I'm so sick of this whole aspie women have it easier crap

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savvyidentity
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28 Dec 2013, 2:41 pm

Shau wrote:
The reason Aspie females have an easier time getting dates from Aspie males is because autism impacts traits critical to a man's attractiveness much more so than it impacts traits critical to a woman's.


According to which sources?

Shau wrote:
Now, this helps Aspergirls women get easier access to sex, but that's a pretty useless thing for most Aspergirls because they only want sex in the context of a loving relationship.


Whilst I'm sure there are plenty of aspie women looking for loving relationships, I haven't seen anything that says this is a rule of how they are and that they would all collectively say no to a good time (with the right person) just on principle. I also contend that being approached by men means their only option is sex - on the contrary, men don't "just want sex" as the stereotype goes - there are plenty of men out there looking for committed relationships. I can understand this 'easier' access to men may mean getting taken advantage of when another person knows full well they're looking for an attachment, but stringing someone on is hardly exclusively male behaviour - given the same circumstances (being approached by a lot of women, say) couldn't any aspie man have this same problem? Even without 'better circumstances', I feel we must all take responsibility for either gullibility or poor choice of partners.



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28 Dec 2013, 2:50 pm

Alycat wrote:
How about this - some people find it easier than others. However, this is NOT split down gender lines.


I would say not only. But in general women have choices and men have options, the point being difficulty for each can be decided purely by circumstances or social norms (regardless of if you care about any of that personally). Which is not to say this 'defaults' to it being harder for men and easier for women every time.



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28 Dec 2013, 2:54 pm

savvyidentity wrote:
Alycat wrote:
How about this - some people find it easier than others. However, this is NOT split down gender lines.


I would say not only. But in general women have choices and men have options, the point being difficulty for each can be decided purely by circumstances or social norms (regardless of if you care about any of that personally). Which is not to say this 'defaults' to it being harder for men and easier for women every time.


What's the difference between a choice and an option?



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28 Dec 2013, 3:11 pm

hurtloam wrote:
What's the difference between a choice and an option?


Generally, men don't have women knocking on their door just because they're a possible 'mate', but they are free to persue anybody they like. Women often just have to choose who they let into their life for the long term, and also the option of casual/short term relationships is more a matter of her making up her mind that she just wants that - men have to work at this. I'm not saying adding in the asperger/autism variable equates to an easy ride for aspie women, but I do think that inescapably does add to the difficulty for aspie men.

This is the reason I think it should be discussed here by men without evoking unwarranted defensive behaviour.



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28 Dec 2013, 3:25 pm

savvyidentity wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
What's the difference between a choice and an option?


Generally, men don't have women knocking on their door just because they're a possible 'mate', but they are free to persue anybody they like. Women often just have to choose who they let into their life for the long term, and also the option of casual/short term relationships is more a matter of her making up her mind that she just wants that - men have to work at this. I'm not saying adding in the asperger/autism variable equates to an easy ride for aspie women, but I do think that inescapably does add to the difficulty for aspie men.

This is the reason I think it should be discussed here by men without evoking unwarranted defensive behaviour.


yes,men approach women,but an Aspie women,still have to put herself in social situation
to meet guys.the fact,that some of them are able and comfortable enough to go bars,parties,
or any crowded social gathering,impressive me the most.
that why I believe any aspie who have no trouble in dating,are just mild.
the fact they can actual go out and meet alot of people.



savvyidentity
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28 Dec 2013, 3:49 pm

billiscool wrote:
yes,men approach women,but an Aspie women,still have to put herself in social situation
to meet guys.the fact,that some of them are able and comfortable enough to go bars,parties,
or any crowded social gathering,impressive me the most.
that why I believe any aspie who have no trouble in dating,are just mild.
the fact they can actual go out and meet alot of people.


That sounds about right. Since aspergers is high functioning it seems to me easy to forget that some people have problems just leaving the house.

Apparently, female aspies are more likely to be the 'actor' type due to a lot of behaviour being mimicked, though the cracks do show eventually that would be an 'advantage' (and maybe also a curse) of a sort.

According to 'The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome' (loosely quoting) some aspies have the advantage that they see people as the solution (rather than them being the problem), and learn better from NT behaviour because of it.



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28 Dec 2013, 4:23 pm

I meet lots of people and some of them even seem to be interested in me but tbh, it all just stresses me out and I'd rather hide in my house and bemoan the fact that I can't find anyone suitable than endure what to me is just painful intercourse. pun intended.



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28 Dec 2013, 4:41 pm

savvyidentity wrote:

That sounds about right. Since aspergers is high functioning it seems to me easy to forget that some people have problems just leaving the house.

Apparently, female aspies are more likely to be the 'actor' type due to a lot of behaviour being mimicked, though the cracks do show eventually that would be an 'advantage' (and maybe also a curse) of a sort.

According to 'The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome' (loosely quoting) some aspies have the advantage that they see people as the solution (rather than them being the problem), and learn better from NT behaviour because of it.


I should add,aspie women also use online to meet partner.Bipolar aspie also seem
to do well in dating.and what's interesting,alot of dating successful aspie women
are feminist,atheist.at least on wp,alot are liberal/left wing.



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28 Dec 2013, 6:26 pm

billiscool wrote:
I should add,aspie women also use online to meet partner.Bipolar aspie also seem
to do well in dating.and what's interesting,alot of dating successful aspie women
are feminist,atheist.at least on wp,alot are liberal/left wing.


It makes sense to use online dating if it can work as it will add to your options. I've used it before, but found it was a miserable experience full of vile/hateful women.

Bipolar eh? Any reason why that would be helpful? I would have thought it would just make it a lot harder due to the 'downs' all the time. :shrug:



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29 Dec 2013, 11:20 am

savvyidentity wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
What's the difference between a choice and an option?


Generally, men don't have women knocking on their door just because they're a possible 'mate', but they are free to persue anybody they like. Women often just have to choose who they let into their life for the long term, and also the option of casual/short term relationships is more a matter of her making up her mind that she just wants that - men have to work at this. I'm not saying adding in the asperger/autism variable equates to an easy ride for aspie women, but I do think that inescapably does add to the difficulty for aspie men.

This is the reason I think it should be discussed here by men without evoking unwarranted defensive behaviour.


So where are all these men that are interested in me? Since I only have to choose, there must be a dozen men knocking on my frontdoor waiting for me to make a choice.

Unforunately, this isn't reality. Ans yes, I do go outside. I study at university, I have a job, and last weekend I even went to a salsa party.



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29 Dec 2013, 12:59 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
So where are all these men that are interested in me? Since I only have to choose, there must be a dozen men knocking on my frontdoor waiting for me to make a choice.

Unforunately, this isn't reality. Ans yes, I do go outside. I study at university, I have a job, and last weekend I even went to a salsa party.


You're misquoting me there. Please don't put words into my mouth.

Also, it is reality according to sociologists, psychologists, body language experts, etc. They can't all be wrong, however much we might want them to be.



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29 Dec 2013, 1:44 pm

It's important to realize here that the side debate is besides the point. My 'complaint' if you like, was not directed at "situation a) is harder for aspie men" but rather that when aspie men bring up an issue for why anything might be more difficult for them due to societal circumstances it gets completely shot down, ridiculed, told that's just not true, it's not reality, gets met with eye rolling (aka contemp), or sometimes results in attack on character. More commonly it's the insistence that you are somehow trying to minimize aspie womens problems, which seems to be rarely the case yet it gets turned around to somehow be about aspie women. The difference is, when aspie women are citing problems such as:

"It's hard to keep a man around due to my aspie traits"
"The men I meet are not interested in long term"

There is nobody there to shoot it down, tell them that it's just not reality, roll their eyes, or just attack them personally by saying things like "this is a raging pity party" (just for example), or claim that what you're saying somehow minimizes aspie male difficulties. Generally when I see these kind of complaints here, I'm inclined to believe them, even sympathize, and wouldn't dream of minimizing those problems for them. I haven't seen this done either. Yet there is often a complete refusal to allow some male aspie problems to be discussed in the same way as if the problem actually exists - is that not minimization?



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29 Dec 2013, 2:02 pm

savvyidentity wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
So where are all these men that are interested in me? Since I only have to choose, there must be a dozen men knocking on my frontdoor waiting for me to make a choice.

Unforunately, this isn't reality. Ans yes, I do go outside. I study at university, I have a job, and last weekend I even went to a salsa party.


You're misquoting me there. Please don't put words into my mouth.

Also, it is reality according to sociologists, psychologists, body language experts, etc. They can't all be wrong, however much we might want them to be.


Show me the article please, since I have a psychology degree and have never read something quit like this.

In order to be able to choose one needs to have options, which I don't currently have and have never really had.



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29 Dec 2013, 2:48 pm

Call me crazy, but I am noticing lately a trend of guys (of different ages) being demotivated or maybe not giving a damn to make first moves; and they prefer to stay single than doing it, are you seeing this in your areas?

If yes, then for those bastard guys in the world I tell them.:




Keep up the good work!! :lol:



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29 Dec 2013, 3:46 pm

savvyidentity wrote:
It's important to realize here that the side debate is besides the point. My 'complaint' if you like, was not directed at "situation a) is harder for aspie men" but rather that when aspie men bring up an issue for why anything might be more difficult for them due to societal circumstances it gets completely shot down, ridiculed, told that's just not true, it's not reality, gets met with eye rolling (aka contemp), or sometimes results in attack on character.


What sort of thing do you mean. We can't change our attitude if we don't know what we're doing wrong.



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29 Dec 2013, 3:54 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
Show me the article please, since I have a psychology degree and have never read something quit like this.

In order to be able to choose one needs to have options, which I don't currently have and have never really had.


Apart from "that is not reality", you haven't made a counter argument here, so I feel the real burden of proof and credibility lies with you.

Articles on the internet that are usually just self-perpetuated nonsense do not prove my credibility, any more than having a degree in psychology proves yours (especially as I can't and won't ask you to confirm that). I can however, quote directly from books. So there's no confusion, in the above post I did not mean men are all knocking on a womans door in a literal sense.

From Venus The Dark Side (chapter 5):

"Girls who just want to have fun, are often quite easy-going about dating men. If they want to drink too much, they will. If they want casual sex, they will get it. In fact, single women call most if not all the shots in their lives. A single guy may hope he gets laid when he's getting ready to go out for a night. But a woman already knows. If she decides to, she is far more likely to succeed than a man. A man is often portrayed as having all the power. It's a myth."

From Body Language - What you need to know by David Cohen (chapter 9):

"In Psychology Today, Monica Moore (1995) reported what is known as a meta analysis of studies of flirting. Looking at a mass of research, Moore found that women use 52 different non-verbal courtship behaviours. These included glancing, gazing, primping, preening, smiling, lip-licking, pouting, giggling, laughing and nodding. Her research slammed the myth that is always men who start the dance; often girls take the first step."

If we look at that again:

Her research slammed the myth that is always men who start the dance; often girls take the first step.

The fact is, it is a widespread myth and even expectation that men will make the first move. In reality women decide the partners, but myths and attitude relics will remain.

Bear in mind, the books in question have nothing at all to say about autism or aspergers, this is about NT behaviour, and only NT behaviour.

In a world full of NT's and NT 'rules', I don't see it as being realistic to project my expectations on anyone. The only constructive thing to do, is to live with the reality of things. When I've had dates it's not because women are doing all this work for me - approaching me, chatting me up, asking for my number, etc, it's because I put the majority of the work in for them (as most men are doing) that they were willing to put a little work back in, but this extra work and assumed responsibility will inescapably be hard for male aspies as it would if female aspies had these expectations were hanging over their heads.

It is also 'well known' that women are more promiscuous, but it's not difficult to see why that might be when every man out there has the larger portion of expectation on him to 'get the girl' (in other words, desirable women are 'surrounded' by men) or if he prefers to twiddle his thumbs, and not learn how to do every one of these things he will just get nothing. Does that sound easy?

Though as I said above, it's still besides the point even if there could possibly be indisputable 'proof' that I'm wrong. The point is many aspie women here claim those problems just don't exist for aspie men.