Deal-breakers for men?

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i didn't distort anything at all - i said the same thing 3 times. if you want to provide some credible sources, feel free to do so. if you don't have any sources to provide (or don't want to provide any), then... don't. it doesn't matter either way.

if you want to have your account banned, please send a PM to a moderator or make a post in the moderator attention thread. that is the only way to have your account closed.

As stated, I used a hyperbole to prove my point.

It's not a double standard. It's a preference. We're familiar with AS in ourselves and comfortable around other AS people. I have several AS friends and we just get along a heck of a lot better. We're simply more compatible and forgiving of each others like quirks - and often don't even notice them in each other, as things just seem to flow more naturally. I say this because I've had close AS friends for longer than I've known I'm on the spectrum and only recently realized they are, too. AS+AS, especially with mutual special interests, = compatible.

As you said, if it's more than you can handle... and in general, it is. It's enough for me to handle & treat myself, I don't want/need the added burden of having to handle & treat someone else with a different mental affliction that likely causes more severe problems than I face. F that, 100% complete deal breaker right there. If they've managed to treat themselves so successfully that their condition is virtually invisible, well, maybe. But have to deal with someone who's going through some serious mental problems due to schizophrenia or some other condition that makes them unpredictable, abusive, violent, or some other generalized type of bat s**t crazy? No thanks, I'd never sign up for that s**t. As cold and callous as that may sound, it is what it is and I'm simply being honest and transparent about it.

Aside: I do know some schizophrenics and bipolar people. I'm not against having them as friends, but not interested in having them as a more than friends romantic relationship type thing - especially if they're currently going through a "low," due to their condition and their life is in shambles, and especially so if I just met them. Meanwhile, one schizophrenic guy I know thanked myself and my twin brother for being such accepting friends and including him in social gatherings while he was going through some pretty rough times. Apparently we had made a big impact on his life and didn't realize it. He thanked us both again at his brother's wedding, too, and made a point of sharing this with his gf/wife. My brother and I were rather confused as we hadn't felt we'd done anything in particular to deserve such an honour as he was projecting, but maybe that's why.. because we treated him just as we would have any one of our other friends and there was no obvious over-friendliness for the sake of being nice to him because of his current mental health state. Maybe that's what he appreciated. I'll probably never know for sure.

Likewise, if my own traits & symptoms are beyond what someone else can handle I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards and change their life for me, so if my AS is a deal breaker for them - so be it, that's life. It's up to me to do whatever hard work is required to improve myself, not the other way around.

In a third scenario, for a period of 2-3 months my AS and depression symptoms were so ridiculously strongly off the charts high that I refused to subject my friends to me because it didn't feel right to do so. I was in such a state that I knew I couldn't be around them, or anyone, and so went off and did things in solitude instead (a lot of hiking in the mountains) & stayed home otherwise (reading and learning at least.) until I could sort myself out and become a more suitable version of myself to be around again. Figured things out, sorted myself, and have since become a lot more social with my friends again - but I at least had the presence of mind to think "in my current state, this is a dealbreaker for ME, I can't subject my friends to me or any of this right now until I'm better and back to my old self again however that has to happen." So, dealbreakers (when they come to mental health) aren't always just about self serving personal preferences & our capacity to accept or tolerate or help etc, but also the preference not to be a burden on others you care about.

Alright, even though I've already explained why this was on my list...

I'm going to elaborate.

I don't know what I would do if a girl I was dating had it happen to her.. I imagine I wouldn't have to leave, the relationship would just fall apart.


Quite. This isn't about "oh god she was raped she's undateable"... They are entirely dateable if you can wrap your head around it. I can barely understand women in the first place, it's just not something I can handle. I tried to, for 2 years, and it drove me insane.


Watch out we got a badass over here... I study Philosophy, Neuropsychology, Cognitive Science, and Psychoanalysis. If you'd like to really get into the nitty gritty of all of this, I can.

When it comes down to it, a large part of it comes down to the fact that I just cannot personally handle it. I (unfortunately) have a lot of experience with it, and I have tried to look past it or understand. It has left me feeling as though I now have some kind of sexual damage in my psyche, I am not about to just allow myself to keep being damaged. If you would like specifics, I'm not posting them here.


This is ridiculous, you make it sound like all men are rapists or "sexual harassers".

Bottom Line:
These are sensitive subjects with people, as clearly evidenced by this thread... as such, they are subjects which I would like to not have to deal with in any of my future serious relationships. The same reason "militant feminist" is on my list. I just really don't put up with people talking about this stuff, it's really rather pointless. Only online do I come across any of it, where human interaction can be reduced down to whatever this is.
In the real world, people are neurotic and their past experiences shape who they are. I have had a rather innocent past with my messed up relationships, substance abuse and mental illness aside... everything was self inflicted anyway. I have no delusions of victim mentality, and I cannot empathize with it, as hard as I have tried to.
That is my personal choice, and I'm sticking to it. If you don't like it, you can take a number.

So? What's up with the 'we got a badass'? Infantile. I'm not trying to challenge you, I am just stating a fact. And I think it's plain stupid to turn down someone for that reason. What if she is the most amazing person and partner and 6 months down the line she tells you she's a rape victim? Are you all of a sudding going to dump her?

Never seen this?


I wasn't trying to challenge you either, I just find it hilarious that every 20 something year old thinks they studies "Psychology" because they have the internet.

If I were with her for 6 months, there are two scenarios;

1. I haven't noticed anything weird about her, especially sexually.. because there is nothing wrong with her and she's somehow made peace with it or whatever. That's all good.
2. I haven't noticed anything weird about her, especially sexually.. because she's a really good liar and has been pretending to be someone she is not. Dumping her.

P.s: I have actually been in this scenario, it was #2, and trusting her went right out the window.
I probably would have broken up with her, if she hadn't told me a few days before we moved in together that the past 6ish months she had been lying and being someone she wasn't just to get me to like her.

As I have said, I have my personal reasons for this choice, if you don't like it, it's really not my f*****g problem.

I can't speak for unwonkdm, but I think everyone here has been pretty clear that if someone's past or mental health condition or ____ is dealt with, treated, behind them, invisible and virtually undetectable that they'd be open to the possibility of a relationship with them.. it's when there's a bunch of baggage and BS to deal with because of their PTSD symptoms or various types of mental breaks etc that many people, myself included, just aren't interested in signing up for. f**k that s**t.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, if someone is specifically attracted to broken needy people who they can help fix and they have an interest in being there for them through all of these rough times, well those people can go pair up with the ones that are like that to their hearts' content.

Just because these things are deal breakers for some of us doesn't make us bad people. You may consider baldness a deal breaker, or obesity, or not speaking English... or or or. We all have our deal breakers & they simply are what they are and thats it. Stop trying to sell others on changing their own personal deal breakers because of your beliefs and experiences. It's not going to change anything about what I am or am not attracted to, or what I personally hold as a deal breaker or not.

I think "Abusive", "Criminal" and "Sociopathic Behavior" pretty much have those dealbreakers covered.

But if you want to elaborate on every aspect of abusers, criminals and/or sociopaths, then knock your socks off! Just don't forget to mention those fine people who make sweeping generalizations based on the assumptions they make before learning all of the facts; such behavior is also a social dealbreaker for many people.

You can't speak for me, but in this case you have.
Exactly.

There is a reason I have used the phrase "victim mentality" a few times. Some people have something happen to them (including things that are somewhat [debatable] self inflicted like depression) and they resort to seeing themselves as a victim. I am guilty of this in the past, and there is NO helping someone like that; being in a relationship with them will only pull you down and make you as miserable as they are. That is all they want, they might not be aware of it, but they just want someone to feel what they do so they're not so alone.
I'll f*****g pass on that s**t, thanks.

Not to mention that I don't have the most stable mental health myself, so I really don't need that kind of s**t dragging me down.

It sounds like your ex had a particularly dreadful past. The rape survivors that I know (and I know quite a few) including myself have been able to have "normal" sex and love lives sooner or later after the events. I think you are generalizing quite a bit. I hope your ex received all the help she needs.



My ex's and my relationship survived it (we broke up more than two years later for very different reasons) and he was supporting me the whole time. It also didn't harm our love or sex life at all after I had had some time to recover. I couldn't imagine a lover who wouldn't support their partner when they needed him/her the most... If you are in a relationship, you have to realize that everything isn't always rosy. There will be ups and downs of varying level and you have to learn how to work together in order to overcome them. The strength of the relationship really comes to show in harsh times like this.



In other words, one girl has shaped your ideas about the matter.




It sounds like this really is about your personal problems more than any girl's experience so I can't take offence of most of your comments. The best of luck for you.




Getting raped is indeed ridiculous That is a sick way to put it, frankly.

It is a solid fact whether you like it or not. You may also read the statistics on the matter which are harsh reading. There's no point trying to avoid the matter by trying refer it as another men/women argument.

I have the most wonderful male friends one can possibly have, who I'd trust with my life. It's another statistical fact that rapists and especially "sexual harassers" unfortunately often have several victims.



I doubt your average rape victim would be rubbing it to your face too frequently. Generally speaking only when the topic comes up.

It is your personal choice and you are entitled to it, as well as I have the right for an opinion that your views are distorted on the matter.

Just as yours are based on your experiences.

Absolutely everyone is going to have a personal bias about almost everything that stems from their experiences in life.

While you state that it's his personal choice and he's entitled to it, you come across as trying to persuade him/others that their personal choice is "wrong," and needs to be corrected to fit your point of view. That's the only issue I have with your arguments.

Disregard if you're truly accepting that others' personal preferences and biases are theirs to have and hold & set deal breakers by, even if you wouldn't hold the same belief nor set the same boundary or deal breaker.

Uhh ... ladies? A moment, please ...

We're men. We deal best with male issues. Female issues confuse us, at best. Just ask your favorite guy to fetch that big, blue box from the drug store ("... be sure it says 'Maxi' on the front!"), and watch him break into a cold sweat and look for an escape route.

Rape is a traumatic, violent act. Most of us men have never been raped, and the depictions of rape we see in movies and on the telly don't even come close to the horror and the terror of the act. For a woman to live through such a crime without physical injury and without having to endure some form of emotional trauma (PTSD) as well would be miraculous.

But we're men. One of our urges is to fix things; to make them "all better". What we can't fix frustrates us, even when those things are part of someone we love. We can not fix what happened; we can not make it go away for you. We can only stand there, helpless, while you relive the most horrendous assault of your lives.

I am sorry, but some guys just can not deal with that, and IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! We reach into our emotional tool bags and come up empty-handed every time, and our frustration grows, and it is not fair to you.

Even worse is when we say something to you, touch you, or give you a look that has you screaming "HE DID THAT TOO!" as you run away to cower behind a locked door.

Some guys can handle this, however. Some guys will make every effort to help you deal with the destruction and emotional fallout. Some will even attend counseling sessions with you and give you every other means of support to help you grow out of that awful moment and help you recover.

But not all of us are like that. Some of us can barely deal with our own issues. For these guys, claiming a woman's past rape as a deal-breaker may actually be a good thing - they would likely just make things worse for you, and it is better for you if they just stay away.

If a man can't deal with your feelings in a constructive way, then you are better off without him.

Respectfully,

Fnord

fair point. At least you bothered to address my outburst. I suppose I'm not planning to date myself, so hypocrisy is not a danger for me.

Probably because I am trying to persuade him and make him see another point of view. I don't see it as a negative to try to challenge someone's views and to be fair, I do see uwmonkdm's views as distorted and narrow-minded if you don't mind me being frank. I also see it as a double standard when someone (not just him specifically) admits that they have "baggage" or mental disorders, but demand their potential partner to be completely free of them.

I can't save the world, but I can keep trying. And I've never said my ideals are better than anyone else's. I can still speak of a topic I know enough of, which is slightly different matter.

Last edited by Lilya on 09 Apr 2013, 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you for your post Fnord.

Seconded.

Three girls, actually. Plus two others that I was friends with.



My views are not distorted, or narrow-minded. I believe Fnord did a good job of explaining exactly why this has become a "deal-breaker" for me.
I said I'm not perfectly mentally stable, that doesn't mean I have "baggage" or mental disorders. The baggage I actually do have, is from dealing with these women who were victims of assault, rape, molestation whatever; I finally had a "normal" relationship and I couldn't even take part in a normal sex life because of it.

I understand your point of view, but you should see the point of view that most women who go through this type of trauma are not peachy at the end of it. They don't recover and return to having a 'normal' sex life as you seem to think they do. The majority of my life over the last 5 years has been spent seeing this first hand; so don't tell me I'm wrong when I've seen it with my own eyes.
I tried to be understanding, I did everything they would ask of me, I would be patient.. nothing ever changed. Is it really that big of a deal that I would prefer to just avoid that situation entirely in the future after it has caused me such a great deal of pain and trouble?

My choices when it comes to romantic relationships are for my best interest and what will make me happier, so f**k off if you think you have the right to tell me what those choices should be.
You're not changing the world, you're arguing a pointless argument on the internet, go read a book.