Initial attraction: Beta Male Body Language

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mds_02
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28 Jun 2012, 3:22 am

TM wrote:
Omega male would perhaps be more accurate.


Charlton Heston?


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TM
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28 Jun 2012, 3:24 am

mds_02 wrote:
TM wrote:
Omega male would perhaps be more accurate.


Charlton Heston?


No, omega is the last letter in the greek Alphabet, whereas Beta is the second, so while beta male means second in line, omega male would in this context mean last in line.



Shau
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28 Jun 2012, 5:21 am

Omegas are used in such a way in science. For example, the last wolves to eat in a wolf pack are "omegas".

It's worth noting that the analogy is horribly flawed to begin with. With many (if not most) wolf packs, only the alphas even mate at all, and there's only one alpha male and only one alpha female. Not even the beta females mate. There's not even a second or third alpha female to mate!!

The whole analogy is horribly flawed and falls to absolute pieces when it's applied to human beings, and imo is giving a lot of people seriously the wrong idea about what their status in society is. And it's ALWAYS WOLVES that they're compared to! The betas in chimpanzee societies still get mates, usually behind the boss's back. So THAT's not a good analogy either!


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Wolfheart
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28 Jun 2012, 8:55 am

hyperlexian wrote:
the supposed "beta" males often date and have sex and get married, just like the supposed "alpha" males (even in the animal kingdom in terms of mating. yes really). so it seems that these categories are not useful for describing or predicting social behaviour and dating prospects.

if we decide to use the phrase "alpha male" to describe men who are successful at dating, friendships, and business endeavours, we would find that the category would include all personality types - including reticent, shy, awkward men.


It's not as vague as that, it's not a case of black and white, success or failure. It's not in relation to individuals themselves but in relation to how a person responds in the scenario or situation. In this case, I think it's relevant for the guy in the video because he does have chances with the other blonde girl but he messes it up by obsessing over one girl instead of realizing there are other opportunities.

There are many mistakes I can point out that I picked up just by watching Eric in the first video.

Obsessing
Analysing too much before making an approach
Trying to be too pleasing, seeking approval
Appearing too clingy
Not picking up on hints of disinterest
Ignores the hints from the blonde girl
Overcompensating by acting too cool in an attempt at false confidence

The person with the lowest attraction value at that party is David who gets slapped by the blonde girl. He makes a cold approach kiss far too early which leads to him getting slapped, he might have had a chance with the blonde girl if he had built up rapport first since she seems open to dancing with him.



Shau
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28 Jun 2012, 10:07 am

If it were up to me, it would go like this:

Computer software uses algorithm to generate list of profiles by compatibility (%) based on factors such as interest, age, profession, and orientation.
Eventually, two individuals will select one another for a date.
Computer then selects meetup point that provides the best balance of favor to both individuals.
Computer generates list of topics of mutual interest.
Couple chats away and does whatever activity the computer selected for them. Small talk only occurs if both parties tick the box for that.
If both individuals are satisfied with their appreciation of the other in terms of mannerisms, topics of mutual interest, personality type, and physical appearance, then woohoo happens.
Both individuals then proceed with whatever else it is they want to do.

Just imagine how efficient it would be! There's no doubt about it, an Aspie-optimized cybernetic approach to dating would surely be superior to the silly games and fumbling of NT people!


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Wolfheart
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28 Jun 2012, 10:22 am

Shau wrote:
If it were up to me, it would go like this:

Computer software uses algorithm to generate list of profiles by compatibility (%) based on factors such as interest, age, profession, and orientation.
Eventually, two individuals will select one another for a date.
Computer then selects meetup point that provides the best balance of favor to both individuals.
Computer generates list of topics of mutual interest.
Couple chats away and does whatever activity the computer selected for them. Small talk only occurs if both parties tick the box for that.
If both individuals are satisfied with their appreciation of the other in terms of mannerisms, topics of mutual interest, personality type, and physical appearance, then woohoo happens.
Both individuals then proceed with whatever else it is they want to do.

Just imagine how efficient it would be! There's no doubt about it, an Aspie-optimized cybernetic approach to dating would surely be superior to the silly games and fumbling of NT people!


I think there's already something like that on dating websites where it finds people you are best matched for, however I don't think it is very advanced at the moment.



noname_ever
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28 Jun 2012, 10:28 am

Shau wrote:
If it were up to me, it would go like this:

Computer software uses algorithm to generate list of profiles by compatibility (%) based on factors such as interest, age, profession, and orientation.
Eventually, two individuals will select one another for a date.
Computer then selects meetup point that provides the best balance of favor to both individuals.
Computer generates list of topics of mutual interest.
Couple chats away and does whatever activity the computer selected for them. Small talk only occurs if both parties tick the box for that.
If both individuals are satisfied with their appreciation of the other in terms of mannerisms, topics of mutual interest, personality type, and physical appearance, then woohoo happens.
Both individuals then proceed with whatever else it is they want to do.

Just imagine how efficient it would be! There's no doubt about it, an Aspie-optimized cybernetic approach to dating would surely be superior to the silly games and fumbling of NT people!

While OKcupid does matching like this, your example is complete date management. There could be a market for this. I would definitely like to outsource this portion of my life.



hyperlexian
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28 Jun 2012, 12:41 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
the supposed "beta" males often date and have sex and get married, just like the supposed "alpha" males (even in the animal kingdom in terms of mating. yes really). so it seems that these categories are not useful for describing or predicting social behaviour and dating prospects.

if we decide to use the phrase "alpha male" to describe men who are successful at dating, friendships, and business endeavours, we would find that the category would include all personality types - including reticent, shy, awkward men.


It's not as vague as that, it's not a case of black and white, success or failure. It's not in relation to individuals themselves but in relation to how a person responds in the scenario or situation. In this case, I think it's relevant for the guy in the video because he does have chances with the other blonde girl but he messes it up by obsessing over one girl instead of realizing there are other opportunities.

There are many mistakes I can point out that I picked up just by watching Eric in the first video.

Obsessing
Analysing too much before making an approach
Trying to be too pleasing, seeking approval
Appearing too clingy
Not picking up on hints of disinterest
Ignores the hints from the blonde girl
Overcompensating by acting too cool in an attempt at false confidence

The person with the lowest attraction value at that party is David who gets slapped by the blonde girl. He makes a cold approach kiss far too early which leads to him getting slapped, he might have had a chance with the blonde girl if he had built up rapport first since she seems open to dancing with him.

yes, this is true, absolutely. it just isn't possible to categorise all the males who succeed as "alpha" and the ones who fail as "beta", because their characteristics are so variable.


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TM
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28 Jun 2012, 1:42 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
yes, this is true, absolutely. it just isn't possible to categorise all the males who succeed as "alpha" and the ones who fail as "beta", because their characteristics are so variable.


I like to think of Alpha as the men women approach, pursue and who tends to get most female attention and beta as the males women go for once the Alphas are taken. Overly simplified ofc.



edgewaters
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28 Jun 2012, 4:34 pm

Shau wrote:
Computer software uses algorithm to generate list of profiles by compatibility (%) based on factors such as interest, age, profession, and orientation.
Eventually, two individuals will select one another for a date.
Computer then selects meetup point that provides the best balance of favor to both individuals.
Computer generates list of topics of mutual interest.
Couple chats away and does whatever activity the computer selected for them.


:eew:



1000Knives
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28 Jun 2012, 4:35 pm

Whatever, I figure people much uglier, less intelligent, and hell, even with worse social skills eventually mate, so in the grand scheme of things, I don't have much to worry about, regardless of if I'm "alpha" or not. It's irrelevant.



Nikorvus
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28 Jun 2012, 4:47 pm

TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
yes, this is true, absolutely. it just isn't possible to categorise all the males who succeed as "alpha" and the ones who fail as "beta", because their characteristics are so variable.


I like to think of Alpha as the men women approach, pursue and who tends to get most female attention and beta as the males women go for once the Alphas are taken. Overly simplified ofc.


That's pretty much my understanding.



1000Knives
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28 Jun 2012, 4:49 pm

Image

Guide to becoming Alpha.



TM
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28 Jun 2012, 4:52 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Whatever, I figure people much uglier, less intelligent, and hell, even with worse social skills eventually mate, so in the grand scheme of things, I don't have much to worry about, regardless of if I'm "alpha" or not. It's irrelevant.


In the end, I largely view it as a competition for the best possible genes to mate with. A high status mate, has a higher chance of resulting in high status offspring, which will then be able to mate with high status mates.

It's one of the same reasons arranged marriages were the norm for large parts of human existence and why European Royal families have a family tree without branches.



TM
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28 Jun 2012, 4:54 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Image

Guide to becoming Alpha.


Ah, I've seen that before, somehow I doubt Atlas' physique was a result of dynamic tension.



Nikorvus
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28 Jun 2012, 4:56 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Guide to becoming Alpha.


LOL. Or a big Beta.

In the end, though, such designations really only serve to benefit the Alpha. Human existence has evolved greatly since the hunter-gatherer days.

At this point, people are getting laid by people who would turn their noses up at the publicly declared "Alphas", whether by choice, circumstance, or desperation.