Friends first?

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Anyone else ever seem to need to be friends first in order for there to be any attraction at all? It would seem to me that there's a negative stigma to it from both sides, from fear of the "friend zone" to claims that those who try to do this only have ulterior motives and aren't actually interested in being friends at all. I don't think it's really fair to say that absolutely everyone is like that. I'm sure that there must be at least a couple of other people here(or out there) who feel the same way that I do; that, only after months or even years has any kind of genuine attraction grown. With strangers or acquaintances it's almost certainly only ever lust, and I think that that by itself is too shallow to act on and would only lead to negative experiences. First impressions are absolutely nothing to go on.

I agree! I think friendship is the best foundation for starting to build a healthy, long term relationship. I think this is true not just for me getting to know the other person, but also so that I feel that they know who I really am and accept me, so that there will be no weird surprises later about how I will act, what I is important to me in life, how I spend my time, etc.

Well at least there's one person who agrees. There's really nobody else out there who thinks this same way? I just would not be comfortable being so close so quickly with someone I hardly know at all. The way I see things, trust has to be built through friendship before any real relationship can be made. If I have to deliberately keep someone at arm's length, it's kind of pointless to try to date them at all.

Friendship AND chemistry need to be there to some degree. If there's zero of either one, it'll never work.

Naw, don't agree there, unfortunately. I would actually like it if it were that way, but it doesn't work for me. If I try to be friends for a while first, I just get comfortable around the person and, in a way, can't be bothered taking it to the next level. For me that "spark" has to be there, and that's something that only lasts in the initial phases of me getting to know someone (i.e., the lust phase). If I let the spark fade, there's not much chance of the attraction remaining. If there never was a spark, there's not much chance of it building up over time.

For some reason I also seem to have an issue with people becoming romantically close to me when they already know my personality well. I prefer all of the aspects of getting to know someone happening at the same time.

But like I said, I think in theory it is a good way to go. Equally as good as any other way, really.

Surprised no one mentioned this sooner when they say they wish they had a girlfriend.

I would like to start out with people as friends first too...unfortunately the next phase rarely ever happens.

I think the "friends first" thing is fine when you're casual friends and knew each other for less than a year. As in, someone you see about three times a month only for a specific purpose; for example, you two are in the same dance class or sports group. Or, seeing each other regularly but not exchanging more than a short conversation each time, like classmates or colleagues at a non-career job. (I strongly advise against dating colleagues at a corporate job in your career field.) In these cases, there's still some sort of mystery left, because you've only seen one side of each other in the interactions you've had, and you haven't stuck each other with a friend label due to the casual nature of the friendship, so transitioning from friends to dating will be fairly easy. For example, you might even refer to each other as "my regular tennis partner" or "this person in my class who's good at waltz", rather than "friend" in the traditional sense.

On the other hand, if "friends first" refers to really good friends who hang out together multiple times a week and knew each other for more than a few years, then transitioning from that to dating will be a lot harder. One, you're so used to being platonic friends that are practically brother and sister, so the visual of yourselves getting it on while buck naked almost feels incestuous. Two, it'll be a lot more difficult to adjust to your new roles, so to speak. If you think about it, dating is just friendship plus sex ("sex" is being used liberally to refer to any physical contact beyond hugs and pecks on the cheek), so just how to you prevent your nascent relationship from degenerating into friendship with benefits? Three, if a relationship didn't get started right away, then chances, the girl never felt enough attraction to the guy to date him in the first place (a.k.a. "friend zone") for whatever reason, and those things can't be overcome on her part, no matter how much he likes her.

^ that makes sense.

What YellowTamarin said too.

In paper, it doesn't sound a bad idea. And after all, in The Sims you have to be friends with someone before you can date him . But in reality, I've found that if you are too much of a friend with someone, there will be little to not chemistry left, which is really necessary for a romantic relationship to work. I can see a problem with that though, it is that if you really need a friendship before you're attracted to someone, then at the point that happens your window of opportunity is closed. I wonder how would it work for you if you started semi-romantically dating someone right at the beginning while you get to know her better and start developing actual feelings for her before you go on a full-fledged relationship. That seems to be the way to go for me.

The problem I see with that, Shatbat, is I feel that I wouldn't be being very honest if I didn't put my whole heart into it or didn't actually have any attraction to her. But then I guess something I neglected to say was I'm not really interested in the whole dating aspect of things. Dating seems so much more fake and a whole lot less personal or genuine, compared to friendship. Suppose I also never understood the "love you like a brother/sister" concept, either; I'd rather be in a relationship with someone I felt that close to, rather than be with someone just because of some silly overrated novelty like mystery.

I don't know. Maybe it's also an issue of people wanting some kind of excitement or fun, whereas all I care about is being safe and not playing any stupid games.

I can see where you're coming from, but maybe we've got different concepts of dating. To me, it involves hanging out with someone, doing different kinds of activities together, in order to get to know them better and spend some time and see if you're good to each other. As how before you're friends with someone you hang out with them. Dating is not intrinsically fake; it's people who make it so. People don't start dating when they are already in love, it begins more of like some sort of curiosity, a feeling that the other person is fun to be around and compatible, and a desire to know more about him. Now that I think about it, the beginning of a good idea is brewing in my mind.

I also believe that when I'm in a commited romantic relationship with someone, I should be friends with her too, friends in the sense that I really care about her and like spending time with her and am close to. But there is also a romantic, and even a sexual component that isn't there. It's best to develop all of them at th same time, because if you wait until you're good friends with someone then, I repeat, it will probably be late for the other ones. So at the same time you're talking with a girl and getting to know her better and doing what you usually do to become friends with someone, you could be flirting here and there and teasing and physical contact and stuff; that sounds like my idea of dating.

It is possible to love someone like a brother or like a sister without being or being willing to he in a relationship with them. First obvious examples, my very own sister and my cousin . Just... no . Or also, with my ex, after months of our breakup all traces of romantic attraction have been lost, but I still care about her a lot and want the best for her. And it was that way to some extent even before breaking up; even though we had that oh so important trust and cmutual caring component nailed down, there was just no chemistry between us, and by the time I had learnt what the "spark" felt like and how to act on it, it was simply too late. Also, that takes me to the next one.

Some women really do like excitement, fun, and uncertainty in their lives. She's one of them. The guy she's dating now, sometimes I've heard her talk about how much she hates his guts and doesn't trust him, but when I ask her why does she not break up with him, her answer is (after several minutes of digging through her excuses, and finding contradictions and inconsistencies she probably uses to fool herself too) is that she has so much fun with him that she loses track of time, that she learns a lot, and that she feels like it's a chess game (she's championship-level good at it) which each one is trying to win (I find that incredibly unhealthy, but it must surely he exciting). She's incredibly attracted to him, and they've got the spark.If they actually cared about each other things would be great. So why did I say all that? Some women don't, some women are more mature and less prone to "play games" and let their emotions dominate their lives, and they exist somewhere out there, we've just got to look for them . It is possible to bring fun and excitement, plus some level of uncertainity (not so sure about it; maybe early in the relationship but later on neither of us should feel any doubt about our feelings for each other) so we shouldn't be boring either

Friends first I find usually guarantees a longer lasting relationship as it is built on a number of things besides lust like trust, similar interests, a better understanding of each other initially etc. But without the "the spark" it might end up being a relationship born out of convenience or misplaced care for your friend. There definitely needs to be that little something extra as well as friendship at the beginning.

I'm not saying the relationships will not work or never happen unless they happen early but the spark itself has to be there early.

can we assume there is a certain girl mind ? If there is, there is a way to avoid the friends zone without overly sexualising the friendship/relationship too soon. Just be more assertive if she does or says anything stupid say something esp if it harms you. This shows her that you see her a normal human being not just love object so if you choose to move things forward she more likely to take you seriously.

Definitely. I couldn't be in a relationship with someone if I weren't friends initially and throughout the relationship. I completely agree with your post.

There is nothing worse than being friend zoned by someone you may be interested in. Consider it they rejected you and forget about them. If a person is interested in you they will let you know but they may reject you by saying no or ignore you.
Guys with Aspergers usually do not like approaching females because of ridicule, humiliation and continuous rejection. Aspie males must wait to be asked out, unlikely to happen. Aspie males are usually too emotionally fragile to bounce back from continuous rejection and humiliation.

Having AS I just accept I will always be alone and there is no point even trying.