I just can't relate to people. I just can't.

Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

johnnydangerous
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 157

25 Feb 2011, 3:20 pm

I've been going out more in a desperate attempt to make new friends but it just doesn't work. You have to BEG people to LET you hang out with them. And even if they let you hang with them, it feels forced when you do. Like you are the "weird one" in the group and they are doing you some sort of favor by letting you be there with them.

I'm wondering if anyone here can relate. What sucks is that I'm actually a pretty good looking guy, and women will approach me when I'm out. But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL! In my mind, the conversation is going GOOD alot of times when I talk to females! But when I ask for the number there is always a story like "oh I have a boyfriend sorry" or "I'm not looking for a relationship right now sorry" then I'll see these same women go home later in the night with some UGLY looking guy, but I guess he performed the "correct social rituals" which told her "this guy is a real man". These rituals completely elude me, I have no idea what I am doing wrong, or what these women EXPECT me to do.

I have no idea how to "connect" with a woman! In my mind, I do some flirting, they like how I look' keep up conversation and I should be fine! BUT IT NEVER WORKS! I'm not doing some weird NT ritual for them, so they blow me off!

I'm just so sick of being alone and dealing with this garbage. I cry every night. If only someone would tell me what to do, or what I'm not doing...I dont want to live anymore. I wish I was dead.



Moog
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,671
Location: Untied Kingdom

25 Feb 2011, 3:29 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
You have to BEG people to LET you hang out with them. And even if they let you hang with them, it feels forced when you do. Like you are the "weird one" in the group and they are doing you some sort of favor by letting you be there with them.


If that is the case, then something is wrong with your choice of 'friends'. Perhaps find some more accepting people.

Quote:
I'm wondering if anyone here can relate. What sucks is that I'm actually a pretty good looking guy, and women will approach me when I'm out. But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL! In my mind, the conversation is going GOOD alot of times when I talk to females! But when I ask for the number there is always a story like "oh I have a boyfriend sorry" or "I'm not looking for a relationship right now sorry" then I'll see these same women go home later in the night with some UGLY looking guy, but I guess he performed the "correct social rituals" which told her "this guy is a real man". These rituals completely elude me, I have no idea what I am doing wrong, or what these women EXPECT me to do.


I guess that looks aren't everything. Maybe you are thinking like a guy, probably because you are one. Women don't care about looks the way men do.

It's funny but I had a different but similar problem, I used to think people were rejecting me because I was ugly. It's probably more to do with not getting the 'social rituals'.

Quote:
I have no idea how to "connect" with a woman! In my mind, I do some flirting, they like how I look' keep up conversation and I should be fine! BUT IT NEVER WORKS! I'm not doing some weird NT ritual for them, so they blow me off!


Well yeah, you have to actually really connect. Maybe it's just your conversation. Be interested. Relate their interests to yours, if you can. Create something meaningful and interesting between the two of you.

Quote:
I'm just so sick of being alone and dealing with this garbage. I cry every night. If only someone would tell me what to do, or what I'm not doing...I dont want to live anymore. I wish I was dead.


I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy about things. I hope things improve for you. Best wishes.


_________________
Not currently a moderator


Jacs
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 340
Location: The Wood between the Worlds

25 Feb 2011, 3:31 pm

Well, 1st off it sounds like your depressed. Go and see what your doctor can do for you. NOTHING is worth dying over.

May I sugest you find a group who shares your speical interest, that way they won't think your conversation in 'werid' but will think your very knowledgeable. It helped me.



Chickenbird
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 317
Location: New Zealand

25 Feb 2011, 3:34 pm

Johnny this topic is mostly out of my area but I do know that good-looking guys who let the women do all the approaching quite often do very well. I can think of at least two guys this works for. Can you do "hot but shy"?


_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.


eddie82
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 176
Location: Charlotte, NC

25 Feb 2011, 3:45 pm

Letting the women do all the approaching is the ONLY way it worked for me. It will work for you too if thats the process you prefer. You win some, you lose some, and then the right one comes along. In my case, it wasn't a bar or a club or any of the other social places. It was at a neighborhood drug store that I met my wife, and she was a persistent little thing.


_________________
Igor: "Abby something"
Dr. F: "Abby who?"
Igor: "Abby...normal"


justarandomperson
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 65

25 Feb 2011, 4:11 pm

I actually don't like when women do the approaching as much since it feels like being overwhelmed or smothered. My current girlfriend was aloof and uninterested for a long time and it was attractive to me. It was also darned frustrating at times, but compared to my first girlfriend, who did do all the approaching, this relationship is much more satisfying. When people approach me too assertively, I just perceive it as manipulation and attempts to control me, which is very bothersome.



Chronos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,698

25 Feb 2011, 4:45 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
I've been going out more in a desperate attempt to make new friends but it just doesn't work. You have to BEG people to LET you hang out with them.


Don't beg people to let you hang out with them. It makes you look pathetic and clingy and screams to them "I have low self esteem and other problems!" Believe it or not, as caring, sympathetic, and empathetic NT's like to think they are, they aren't really, and they will either exclude someone they perceive as weak in the above sense, or consciously or subconsciously take advantage of them or assert a position of emotional dominance. Remember, humans are primates who's behaviors fall somewhere between the chimpanzee and the bonobo.

johnnydangerous wrote:
And even if they let you hang with them, it feels forced when you do. Like you are the "weird one" in the group and they are doing you some sort of favor by letting you be there with them.


If you had to beg them, then they are doing you some sort of favor, though not really a healthy one. Even if you didn't beg them, you might find some interactions with others somewhat forced, as you are not used to socializing on such a level, and that may take some time to get used to. You will find some people are much easier for you to socialize with than others.

johnnydangerous wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone here can relate. What sucks is that I'm actually a pretty good looking guy, and women will approach me when I'm out. But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL! In my mind, the conversation is going GOOD alot of times when I talk to females! But when I ask for the number there is always a story like "oh I have a boyfriend sorry" or "I'm not looking for a relationship right now sorry" then I'll see these same women go home later in the night with some UGLY looking guy, but I guess he performed the "correct social rituals" which told her "this guy is a real man". These rituals completely elude me, I have no idea what I am doing wrong, or what these women EXPECT me to do.


When you are speaking to these women, what do you talk about?
Who is doing more talking?
Do you ask them questions about themselves?
Do you ask them multiple questions in a row?
How does she respond to your question?
Does she give short answers and then look around as if she is looking for someone or stare off into space?
What are you saying to imply to them you are looking for a girl friend?

johnnydangerous wrote:
I have no idea how to "connect" with a woman! In my mind, I do some flirting, they like how I look' keep up conversation and I should be fine! BUT IT NEVER WORKS! I'm not doing some weird NT ritual for them, so they blow me off!


There probably is some weird NT ritual that eludes most of us but if you pay careful attention to the interactions NT men and women, you might start to see it. However, maybe you are just trying to pick up the wrong type of NT women.

You know, the shallow, high maintenance ones that don't want much in the way of deep anything and just want to "test drive" a like minded NT guy for the night. I don't mean have sex, necessarily, but dance and look good with or whatever they tend to do.

There are women who are not like this and you probably won't find them at night clubs or bars. You will find them at bookstores, coffee shops, cafes, meet up groups, and activities that have substance to them.

johnnydangerous wrote:
I'm just so sick of being alone and dealing with this garbage. I cry every night. If only someone would tell me what to do, or what I'm not doing...I dont want to live anymore. I wish I was dead.


I think the first wrong thing you are doing is looking in the wrong type of place amongst the wrong type of crowd. I obviously have my own social difficulties, and honestly, I might not have much of a clue how to go about forming social connections, but I have a clue as to where not to look and what not to do. I know what is definitely not my type of social environment, and this includes raves, night clubs, and bars.



johnnydangerous
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 157

25 Feb 2011, 5:31 pm

ok when I say "I have to beg people" what I mean is I'm always the one doing the initiating. I know some people and they are nice guys, and they know my condition. I always have to be the one who says "hey you doing anything tonight?" then they will say "yeh lets go to x and x place". But I wish sometimes theyd contact ME and ask ME to do something. I mean I guess its not real friendship, but I ask them if I can hang sometimes because I just get so incredibly lonely. But I always get the feeling I'm out of place with them. Yet going out alone sucks too. I wish I had some real friends who I could relate to, who get my sense of humor! Who LIKE being around me more! Know what I mean?

As far as the women go you are correct, I'm looking in the wrong places. But where are the RIGHT places? You say meetup groups...WHERE ARE THESE GROUPS? Meetup.com has been USELESS for me. Usually NOBODY shows up, or 1,000 people meet up. I can tell because I check their past meetup history on each page.

I'd like to get in a group of about 20 to 30 people, who meet regularly. Like a book club or something. I live in a large city yet I cant find anything like this but there MUST be groups like this out here!

I just feel like giving up nothing works out EVER.



Chronos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,698

25 Feb 2011, 7:19 pm

Yes, I know how you feel.

Which city are you in?



Skepkat
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 89

25 Feb 2011, 9:31 pm

I know what you mean when you're talking about begging to go out with them. I have issues feeling like I belong to groups - even family members. It makes me feel like I'm begging or the odd duck out whenever I spend time with them.

Don't know that I can give any real dating advice. I'm an Aspie girl & I don't really understand how NT girls think. I'm typical for Aspies in that I'm honest and straight to the point. I'm a nerd and read fantasy novels. Not exactly hot topics for most NT girls.

Though I do wonder what kind of connection you are looking for. If you are looking for more than a once night stand, then perhaps a bar isn't a likely place to find a girl that would share common interests.


_________________
Later,
Kimberly


pensieve
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: Sydney, Australia

25 Feb 2011, 9:48 pm

How good looking? Just kidding. I have noticed that both sexes will go for personality over looks, or sometimes they get the whole package.
If you want to get better at talking to girls you need to start looking at yourself and about the things you say vs. the things other people say. See with me I can tell when I said something wrong, but because I'm impulsive I'd say it anyway. The second option for me is to keep quiet but people don't like a quiet person anymore than they like an accidental rude impulsive one.

What kind of things are you saying to these girls? Maybe they are getting bored or finding you odd.
I wish I didn't know about this stuff because even though I understand NT's a bit better than most I still can't communicate with them properly.


_________________
My band photography blog - http://lostthroughthelens.wordpress.com/
My personal blog - http://helptheywantmetosocialise.wordpress.com/


stargazing
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2011
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 101
Location: Pennsylvania, US

25 Feb 2011, 10:17 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL!


If you only knew how well I understand! It is a truly awful, maddening feeling, I know. I have come incredibly far with my social skills, so much so that nobody would ever really suspect that I might be on the autism spectrum and I can even successfully flirt with women often, and yet this STILL happens to me more often than not. The only tips I can offer you about talking to unfamiliar women are these:

* If you're the type of aspie with eye contact problems, find some way to work on that, because that kills interest from women pretty immediately.
* The less talking about yourself, the better! Keep any talk about your fixations and interests to an absolute minimum and don't "backtrack" if the subject gets suddenly changed, since this is a serious difficulty for all of us with AS traits.
* Smile often.
* Never "ask" for a number, always "suggest" it instead (e.g. "Hey, why don't we exchange numbers and talk some other time?") This really works! (Assuming she isn't taken and you haven't somehow completely scared her off.)
* Focus on finding some kind of common ground, be it opinions about your current surroundings, current events, or food. You could also try common interests, but if the girl is someone you met randomly at a bar and your interests are anything like mine (the harmonic language and synesthesia of Oliver Messiaen, horticulture, and barbershop quartet singing), God bless ya. 8O

Are you currently getting any kind of professional help? If you are as deeply depressed as you sound, you definitely need to be getting solid professional guidance of some sort. I have recently started seeing a therapist (she is the one who first brought it to my attention that the patterns in my life seem very much like AS) and it honestly does feel good just to know that I have someone to go to for advice and help with self-examining.



johnnydangerous
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 157

25 Feb 2011, 11:47 pm

stargazing wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL!


If you only knew how well I understand! It is a truly awful, maddening feeling, I know. I have come incredibly far with my social skills, so much so that nobody would ever really suspect that I might be on the autism spectrum and I can even successfully flirt with women often, and yet this STILL happens to me more often than not. The only tips I can offer you about talking to unfamiliar women are these:

* If you're the type of aspie with eye contact problems, find some way to work on that, because that kills interest from women pretty immediately.
* The less talking about yourself, the better! Keep any talk about your fixations and interests to an absolute minimum and don't "backtrack" if the subject gets suddenly changed, since this is a serious difficulty for all of us with AS traits.
* Smile often.
* Never "ask" for a number, always "suggest" it instead (e.g. "Hey, why don't we exchange numbers and talk some other time?") This really works! (Assuming she isn't taken and you haven't somehow completely scared her off.)
* Focus on finding some kind of common ground, be it opinions about your current surroundings, current events, or food. You could also try common interests, but if the girl is someone you met randomly at a bar and your interests are anything like mine (the harmonic language and synesthesia of Oliver Messiaen, horticulture, and barbershop quartet singing), God bless ya. 8O

Are you currently getting any kind of professional help? If you are as deeply depressed as you sound, you definitely need to be getting solid professional guidance of some sort. I have recently started seeing a therapist (she is the one who first brought it to my attention that the patterns in my life seem very much like AS) and it honestly does feel good just to know that I have someone to go to for advice and help with self-examining.


-I smile often

-I ask a lot of questions and do not talk about myslef much

-I do not have a problem with eye contact

-I'm handsome

-I'm in shape

In short I think I'm a good catch, yet I keep getting passed up. Haven't a clue what I'm doing wrong. I guess I don't make enough money, that's the only thing I can think of. It is very sad but women nowadays are looking hard for the dollar $igns. Just my opinion. Either that, or a jerk. When women lose their looks then they seek a "good guy" like me. The problem is I dont know how to be a jerk. I cant fake it.

Guess I'm gonna have to learn to be single, or kill myself. Not a good choice.

:(



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

26 Feb 2011, 12:04 am

johnnydangerous wrote:
I've been going out more in a desperate attempt to make new friends but it just doesn't work. You have to BEG people to LET you hang out with them. And even if they let you hang with them, it feels forced when you do. Like you are the "weird one" in the group and they are doing you some sort of favor by letting you be there with them.

I'm wondering if anyone here can relate. What sucks is that I'm actually a pretty good looking guy, and women will approach me when I'm out. But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL! In my mind, the conversation is going GOOD alot of times when I talk to females! But when I ask for the number there is always a story like "oh I have a boyfriend sorry" or "I'm not looking for a relationship right now sorry" then I'll see these same women go home later in the night with some UGLY looking guy, but I guess he performed the "correct social rituals" which told her "this guy is a real man". These rituals completely elude me, I have no idea what I am doing wrong, or what these women EXPECT me to do.

I have no idea how to "connect" with a woman! In my mind, I do some flirting, they like how I look' keep up conversation and I should be fine! BUT IT NEVER WORKS! I'm not doing some weird NT ritual for them, so they blow me off!

I'm just so sick of being alone and dealing with this garbage. I cry every night. If only someone would tell me what to do, or what I'm not doing...I dont want to live anymore. I wish I was dead.

Just keep trying. Sooner or later you are bound to find "The One." You might try a bookstore with a cafe near a university. When I go to Barnes And Nobles, I see a lot of college students with their laptops in the cafe. Perhaps if you went to a place like that, you could find some cool people.



pensieve
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: Sydney, Australia

26 Feb 2011, 12:51 am

johnnydangerous wrote:
stargazing wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
But then I see the attraction in their eyes fade and the frustrating thing is I actually feel like the conversation is going WELL!


If you only knew how well I understand! It is a truly awful, maddening feeling, I know. I have come incredibly far with my social skills, so much so that nobody would ever really suspect that I might be on the autism spectrum and I can even successfully flirt with women often, and yet this STILL happens to me more often than not. The only tips I can offer you about talking to unfamiliar women are these:

* If you're the type of aspie with eye contact problems, find some way to work on that, because that kills interest from women pretty immediately.
* The less talking about yourself, the better! Keep any talk about your fixations and interests to an absolute minimum and don't "backtrack" if the subject gets suddenly changed, since this is a serious difficulty for all of us with AS traits.
* Smile often.
* Never "ask" for a number, always "suggest" it instead (e.g. "Hey, why don't we exchange numbers and talk some other time?") This really works! (Assuming she isn't taken and you haven't somehow completely scared her off.)
* Focus on finding some kind of common ground, be it opinions about your current surroundings, current events, or food. You could also try common interests, but if the girl is someone you met randomly at a bar and your interests are anything like mine (the harmonic language and synesthesia of Oliver Messiaen, horticulture, and barbershop quartet singing), God bless ya. 8O

Are you currently getting any kind of professional help? If you are as deeply depressed as you sound, you definitely need to be getting solid professional guidance of some sort. I have recently started seeing a therapist (she is the one who first brought it to my attention that the patterns in my life seem very much like AS) and it honestly does feel good just to know that I have someone to go to for advice and help with self-examining.


-I smile often

-I ask a lot of questions and do not talk about myslef much

-I do not have a problem with eye contact

-I'm handsome

-I'm in shape

In short I think I'm a good catch, yet I keep getting passed up. Haven't a clue what I'm doing wrong. I guess I don't make enough money, that's the only thing I can think of. It is very sad but women nowadays are looking hard for the dollar $igns. Just my opinion. Either that, or a jerk. When women lose their looks then they seek a "good guy" like me. The problem is I dont know how to be a jerk. I cant fake it.

Guess I'm gonna have to learn to be single, or kill myself. Not a good choice.

:(

So far you have said you're good looking, women are dating ugly guys over you and that they only go for the rich or jerks.
How about you stop generalising and don't judge so much on looks. Have an open mind and maybe girls will like you a bit more. Because right now you sound like a vain guy who is stereotyping women and even online I'm getting turned off.


_________________
My band photography blog - http://lostthroughthelens.wordpress.com/
My personal blog - http://helptheywantmetosocialise.wordpress.com/


Moog
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,671
Location: Untied Kingdom

26 Feb 2011, 5:55 am

pensieve wrote:
right now you sound like a vain guy who is stereotyping women and even online I'm getting turned off.


Me too.


_________________
Not currently a moderator