Initial attraction: Beta Male Body Language

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Nikorvus
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28 Jun 2012, 4:56 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Guide to becoming Alpha.


LOL. Or a big Beta.

In the end, though, such designations really only serve to benefit the Alpha. Human existence has evolved greatly since the hunter-gatherer days.

At this point, people are getting laid by people who would turn their noses up at the publicly declared "Alphas", whether by choice, circumstance, or desperation.



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Jun 2012, 5:39 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
Building Initial attraction: Beta Male Body Language

As we have been discussing physiques and improving physical aspects in other threads, I think it's important to express the right body language as well, even in still photographs. Attraction or initial attraction appears to be based on a set of images that portray certain characteristics or traits.

Steps of a relationship
Initial attraction = Body language, status, attraction value, posture and physique.
Early Development = Charisma and relating.
Development = Empathy and bonding.
Established = Synergy and compatibility.

Now many of you guys might be sitting there, saying that you might make a good boyfriend in terms of compatibility, you might have relevant interests to a girl, none of that matters without the initial interest or spark that the person requires to get to want to know you. Without step one, there isn't a step four so many guys need to realize step one is the main focus to begin with.

Don't lay all your cards on the table, ever noticed how a cat will put so much effort into going for a ball of string? only until it has the ball, it simply looks at it and walks away. Ever noticed how a dog wants a toy because another dog has it or because you hold it? If no other dog or person wants the toy, the toy loses value to the dog. See the pattern here? The interest is in creating value and desire in yourself. This can apply from the shortest interactions with female store clerks to flirting in a club with the opposite sex.

Beta Male Body language - Notice some of the patterns in this video?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES72FcKnnts&feature=plcp[/youtube]


First of all, I wanna salute you, Wolfheart.

This video is a very real-life example, especially the effect of this stupid staring.

The best way to not make a girl ignores you like that is to talk to her - an alpha move.



1401b
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28 Jun 2012, 6:04 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Whatever, I figure people much uglier, less intelligent, and hell, even with worse social skills eventually mate, so in the grand scheme of things, I don't have much to worry about, regardless of if I'm "alpha" or not. It's irrelevant.

Ditto.
Exactly.
Good point.

*** (remainder not written @ 1000Knives)

All analogies are flawed, of course.

There is more than one Alpha wolf on the planet.
If you think you're eta; beta; pi; or omega -join or make a new pack. imho

Doesn't really matter if 'beta' is appropriately used word, as long as ideas/concepts transfer usefully.
If you think you're beta -then man up. It's easier than you think. I bet you've done it countless times. Flip the switch, I'm certain you've done it successfully before.
The outcome probably wont kill you and you can always make a comeback later. Don't let the melty-man settle in on you.

If you're feeling lost -like the flick said- you probably just haven't gotten an approach signal, look somewhere else for one.
If there's none at that party, there'll be some at other places, and at other parties.

Not all-the-world hates me simply because, out of 15 whole women, I don't notice any approach signals.





I sure as hell hope. . .


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MXH
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28 Jun 2012, 8:18 pm

The way i see it we have alpha, beta and omega males. Alpha being the top. Beta being average and omega being below average. This thread discuses omegas, not betas. Many of the guys in this forum would be content being beta, which is what many here forget.



HisDivineMajesty
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28 Jun 2012, 8:20 pm

I didn't know there was such a thing as omega. Well, in that case, I'm omega.
That's like dividing a previous "low" group into "high-low" and "low-low". Good for half, sucks for the other half. :)



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28 Jun 2012, 8:58 pm

1401b wrote:
If you think you're beta -then man up. It's easier than you think. I bet you've done it countless times. Flip the switch, I'm certain you've done it successfully before.
The outcome probably wont kill you and you can always make a comeback later. Don't let the melty-man settle in on you.


The way I see it, it's not even that really. There is no "strategy." There are just things you don't do, attitudes you control. Being desperate for example. It doesn't matter if you're top dog, if you get desperate around women you'll have precious little luck and even when you do it'll be filled with disappointment and frustration. Status reduces anxiety so typically a top dog is very secure, massively mitigating desperation if and when it ever does occur. Mimicking them won't create that effect, because that's all it is, mimicry. A lower status individual with no desperation will be much more succesful than a high status individual filled with it.

Anyone who's unavailable - married, gay, whatever - lacks desperation, and then you see the effect in play. Most gay guys have way more opportunity with women than Mr. Macho, precisely because they have no interest and absolutely zero desperation. Doesn't matter if they're melty-man, not even a little bit. That's because the rules are BS. All those people trying to follow them and convinced there's something wrong with their execution miss this basic truth, and will never be able to succeed by persisting, no matter how hard they try.

That's why the "do this/don't do this" solutions hardly ever work for people having problems. There's no silver bullet. If your attitudes are unpleasant, acting isn't going to help. You're SOL if you can't grow out of them. You can only hide them so much and for so long.



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28 Jun 2012, 10:23 pm

edgewaters wrote:
1401b wrote:
If you think you're beta -then man up. It's easier than you think. I bet you've done it countless times. Flip the switch, I'm certain you've done it successfully before.
The outcome probably wont kill you and you can always make a comeback later. Don't let the melty-man settle in on you.


The way I see it, it's not even that really. There is no "strategy." There are just things you don't do, attitudes you control. Being desperate for example. It doesn't matter if you're top dog, if you get desperate around women you'll have precious little luck and even when you do it'll be filled with disappointment and frustration. Status reduces anxiety so typically a top dog is very secure, massively mitigating desperation if and when it ever does occur. Mimicking them won't create that effect, because that's all it is, mimicry. A lower status individual with no desperation will be much more succesful than a high status individual filled with it.

Anyone who's unavailable - married, gay, whatever - lacks desperation, and then you see the effect in play. Most gay guys have way more opportunity with women than Mr. Macho, precisely because they have no interest and absolutely zero desperation. Doesn't matter if they're melty-man, not even a little bit. That's because the rules are BS. All those people trying to follow them and convinced there's something wrong with their execution miss this basic truth, and will never be able to succeed by persisting, no matter how hard they try.

That's why the "do this/don't do this" solutions hardly ever work for people having problems. There's no silver bullet. If your attitudes are unpleasant, acting isn't going to help. You're SOL if you can't grow out of them. You can only hide them so much and for so long.


Desperation does play into it a bit, but with gay men it tends to be that women want what they cannot have. With married men, and "whatever" they have already been approved by another female, thus they become more attractive to other females. Women are excessively competitive when it comes to this, there is a reason why a wedding ring is the best accessory for a guy who wants to be hit on.

Note, that while I do have little faith in the average female, I have little faith in the average member of the human race regardless of gender. So it's less of a "females suck" and more of a "People tend to be bastard coated bastards with bastard filling".



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28 Jun 2012, 10:26 pm

TM wrote:
Desperation does play into it a bit, but with gay men it tends to be that women want what they cannot have.


Two sides of the same coin; the difference is just a matter of perspective. Nothing easily obtained is valued. Air is worth nothing, until it becomes scarce.

When it's something that, additionally, becomes hard to get rid of ... then its worth less than nothing, it becomes a nuisance.



Last edited by edgewaters on 28 Jun 2012, 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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28 Jun 2012, 10:29 pm

Boxman108 wrote:
Thing is, going by initial impressions alone is shallow. I'd rather not have anything to do with anyone who judges based on how someone looks. If someone can't give me as much of a chance as I'm willing to give them, they're hardly worth trying to change anything about myself.


It is more about what benefits you. I will alter my appearance if it helps me get ahead in a corporate environment so I can get more money to spend on the things I like.

You adopt alpha body language so you can get the sex you want since sex is really the only reason men bother. Everything else is just window dressing.



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29 Jun 2012, 12:53 am

i don't rank myself, and by extension i do not rank others either. i was with one man in a FWB situation, and he said he didn't understand why i chose to be with him as opposed to some other guy, because he perceived himself to be low status. i think his perception of status (and his placement on the totem pole, according to himself) actually inhibited his chances with women.

*cue people telling me i am different from other women because of _X_ reasons*


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29 Jun 2012, 1:05 am

hyperlexian wrote:
i think his perception of status (and his placement on the totem pole, according to himself) actually inhibited his chances with women.


You're probably right.


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29 Jun 2012, 1:10 am

Image
It's that simple!

I wish it was the 50s, no need for body language, you could just punch people and not get legal charges pressed against you. How times have changed.



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29 Jun 2012, 2:46 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
First of all, I wanna salute you, Wolfheart.

This video is a very real-life example, especially the effect of this stupid staring.

The best way to not make a girl ignores you like that is to talk to her - an alpha move.


Thanks, I'm glad you didn't find it to be an exaggeration and even if it is a film, it still does highlight social mistakes well.

Definitely, the staring is a good point to touch on. The person in a party or a bar leering at the women from the corner and staring is going to look far more creepy and awkward than the person who is involved or socializing with everyone else in the party.

Staring also shows you are more hesitant because you are indicating that you want to talk to her but you aren't assertive enough to take the initiative to talk to her and as we know, men are expected to take the initiative in society.



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29 Jun 2012, 3:03 am

I think a major step in approaching social interactions is to remain positive, if people approach situations negatively and start to become concious of the what ifs, they are more likely to feel negative and come off as less confident when it comes to approaching the opposite sex.

As people on the spectrum, we naturally aren't aware of these behaviours and how they can be negative in social situations. Making ourselves aware and improving our understanding to make a concious effort is helpful, even if some of you believe your success is predestined by a certain script.

I was watching a video which gives good examples of assertive, aggressive and passive behaviour in body language and tone of voice.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymm86c6DAF4[/youtube]



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29 Jun 2012, 9:52 am

hyperlexian wrote:
i don't rank myself, and by extension i do not rank others either. i was with one man in a FWB situation, and he said he didn't understand why i chose to be with him as opposed to some other guy, because he perceived himself to be low status. i think his perception of status (and his placement on the totem pole, according to himself) actually inhibited his chances with women.

*cue people telling me i am different from other women because of _X_ reasons*


I don't think you're different from other women, you are just as self-deluded as most women are. Your guy's valuation either of himself or you was off, he either ranked himself to low (overly self-critical or not adjusted for context) or ranked you too highly (putting a woman on a pedestal) both quite common and more likely than not it was a combination of the two.

If we use a classic 1 - 10 scale, our internal valuation method adjusts for opportunity. In effect, what's a 10 in let's say Detroit, may be a 6 in LA, or what's a 3 in Toronto, may be an 8 in Alaska. It's all relative to what you have access to.



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29 Jun 2012, 2:35 pm

TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't rank myself, and by extension i do not rank others either. i was with one man in a FWB situation, and he said he didn't understand why i chose to be with him as opposed to some other guy, because he perceived himself to be low status. i think his perception of status (and his placement on the totem pole, according to himself) actually inhibited his chances with women.

*cue people telling me i am different from other women because of _X_ reasons*


I don't think you're different from other women, you are just as self-deluded as most women are. Your guy's valuation either of himself or you was off, he either ranked himself to low (overly self-critical or not adjusted for context) or ranked you too highly (putting a woman on a pedestal) both quite common and more likely than not it was a combination of the two.

If we use a classic 1 - 10 scale, our internal valuation method adjusts for opportunity. In effect, what's a 10 in let's say Detroit, may be a 6 in LA, or what's a 3 in Toronto, may be an 8 in Alaska. It's all relative to what you have access to.

no, i am not actually deluded (nor are most women). what a strange thing for you to say. i suppose if you cannot reasonably argue with someone, it is easier to simply call them delusional.

what you said about the guy somehow valuing me incorrectly makes no sense considering that you undermined your own point. fact is, there isn't any sort of universal ranking system - not even in a closed group. if you ask 2 people to rank a group of individuals, they will come up with different rankings. and a sociologist found that people's rankings changed when they got to know each other.

a person who chooses mates primarily according to the supposed rank on first sight is highly likely to fail miserably because that sort of shallow valuation doesn't take other people into account as human beings with other facets. in the case of the guy i was sexing, his belief that he was somehow beneath me meant that he lacked self-confidence around the same women who would actually be interested in him.

at first, he treated me with suspicion and distance when i approached him, because he thought i was having a laugh. not that women had done that to him before, but he thought so little of himself (stemming from ill treatment from his parents, for the most part) that he hamstrung his own chances.

so he aimed for women that he didn't really find that attractive because he thought he couldn't really have anyone else. but THOSE women sensed he was "settling" for them and they rejected him. it was a horrible cycle and i suspect he is still embroiled in it several years later.


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