinks there is something weird
about me because of this.

Sue-er my X girlfrend thot I was
strange because she seem to
think I never lookt at other women,
why should I? I am not intristed
in them, I was intristed in Sue
at the time. In fact, I was surprised
the first time I was asked "Don't you
ever look at other girls even Once In A While?"
I asked "Why should I when I have
you?"

However I am influence able, whatever
she does, I keep thinking its ok for me
to do it as well, this is how I have
adapted and kept out of trubble,
or in the case of Sue-er, gotten into
it a time or two, maybe that is part of it? She did not
look at anyone else so maybe I followed
suit? I think I get influenced easy by
those I am close to. Sometimes she would
ask "Don't you ever do anything that I don't do?"
I said "Yes I watch Sesame Street and Teletubbies
and you don't."

In the end tho, it is not just one gender,
it is humans in general who confuse me,
I often don't get them, at least in the
Bob and Carole Normal world.


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billsmithglendale
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07 Jan 2011, 7:13 pm

Little Tigger, you might not be as strange as you think -- some people just don't go scanning the environment all the time like I do, and some people just have different needs and libidos.

Also, I have the feeling women do their share of leering too, but they are much better about covering it up or doing it subtley. I've read in some sources that women are much more apt to use their peripheral vision to check someone out, vs. men, who are more obvious and direct.



hale_bopp
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07 Jan 2011, 7:18 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Also, I have the feeling women do their share of leering too, but they are much better about covering it up or doing it subtley. I've read in some sources that women are much more apt to use their peripheral vision to check someone out, vs. men, who are more obvious and direct.


That's probably why I get so annoyed at men doing it, because I pretty much never ever perve at men because I can't be bothered and have other things to worry about. I do perve at women though, to compare myself to them and check out the diversity of different female body types.

I do look if I'm single and already infatuated with a person though.. I don't think it counts as its not just some random stranger.



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07 Jan 2011, 9:45 pm

LittleTigger wrote:
Now I Know I am wired backwards.

When I am paired with someone, it is
that I am locked onto them, I have
no intrist in anyone else, and she
thinks there is something weird
about me because of this.

Sue-er my X girlfrend thot I was
strange because she seem to
think I never lookt at other women,
why should I? I am not intristed
in them, I was intristed in Sue
at the time. In fact, I was surprised
the first time I was asked "Don't you
ever look at other girls even Once In A While?"
I asked "Why should I when I have
you?"

However I am influence able, whatever
she does, I keep thinking its ok for me
to do it as well, this is how I have
adapted and kept out of trubble,
or in the case of Sue-er, gotten into
it a time or two, maybe that is part of it? She did not
look at anyone else so maybe I followed
suit? I think I get influenced easy by
those I am close to. Sometimes she would
ask "Don't you ever do anything that I don't do?"
I said "Yes I watch Sesame Street and Teletubbies
and you don't."

In the end tho, it is not just one gender,
it is humans in general who confuse me,
I often don't get them, at least in the
Bob and Carole Normal world.

I can relate to this so well


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smudge
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08 Jan 2011, 6:00 pm

poopylungstuffing wrote:
I don't wanna have all those buttons.

When I am around my boyfriend, things are simple. I feel better just being around him...We can both be in the same room mutually focused on our own separate interests and I am happy as a clam....I don't wanna be "high maintenance"...He drives, so I often pay for dinner...I try not to impose upon him or make him feel obligated to do stuff...etc.
I do have the problem that when I become involved with someone, I can become very fixated on them...I am afraid to get mad...or have expectations....and then when I get upset, I internalize my feelings and try to rationalize them away...I am too clingy sometimes...that is MY problem...it should not have to inconvenience him...and it is MY fault if I get sad if he does not write to me that often..or as often as I write to him when I only see him every few days or so... he is lucky he has special interests that are so all-consuming that he does not have to be as needy as I may often be. I often admire people for posessing traits that I lack...I really need to find a way to become more fixated on things that might separate me from my oxytocin addiction..I was set up for it in a way..cause despite my AS traits, I a. was objectified a bit as a kid...b. wound up in my first relationship at an early age, and c. have seldom spent any time totally single..since I was 15...

So..my point is..that...ok...I forget what my point is....despite all this, I am unlikely to ever marry...let alone start a family or any of that stuff..I internalize my emotions...am afraid to make demands, and I beat myself up alot....

I envy guys...and I envy people who don't really need other people. I don't need a lot of people..I just tend to get too focused on whoever I am involved with...and what's more, I have been in a pattern of dating ASish types..I like him a lots...but yeah..he is stoic...hard to read..heavily wired into his interests...etc...but that is all part of the package I signed up for...I have to remind myself that I am too needy and thought loopy...I have the problems...not him...


Get fixated on studying people (not stalking obviously) and then you eventually become bored of them. And realise that it's better to be on your own and have things your way than sacrifice your own happiness for other people. I find that way it's a lot easier to get fixated on special interests when you don't care whether you do end up having friends or not. I suppose it comes to a point of 'giving up' and realising that there are 6.8 billion people in the world (and how big a number it is), and nobody out of that lot are particularly special, so why threat so much over one person, or a few people of that 6.8 billion? If you find it so hard to find your own happiness from other people then you've got to be a bit creative and find out how to make yourself happy on your own. It doesn't necessarily mean getting out the house and having a 'life'. It can be interests like cooking or crafts or gardening if that's what makes you happiest. If you find you can spend hours at a time doing that hobby and time just flies by, then you've got another way of making yourself happy without other people.



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08 Jan 2011, 11:24 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
It was a blatent, turn your head 90 degrees perve.
I think it's pretty rude to do it right in front of someone you're supposed to be dating. I don't think being a "man" is an excuse. Also and I don't recall saying that I broke up with said person because of it.


I see -- that changes things dramatically then, sorry, I misread. It is acceptable, even given my argument, to chew him out for that -- he should be more subtle.

It wouldn't be ok to dump him for that unless it was like the final straw or something -- thanks for the clarification.


Of course it would be okay to dump him for that, @billsmithglendale. They weren't married; they didn't have children; they were dating. Dating is supposed to be the process of learning about each other...to figure out if you're compatible enough to have a future together. Either party can opt out - and should opt out - of a dating relationship if they encounter a deal-breaker. This clearly wasn't @hale_bopp's deal-breaker, but it would have been okay if it were.


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billsmithglendale
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10 Jan 2011, 1:06 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
It was a blatent, turn your head 90 degrees perve.
I think it's pretty rude to do it right in front of someone you're supposed to be dating. I don't think being a "man" is an excuse. Also and I don't recall saying that I broke up with said person because of it.


I see -- that changes things dramatically then, sorry, I misread. It is acceptable, even given my argument, to chew him out for that -- he should be more subtle.

It wouldn't be ok to dump him for that unless it was like the final straw or something -- thanks for the clarification.


Of course it would be okay to dump him for that, @billsmithglendale. They weren't married; they didn't have children; they were dating. Dating is supposed to be the process of learning about each other...to figure out if you're compatible enough to have a future together. Either party can opt out - and should opt out - of a dating relationship if they encounter a deal-breaker. This clearly wasn't @hale_bopp's deal-breaker, but it would have been okay if it were.


Sorry -- let me rephrase. It wouldn't be ok for a normal woman who wants to have a long-term relationship with a normal man with typical male characteristics to dump him for that.

She can do whatever she wants that is a legal act. If she wants to do things that are compatible with staying in a relationship with men who aren't gay (though they would be leering, just at men instead), low-libido, or possibly mentally incapacitated, she might need to put up with a leer or two.

So yeah -- if a man doing a masculine thing really bothers her enough to flush a relationship down the toilet, I think it's probably doing both of them a favor to break it off. Men certainly do need to optimize their time as well, and that kind of uncertainty is a lot to put up with -- one look and you're gone? Who needs that sword hanging over their head?

EDIT

Btw, this is a little bit of a touchy topic for me -- My very first GF was a bit of a flirt, and really liked to play head games with me, constantly trying to make it look like I was lucky to have her, and that all kinds of guys were interested. She would constantly go "Ooh, look at him..." or say other things to make me feel small, or to mess with my head. So imagine my surprise when I did the same thing to her, leering at two women at a pool we were at, to show her exactly what she was doing to me -- and this was just light teasing. She instead goes ballistic, and I, only a few weeks into my very first relationship, and with a really fragile self-esteem (she had already had multiple relationships and been around the block), found myself almost dumped (she took me back after a week of making me s**t bricks and wallow in depression and failure).

Many months later, when I got tired of her, and dumped her, what particular events do you think she kept going over in her mind about how she mistreated me? Bingo, crap like the above, where what is good for the goose apparently isn't allowed by the gander (who wanted to gander). It was a pretty crummy thing to pull on anyone, but I put up with it -- I shouldn't have. Anyone who dumps someone for something so small is clearly not mentally balanced enough for me -- other's mileage may vary though ;)



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10 Jan 2011, 4:31 pm

nthach wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
nthach wrote:
And the Civic Hybrid blends in, like most aspergirls.


ROFL!! !! Aspie girls... blending in... :lol: :lol: :lol: Not in my case, certainly. I have blended in in my life as much as a zebra blends into a flock of geese.

But an aspie girl can fly under the radar. Not an aspie guy. There's a reason why I use the Prius for my aspie male analogies - the Prius is odd and awkward, timid, and boring. And it sticks out like a sore thumb. Just like most aspie guys.


I've found, out of all the aspergirls I've met, they can mostly be lumped into two general categories - either the ones you describe nthach (the quiet blending in type), or the ones you describe zen mistress (the sticking out like a sore thumb/loud overly verbal ones). I, fortunately or unfortunately, am of the latter.

Personally, I'd quite like to ride a giant duck. I don't know anything about cars.


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10 Jan 2011, 8:36 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
It was a blatent, turn your head 90 degrees perve.
I think it's pretty rude to do it right in front of someone you're supposed to be dating. I don't think being a "man" is an excuse. Also and I don't recall saying that I broke up with said person because of it.


I see -- that changes things dramatically then, sorry, I misread. It is acceptable, even given my argument, to chew him out for that -- he should be more subtle.

It wouldn't be ok to dump him for that unless it was like the final straw or something -- thanks for the clarification.


Of course it would be okay to dump him for that, @billsmithglendale. They weren't married; they didn't have children; they were dating. Dating is supposed to be the process of learning about each other...to figure out if you're compatible enough to have a future together. Either party can opt out - and should opt out - of a dating relationship if they encounter a deal-breaker. This clearly wasn't @hale_bopp's deal-breaker, but it would have been okay if it were.


Sorry -- let me rephrase. It wouldn't be ok for a normal woman who wants to have a long-term relationship with a normal man with typical male characteristics to dump him for that.

She can do whatever she wants that is a legal act. If she wants to do things that are compatible with staying in a relationship with men who aren't gay (though they would be leering, just at men instead), low-libido, or possibly mentally incapacitated, she might need to put up with a leer or two.

So yeah -- if a man doing a masculine thing really bothers her enough to flush a relationship down the toilet, I think it's probably doing both of them a favor to break it off. Men certainly do need to optimize their time as well, and that kind of uncertainty is a lot to put up with -- one look and you're gone? Who needs that sword hanging over their head?

EDIT

Btw, this is a little bit of a touchy topic for me -- My very first GF was a bit of a flirt, and really liked to play head games with me, constantly trying to make it look like I was lucky to have her, and that all kinds of guys were interested. She would constantly go "Ooh, look at him..." or say other things to make me feel small, or to mess with my head. So imagine my surprise when I did the same thing to her, leering at two women at a pool we were at, to show her exactly what she was doing to me -- and this was just light teasing. She instead goes ballistic, and I, only a few weeks into my very first relationship, and with a really fragile self-esteem (she had already had multiple relationships and been around the block), found myself almost dumped (she took me back after a week of making me sh** bricks and wallow in depression and failure).

Many months later, when I got tired of her, and dumped her, what particular events do you think she kept going over in her mind about how she mistreated me? Bingo, crap like the above, where what is good for the goose apparently isn't allowed by the gander (who wanted to gander). It was a pretty crummy thing to pull on anyone, but I put up with it -- I shouldn't have. Anyone who dumps someone for something so small is clearly not mentally balanced enough for me -- other's mileage may vary though ;)


You know, you have a tendency to externalize your behavior, @billsmithglendale. I'm around men all day, pretty much every single day - and I don't see them leer at women. These are men who I'm completely comfortable with, who are comfortable with me - so no one's putting on a facade. It just doesn't happen. So you may choose to leer at women, but that's not because your "masculine" - it's just the way you choose to behave.

I also find it curious that you suffered so greatly at the hands of your ex (a woman who sounds like she had her own share of problems), because she blatantly paid attention to other men when she was with you....yet somehow you believe it's behavior that's okay for you to engage in. Don't you think your wife might feel insulted or denigrated when you leer at women? I just don't get it - you know it bothered you when your ex did it - it made you feel jealous and insecure and uncomfortable, etc., - but your wife had better learn to live with it when you do it, cause you're just a guy? I don't get it.


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Craig28
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10 Jan 2011, 8:39 pm

So woman being more complicated then men would legitimately and correctly state that they are to blame for all relationship breakups and other dysfunctions. After all, men don't have monthly mood swings, women do.



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10 Jan 2011, 8:56 pm

that has got to be one of the most sexist things I've ever read here



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10 Jan 2011, 9:00 pm

Kilroy wrote:
that has got to be one of the most sexist things I've ever read here


Congratulations for me then.



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10 Jan 2011, 9:01 pm

yeah take pride in that, but don't be surprised when you get rejected by the opposite sex
people generally don't like spiteful individuals