CaptainTrips222 wrote:
He probably doesn't have any proof, but I'll bet he's right. It stands to reason. Women are -don't seem to be, but ARE- much more critical of a guy's approach, personality, self confidence, and ability to read social cues, than a male would be of a female. Being on the spectrum can compromise all these qualities. Awkwardness actually isn't more tolerated in women, but if a woman can't pull of a smooth persona, she can always be a little quieter and pass herself off as shy. Now I don't know any man who would get turned off by a shy woman, so long as they found her somewhat attractive and nice. While a female lacking in social skills might attract the wrong kind of guy, it's just not as much of a deal breaker over all. An decent looking girl with AS can attract a male. A guy that can't navigate those subtle social cues won't be forgiven.
If you don't believe there are different standards, then ask yourself, if a guy has low muscle tone, don't you think it would be more detrimental than if a girl didn't have muscle tone? If a man has low social status, don't you think it would be more damaging to his chances than if a woman does? On the flip side, if a girl has a reputation for being crude and domineering, it works against her more than it would a guy.
We can probably all think of exceptions, but I think women on the spectrum have a better chance making it with a NT guy than a guy with AS or whatever would have getting a NT woman.
I kind of saw Chrono's response to this coming.
Here's the problem with your account - its very true for you, its also been quite true for me, I've been in a, single, one month relationship in my entire life when I was 20, outside of that I'm either radioactive or only find glancing blows where we not-so-seriously date a few weeks, I still feel single, and nothing really goes anywhere from either side.
You have to remember that the world treats everyone differently. When you try to extrapolate the rules of your own life onto society it instantly becomes false because, you may for instance have to work very hard, have everything in a row, be in great shape, perfect hygiene, great job, and none of that helps you whatsoever whereas another guy can be a complete wreck, personally and financially, have crap hygiene, and be doing great. Sometimes in the past when I've gotten such basic advice I always wanted to say "Ahhh....ok, so maybe my usual routine of unzipping my pants and chasing girls around the party with my ---- might not be the smoothest idea?". What it really comes to - all the things you can 'have together', do right, say right, etc. are very small slivers of you. What's in between those moments, those witty expressions, purchases of great bath soap and laundry products is you. Its not at all to say that you or I or bad people, its to say that this is the reason why a guy can be working at a gas station at 30 and still be doing significantly better than we are - women like their personalities, or their personalities match their appearances in a certain way that's conducive to very good first impression, its mannerisms, etc., those guys are wired in a way that women can inherently understand without trying to jump outside of their own framework whereas they may quite likely get migraines trying to understand or relate to us. What thought processes or first impressions comes natural or easy to us is completely and utterly foreign to them, and vice a verse by that token.
When I have had people correct me they've said things like "You don't need to be that deep" or "You think too much"...... I *understand* the social side of keeping that minimal and not rolling over people who don't want it, no shortage of common sense there. On the other hand, random kinds of things I'll say, unfortunately, take some extra observation, I tend to mistake simplicity of wording for simplicity of idea or how I got from A to B, it doesn't always work, just like my adherence to social norms doesn't work so well either. The problem is when someone says "Your deeper than you need to be", I almost want to mention to them that they're more north European than they need to be, that they could and should try being more Asian or Arabic when they get around to it. Not only is it vacuous, its implying that people think you're somehow trying to deviate from being a replica of them? Like if its different it must be a misguided attempt at social tools? This seems to be how little people really understand human wiring, human limitations, and what the heck their dealing with, which is really sad when you think about it. That said, I can bite my lip on depth, be quiet and you know what happens? People are commenting constantly why I'm so quiet or asking me "Are you having a good time? Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure?". I think really, when you try a million ways to mask yourself for an environment that doesn't fit you, it will fall down one way or another no matter how much sincere effort you put into masking that.
This is why I think you, me, and other guys, just like women like Chronos and others like her, are on our own and yes - most people don't want to talk to other people about their problems because anyone not in the same situation will not understand. There are personalities that work, there are personalities that are full misfit, there are personalities that are only semi-misfit (which can work great or awful as well based on what combination of what) and, the way your nerves are routed or where you can't get communication from A to B in your brain do to how the highways of white matter are layed out, its the difference in someone who can do math easy vs. the person who has to memorize their times tables. Just like that, our problems with the opposite sex are literally a function of who we are. The only answer available out there as to what is that we need to try accepting ourselves as we are, the why of it is neurotypes - commonality, uncommonality, and how much those things play in either including (strengthening) or excluding (weakening) one person or the next. When you see these variances even within the autistic community - very attractive girls who strike out epically with guys, very average looking girls who do great (the quality of person being the same), guys who seem to have great personalities and social skills striking out where some other guys who are trainwrecked do great (again, the quality of person the same). With that in mind also, looking to "What are they doing right that I'm not?" unfortunately isn't a useful question to ask at the point most of us are at - you're either liked by the opposite sex in general or you're not.
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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin
13 Mar 2011, 12:56 pm
