Initial attraction: Beta Male Body Language
That said, it's not that women all hate me or anything, it's just sorta lack of confidence on my part to enter into relationships for a host of reasons. I've had women hit on me at least a few times, and probably more than I know, as I'm pretty damned oblivious, as it seems all girls are like "WHY DIDNT HE NOTICE ME BATTING MY EYELASHES IN MORSE CODE?! !" I'm just clueless about how to go from point A of attraction, to point B of relationship. I don't understand the inbetween.
I think it's really hard to read body language in real time. For me, I play events back in my head and try to examine what the person's body language was saying--by then it's too late, but I still think I learn from it. I think videos would be even better.
And I know it's hard to practice unnatural body language. I work in sales so I have to talk to lots of people and make a good impression--so I try to practice in the mirror--mostly things like posture and smiling (I already have to practice what I'm supposed to say to them, anyway). I'm not, naturally, a very good smiler unless I'm actually happy, or laughing at something funny.
But I know people can learn some general body language--especially for men, because male body language seems to be more about posture and looking around the room, and maybe a head tilt or some arm show--but it's not as intricate as blinking or eye popping (although I think men also eye pop to send images to women). Also, I read in an article that someone provided here, that smiling isn't that important for men to do, upon first contact.
I like the video that wolfheart posted. Too bad it doesn't really talk about how to attract the opposite sex with posturing, just how people tend to interact when attracted or not attracted. But it was really interesting.
Sorry, but what the guy did was definitely creepy. Staring at a distance for 10 seconds may be fine, but staring really close to her and not even saying anything = creepy. Not to mention stalking that girl and deflating her bike tire. Super effing creepy.
This is getting really ridiculous. We need to stop with the alpha and beta nonsense already. This isn't helping anyone here.
Fact: talking about alpha and beta behavior means your not an alpha and will never be, if you really want to go there. I said it.
Its not impossible for me to be "the man", or to eventually become popular with the opposite sex, or to find my groove, but to be "alpha" in that sense as you and other guys think about it, NO. I will never be that, I was never meant to be that, and none of you will ever be that. I'm telling you what you vision as "alpha male" is a different person, and I guarantee nobody here is that.
With my set of problems, it is important to recognize them, and work with them to try to keep improving. I know I can be successful, I know I can be popular someday, I know I could be a rockstar if I found musicians to start a band. But I have to work with my problems, trying to become this "alpha" so I can get over my fear or rejection and finally have success is just delusional. Its garbage, and its the wrong way of thinking about it. IF it works for you or anyone else then do what works for you.
Yes don't walk up to and stare at a girl like that. Lol nobody do that.
Those are definitely high schoolers, probably 17-18. And while alpha and beta may be oversimplifying a bit, it's certainly helpful to know the differences in their behavior, while also being aware of a few dumb stereotypes.
Thanks to whoever posted it!
I don't know how applicable the video is outside of the bar scene. Don't approach women who avoid eye contact and approach those who do in those situations is what I gathered from it. Interesting, though.
To me it wasn't just that. He also seemed very awkward and nervous when giving that girl a ride in his car.........there were a few tips about that as well. He didn't know what to really say and tried to be funny when he was just sounding lame.
Really? How many signals are there?
Secondly, this guy (sorry, bad w/names) ends by reversing everything, basically saying "see all these signals of interest?. . . often they mean nothing, but thanks for watching!"
I only started looking at this area a few weeks ago, and I find myself relaxing a lot after seeing these kinda things. I'm NOT getting it wrong, I just haven't been trusting myself.
So I see no point in memorizing or even studying it. We're awesome at pattern recognition, so much so that we probably see more 'pattern changes' than the NTs see or broadcast.
I kinda suspect we're 'over analyzing' this too.
Let it flow, swoop her up, live happily ever after for about 5 years, rinse and repeat.
Ugh, Cynicism
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(14.01.b) cogito ergo sum confusus
Really? How many signals are there?
Secondly, this guy (sorry, bad w/names) ends by reversing everything, basically saying "see all these signals of interest?. . . often they mean nothing, but thanks for watching!"
I only started looking at this area a few weeks ago, and I find myself relaxing a lot after seeing these kinda things. I'm NOT getting it wrong, I just haven't been trusting myself.
So I see no point in memorizing or even studying it. We're awesome at pattern recognition, so much so that we probably see more 'pattern changes' than the NTs see or broadcast.
I kinda suspect we're 'over analyzing' this too.
Let it flow, swoop her up, live happily ever after for about 5 years, rinse and repeat.
Ugh, Cynicism
:p... I couldn't memorize all those patterns and signals even if I tried; they're too subtle and I'd have overload in a place like that. As long as we can KIND of see them, it should eventually become easier to pick them up. Not always, but it's worth a shot.
Cleavage for men.
Cash for women.
Nobody's really going to insist that I get PC and make me say;
Sexual proliferation of the species for men.
Safe haven in child-rearing for women.
And some other piddling details too, I reckon
Disclaimer to the reader, if there is one: - this is over-simplification intended to refocus the core direction, yes I know there are exceptions all over the place.
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(14.01.b) cogito ergo sum confusus
As a science major reasonably versed in the topics of ecology and evolution (and in specific here, intra-specific competition in a variety of species including wolves), I have to say that the way the layman handles the terms "alpha male" and "beta male" really begins to annoy me. Do you guys have any idea how wrong you're getting it? In most animal species with a social hierarchy, being a beta male is pretty much just under being the top dog. Being a beta male is better described as being one of the alpha male's main honchos. You're not the pathetic loser begging for scraps, you're the guy who gets to pick after the big boss dog picks the best one first, but otherwise out of a still pretty favorable pool.
Ugh! I am fully willing to admit that this is pure Apserger's-driven nit picking here, but I just can't stand it sometimes. It's like when people can't figure out the difference between "theory" and "hypothesis", not to mention what a "conjecture" is. If it's "just a theory", no it's not, it's "just" a hypothesis. C'mon guys!
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Someone call for the Dakta?
I do agree that "beta male" used to mean "loser guy begging for scraps" is completely wrong. I think it's a sad state of the world when a term, scientifically meaning "second best out of many" is generally accepted by laypeople to mean "worst." And I was about to do that, since I didn't know to begin with!! Thanks for clearing that up.
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Your Aspie score: 98 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 103 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits
AQ: 33
I found a good website on body language which might be helpful.
http://www.bodylanguageexpert.co.uk/
I recently read a book on body language and I will definitely further my studies of it but I am also studying assertive behaviour which can also relate to body language.
http://www.judijames.com/books_body.html
This book looks like it would be a good read for people who are more trained in body language as it goes more into specific hidden meanings in gestures instead of just stating the obvious body language arm and leg postures.
the supposed "beta" males often date and have sex and get married, just like the supposed "alpha" males (even in the animal kingdom in terms of mating. yes really). so it seems that these categories are not useful for describing or predicting social behaviour and dating prospects.
if we decide to use the phrase "alpha male" to describe men who are successful at dating, friendships, and business endeavours, we would find that the category would include all personality types - including reticent, shy, awkward men.
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Ugh! I am fully willing to admit that this is pure Apserger's-driven nit picking here, but I just can't stand it sometimes. It's like when people can't figure out the difference between "theory" and "hypothesis", not to mention what a "conjecture" is. If it's "just a theory", no it's not, it's "just" a hypothesis. C'mon guys!
It's not science, it's "sciency".
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If your success is defined as being well adjusted to injustice and well adapted to indifference, then we don?t want successful leaders. We want great leaders- who are unbought, unbound, unafraid, and unintimidated to tell the truth.
if we decide to use the phrase "alpha male" to describe men who are successful at dating, friendships, and business endeavours, we would find that the category would include all personality types - including reticent, shy, awkward men.
Omega male would perhaps be more accurate.
Charlton Heston?
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well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.
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