why some men seem more successful with women

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I'm splitting this off from blue bean's survey because she asked for discussion to be kept to a minimum to make it easier for her to collect data.

There's one other thing that needs to be kept in mind, how much effort the guy puts into trying to attract women, how many women the guy approaches in the first place. I can only speak for the people I've actually known in real life, so don't think I'm saying this must apply to anyone here, but there are patterns I've noticed.

Lots of guys take rejection way too personally. They let their fear of it stop them from approaching women. They try with one woman, get shot down, and brood on that rejection for weeks or months, unwilling to approach more women for fear that it'll happen again.

Other guys can just let it go, try again with someone else an hour later. And keep trying, and keep trying, until it finally works.

Then there are the guys who don't want to ask a woman out until they know her well enough to know whether or not they want a relationship with her. So they take their time, spend months, sometimes years, getting to know her. They get bitter because, in the meantime, she might date a bunch of other guys. And then, when they finally do ask, the woman gets confused because this guy who she now considers a friend, who has never expressed any romantic feelings before, all of a sudden wants to change the nature of their relationship (and, of course, he takes her rejection very personally because of all the time and effort he's invested before getting to that point).

Contrast that with the guy who realizes that the reason for going on a date is to get to know the person, then decide whether or not he wants a relationship, and is thus very upfront about the reason why he wants to spend time with her.

And then there's whole bar/club scene. Some guys will avoid it because it's obnoxious, loud, expensive, and the people act very fake (all perfectly true criticisms, by the way).

Then there's the guy who realizes that, however much he dislikes it (and very few people actually enjoy hanging out in places like that), that that is the place that has the highest concentration of women who are looking to meet men. Who goes there despite his distaste for it because he knows his chances of a positive response to his advances leap from maybe 1/50 out in the world to maybe 1/5 when out at a bar.

In my examples above, which guys seem likely to date more or to sleep with more women? And note that it has nothing to do with inherent attractiveness. Being attractive would certainly help, but it's entirely possible (and extremely common) for guys of roughly equal attractiveness to have very different success levels with women.

This was my biggest issue. As soon as I got over it (sorta, since it still happens occasionally) my luck and success turned around.

For me, that was the real value in having a wingman, in having a group of other guys to go to bars and stuff with. Sure, I'd be afraid of rejection. But I was even more afraid letting of my friends seeing that fear. So I'd be more likely to set it aside and try. And, after a while, the rejections started hurting a lot less, got to the point where it just didn't bother me anymore.

When women talk about liking confidence, I don't think they're referring to the guy who approaches a woman expecting a positive response. I think they're referring to the guy who likes himself enough that he won't be completely crushed by a negative one. The guy who doesn't base his sense of self-worth on what she thinks of him.

Small irony in this being how I've heard those things as excuses by women on why they don't do any approaching

Agree with a lot of the OP. It's not only appearing successful but actually being successful. Even if the date didn't go well, they never saw the girl they had sex with again or the relationship was crummy they still had more success than the guys that never approached women, never made an effort in their appearance and personal habits/convos.

TLDR; you don't know til you try, and when you don't cease an opportunity you not only avoid failing but succeeding as well which in essence is failing anyway. You sometimes have to break a few eggs to make an omlette.

Sometimes the eggs will slip and make a mess or they might burn in the skillet, but if you don't try, you don't get breakfast. And just because you don't get an omlet, doesn't mean it's the end of the world; scrambled eggs are good too.

Sorry, could resist extending the metaphor. But I agree with the idea that a relationship should not define you. Relationships need trust and if you have to put on any sort of facade, you're not being honest. Let yourself be who you are and let your partner be who they are. When it's the right match, things just fit.

I'd go so far as to say that not trying is worse than failing. At least failure can be a learning opportunity.

Why is a person succesfful? It is quite obvious:

A person who is afraid to express him or herself is likely afraid of failure. Of course this person is also afraid to succeed as well.
That logic can apply in simple dating and relationships and handling rejection.

That's right, but guys don't have the luxury to give up and wait for someone to approach them, if they do so, chances are very high that they'll die with zero relationship.

That was exactly my argument in one of the latest JanuaryMan's threads and the warning was directed to him ;p.

This is true. Women have their own issues when it comes to dating, but having to make the first move is generally not one of them.

Both of the traditional roles have their advantages and disadvantages. A woman has the advantage of not having to put herself out there in the same way that men do, which is balanced by only being able to choose from those men who approach her.

A man risks rejection with every interaction (and, unless he can develop a thick skin, that rejection can be absolutely crushing), but has the advantage of being able to try again and again with whatever women he pleases. The idea is that he should minimize his disadvantage by learning how to not take rejection personally (unfortunately, the only way to do that is to experience it enough), and maximize his advantage by being willing to just keep trying.

Of course, I'm speaking in generalities here. There are some from both genders whose experiences will not match this. But I think it's likely true for most.

I've heard many, mostly women, advise people to basically stop looking and let love find them. This, while well meaning, is bad advice for most men I think. I'd recommend a much more proactive approach. Most relationships do not form organically. Most of the time, they form because one or both partners purposefully create favorable circumstances and situations.

Those women who are willing to actively pursue the men they desire are awesome. But they are definitely a small minority, and I don't think it's a good idea to just wait for one to come along.

See I don't see this as a problem.. Man's got to know his limitations and all.. honestly I'd rather just not do something than try it and fail at it a bunch of times.


That's why it took me 12 years to learn how to drive.. and at this point I'm not sure if I ever want to put myself in a position where I might start to really care about some one.. since that just leaves me open to getting my heart broken again.. and I'm barely managing to hang on to my sanity this time.. next time would be worse considering i likely won't have the rapid response squad of friends and family who are helping me out now.

Sorry, but Yoda is right.. I'd rather "Do not" than try.

^^^if you're okay with being alone, if you can accept that your odds of finding someone are going to be dramatically lessened, then that's perfectly fine.

Most people would not be content with that. Good for you, if you are. It certainly seems like it would make life simpler.

Last edited by mds_02 on 22 Feb 2013, 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's the worst advice to be given to any man; unless the man is some drop-dead gorgeous celeb.

That what I said in the other thread and I was condemned and accused of being a sexist jerk ...ha!

oh no, don't get me wrong, every part of my biology screams at me not to be alone.. I actually LOVE being with another person.. I've never slept as good as when I was co-sleeping with another human being.. just the comfort level is amazing...

But at the same time.. I HATE failing, and will do almost anything to avoid failure. I will drop a class and get a W if I don't have an A going into the midterm.. I will quit a job rather than be fired.. I simply don't play video games because I'm so afraid of Mario falling down the hole.

If that's the case, I think the way you're going about things is going to eventually cause you more harm than failure would. I've had periods in my life where I felt much the same. It's easier not to try. The damage that does to your psyche, because it is not as immediate, is easier to ignore than the pain of failure. But, in the end, I think you'll end up worse off for not trying.

I wish there was some way I could talk you out of that sort of thinking.

Don't worry.. Henry Rollins is doing his best.. I'll listen to Low Self Opinion and Shine about a million more times and maybe it will sink in..