How these trashy men even get into relationships?

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catwhisperer
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09 Jan 2014, 3:14 pm

Zodai wrote:
Simply put, they deceive and manipulate the female.

Then they get what they want and go back to being jerks.



Exactly. They are playing the role of a nice guy to get what they want and then they turn crazy/mean. I've had it happen to myself more than once...I think it's made me a little neurotic... : /



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09 Jan 2014, 3:14 pm

Jono: Oh, I agree that hiding behind AS is super shitty and damages everyone else. If I had to guess why women dump after they find a syndrome they think it is, it's probably because then they can put a name on it and because it ends their belief they can 'fix' the person if they hang on.

But it is super shitty. :(


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09 Jan 2014, 3:22 pm

Acedia wrote:
is_he wrote:
I mean he has NO friends, doesn't socialize and doesn't work (hasn't worked for 6 years and fears returning and having to tell people this). He tells me he does not think people or work will benefit him. This is pretty unusual behaviour you have to admit... and add to this the fact he is anxious, has grandiose thoughts, is paranoid about people staring at him (in a 'it's because I am special way'), is miserable and has thoughts of committing suicide. Something is going on. What that something is.... I don't know.


He is in a slump and depressed? Did he work before?


This sounds more like a personality disorder of some type. Children with autism are typically identified and diagnosed while up until very recently; people with aspergers were largely misunderstood and socially ostracized. We hud out in a variety of subcultures and fumbled along through life trying to get by and not understanding why we struggled so much.



Khoma
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09 Jan 2014, 3:35 pm

The same reason guys fall for abusive or violent partners, whether male or female. The brain does funny things when we're in love.



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09 Jan 2014, 4:54 pm

Dantac wrote:
The greatest irony is that he did marry when he was 24 to an amazingly gorgeous and smart girl...who divorced him a year later. To this day he keeps moaning how he lost her not because of losing her but because her family was very,very,VERY rich and he could've such a grand life.


OK, now that is just depressing! It's bad enough to know that decent women marry men like him. But if girls like this marry men like him there must be something major I don't understand about the world. (I mean, more than I previously thought.) A girl who was "amazingly gorgeous", smart and "from a very very very rich family" could surely have married just about any man she wanted, as long as he wasn't gay! And maybe even if he was. (Although it's possible she was a complete b***h, I guess - your description doesn't rule that out. :))


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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Jan 2014, 6:06 pm

FMX wrote:
Dantac wrote:
The greatest irony is that he did marry when he was 24 to an amazingly gorgeous and smart girl...who divorced him a year later. To this day he keeps moaning how he lost her not because of losing her but because her family was very,very,VERY rich and he could've such a grand life.


OK, now that is just depressing! It's bad enough to know that decent women marry men like him. But if girls like this marry men like him there must be something major I don't understand about the world. (I mean, more than I previously thought.) A girl who was "amazingly gorgeous", smart and "from a very very very rich family" could surely have married just about any man she wanted, as long as he wasn't gay! And maybe even if he was. (Although it's possible she was a complete b***h, I guess - your description doesn't rule that out. :))


Don't underestimate the extrovert charm and being good conversationalist. He mentioned he can talk about media and celeb gossip for hours, a lot of girls love this s**t, it is certainly way more entertaining for the majority of girls than talking about scientific discoveries or pokemon.



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10 Jan 2014, 10:13 am

Celeb gossip for hours?Eew,kill me now.


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12 Jan 2014, 6:49 am

catwhisperer wrote:
Zodai wrote:
Simply put, they deceive and manipulate the female.

Then they get what they want and go back to being jerks.



Exactly. They are playing the role of a nice guy to get what they want and then they turn crazy/mean. I've had it happen to myself more than once...I think it's made me a little neurotic... : /


You just nailed a part that truly sucks about these types of guys that they play the role of the nice guy and that part sucks the most...

Hell I believe it is more responsible for dating issues in this day and age then my AS is because I am a genuine nice guy...

Lord knows after trying many times unsuccessfully but watching the Jerks and A-Holes make it with girls I even wanted to be them not because I envied them but after so much being denied or rejected when I clearly posse all the quality's I heard the girls talk about that they wanted and yet when it came to me they didn't want me they wanted the Jerk...

I eventually came to start thinking it was the only way to make it was to adapt to the new world I was born in the wrong timezone I started to figure but I could never become the ass it just wasn't in me through nature or nurture it isn't who I am...

I am glad I couldn't change anyways even back then but it hasn't made things easier...

The nice guy personality the one the girls claim they want and I am not meaning all girls just using it collectively for flow of conversation I still believe somewhere there must be one that doesn't want the jerk...

Anyways the point being is being the nice guy the funny guy the caring guy and all the other things that make me me and wonderful created 2 types of situations in the dating world 1 was the girl who wouldn't date me at all probably figured my nice guy ability was just a act even though it was genuine thanks Jerk Guy...

The second one is The girl who realizes you are the nice guy but they don't want that they just want to use you for a little bit cause they know your nice...

There is a strange kinda 3rd category I have experienced the girl who gets with me, Dumps me for a Jerk Guy shortly thereafter but actually not only wants to be friends but have gone on and been willing to tell other girls how great i am if I asked which is really confusing I was so good that I wasn't good enough ???

I have had friends that have gone as far as talking to me about the quality of guy they look for and just straight up say me they want someone like me but when pushed its not me just someone like me in fact I have even been asked for advice about other people to see if they might match apparently well I can't navigate the dating world properly internally when I am outside of it looking at others I have a knack for it tis strange I have helped 2 or 3 people find people to love and marry helped end a abusive marriage the list goes on hell even ran into a ex once who blatantly told me she would come back if I asked. I didn't cause that would be a jerk thing instead I asked her a much more important question was she happy and she said she was and I said thats all that matters to me...

Anyways this turned into a rant but know that I have found this place and have finally escaped my catch all labeling from my past and have a real diagnosis I hope that being here will make my new foray back into the world of dating better as I try again once more to find the fabled person who doesn't just say she wants a guy who will treat her right but will take a chance on one unfortunately I wont lie past experiences make this look bleak the jerks and the trashy types have increased in number...

But at the same time this place gives me hope too cause I find so many people saying things and thinking things I only thought was me and more importantly I see answers and I see people who have tried things and learned different ways to overcome... :)



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12 Jan 2014, 10:12 am

^^^

I've read things that say "Women want dominant, social, talkative men."

When confused what these mean, you see "Controlling, never spends time with gf, never listens to her."

What we want to think this means "Amazing sex, has lots of friends, good conversationalist"


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12 Jan 2014, 1:30 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Celeb gossip for hours?Eew,kill me now.


That is taking it to the extreme. What I mean is anything media or local social circles related he can converse and small talk about it with ease no matter the subject.

Every time I observe NTs striking up conversations as strangers and ending up friends or more than friends always starts and relies heavily on this kind of small talk.



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12 Jan 2014, 1:43 pm

I think, basically, as humans, we don't actually want people who care too much about something. For example, in the one actual job interview I passed completely, I showed up in a normal T-shirt, jeans, didn't even comb my hair, etc, got the job. Other job interviews I showed up wearing dress shoes, basically trying as hard as possible, and I didn't get the job.

I think that's one reason. Someone who's got a crush on you seems unappealing as they're to some extent, trying too hard, and we interpret this as bad for some reason.

I think the other reason besides this weird phenomena is that "scummy" people are better able to manipulate people's emotions and make them do things that are otherwise illogical. I don't know what it is about it. For example, I had a boss who played games like this. He fired me and then called me days later and was like "hey we need a driver, come back" thankfully (at the time felt like crap) my car was broken so I couldn't work. He offered to teach me to make masala chai tea later, and I wasn't even working at the place at that time for like 3-5 months, and first time walking through the door he says "hey, I need you to deliver this" and you know what? I did.

This guy, my old boss, he basically, nothing you ever did was good enough. He'd never compliment you ever. My friend who knew him better told me how he never even complimented his wife's cooking. He said his wife made better food everyday because of it. By "negging" as long as the person can put some hope of positivity forward, people will do more with negative feedback, because they wish to improve and make the person happy. We want to please and want validation from other people. By "negging" you can basically extend the loop to infinity until the person being negged decides to quit. If you put forward positivity right away then the loop is complete.

In another perspective, a world famous weightlifting coach, Ivan Abadjiev, worked this way, similar to my boss. You could set world records in training and he'd just say "well OK." People described training with him as being "a black hole, where the more work you do, the more work he gives you." And "he didn't do the normal high school football coach type pep talk thing, he'd just look at you with a look of utter disgust the entire time." You create basically a black hole feedback loop and you get people to accomplish whatever you want.

On this end, you can say the person being persuaded by the "black hole" tactics is emotionally weak because they care to please someone who's obviously, well, a dick. Why do they care? As probably most people never gave them said validation in their life, and Mr. Black Hole gives the promise of validation without actually giving it.

I guess you could also argue plain old simple bad luck and statistics, too, but I think the main thing I see in relationships (not even romantic, I didn't even use romantic examples at all in this) is what I guess I now call the black hole theory. I kinda resolved not to post too much on here, as I usually end up saying straight out dumb/hurtful/hateful/mean things, but I hope this is helpful in some way.



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12 Jan 2014, 1:49 pm

The entire point of negging is manipulation. When it comes to compelling an athlete or something, a little manipulation is fine. But when you're talking about a relationship that could potentially last for the rest of your lives, that's not a foundation you want to build on.



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13 Jan 2014, 12:19 am

MadeUnderground wrote:
is_he wrote:
I wonder if my "boyfriend" triggered this thread?


Honestly? Probably not.


It's a combination of you, NinsMom and other similar threads that plague this forum on a daily basis about some NT woman who is asking us if her boyfriend/husband/whatever has autism because he essentially treats her like a can of garbage. And what better excuse can be given to the individual in question than a unprofessional diagnosis of Autism? Because the other remaining options would most likely be a personality disorder which many people understandably fear, or worse, he's just a normal ole jerk-a-roo.

Nope. It's much easier to think he's autistic who has trouble understanding what he's doing wrong than to come to the realization that that boyfriend/husband/whatever is completely aware and responsible for their crappy actions and behaviors.

Even if these guys the women come in this forum to talk about DID indeed wind up having autism, that still should never excuse the crazy and cruel behavior these women have said that these guys do.

No, I believe that Boo made this thread after we've seen a tireless amount of threads typically created by NT women who are wanting to know if her significant other is autistic because he's cruel and does x, y, z.

I think your thread is_he, was just the tipping point for Boo.

*******
Absolutely NOT my B.F.! Never was, never could be!
However, I reasonably sure that he or someone close to him does read this board. Why ? I'm very sure that someone @ our local Autism Assn. pulled him up short on his behavior after my 1st post. (It was suggested that I try & reason with him face to face) Well , he was having none of that. 'Interesting that from a scant description, in a pretty large Aspie population, in a large city, he was recognized.
Repeat behavior?

Things got quiet for a while, & then he got 2 of his old buddies from his former workplace to start bugging me. Now he's claimed that I'm stalking him! Nobody stalks Bad News! I'd rather hand feed plague rats.
I'm not suggesting that all this nightmare is directly related to Autism, or Asperghers. He may have a lot of other problems totally unrelated to them, BUT if he is using an Autism spectrum diagnosis to get away with other bad behavior, it would not surprise me at all. He is an extremely smart, sly, & manipulative person.

If I headed an org. that promoted the rights of individuals & research into a medical problem, I just might want this kind of behavior to be kept quiet & not achieve notoriety. This would respect the vast majority of people who do not exhibit those other aberrant behaviors, or use Autism Spectrum diagnosis as an excuse to act out.
**********************



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13 Jan 2014, 12:29 am

There are assholes that are NT,and assholes that are Autistic or have mental issues.Assholes come in all shapes and sizes,colors and creed,sexes and ages.No one group of people has a monopoly on bad behavior.My ex was not Autistic,most likely a personality disorder.
Choose your partner wisely,because if you have kids together,even if you are divorced,they will always be in your life,whether you like it or not.Sometimes it is very hard to be civil with them at family gatherings.


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13 Jan 2014, 12:46 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
mouthyb wrote:
Face of Boo: Oh, I admit I responded to a common pattern in forum conversations across many forums, wherein some guy complains about women who end up in bad relationships and it turns into 'wommenz are dumb.' It may not be the pattern here, though I've seen a little of it in this thread.

For instance, cafe au lait's "Because of stupid girls", or RightGalaxy's "these women are parasite hosts", or your comment that trashy women attract trashy men--the situation is more complicated than simply bad judgement on the part of the involved women (or men, when this happens to men.)

Several people have pointed out that many of these guys/women don't show their true colors up front. They lie, they charm, they act sweet and slowly change the lives of their victims in ways that seem normal, or reasonable, or seem as if they're done for good reasons. It's hard, when someone you love is lying to you, or slowly finding good reasons for you to stop hanging out with friends, or tells you it hurts their feelings if you mention your exes (or whatever), to really understand where things are headed and how bad they'll get. Who expects things to get that... awful?

I would doubt that the person who's being victimized really wants to end up in a shitty relationship, nor are they being actively stupid. (In fact, I've had some shitty relationships and I'm well into the genius range of IQ). It's not that easy, but people seem to find it easy in general to assume it is that easy.

Sometimes, the other person is just a f***ing predator.


No one can predict the future but what's puzzling is their resistance to go for an exit.
******8
The minute I smelled big time Control, game playing, & blame assigning happening, I headed for the exit -Literally, & never to return. That didn't stop the stalking, snooping &, hacking that happened after that. Who does expect things to get That awful, on the basis of Nothing.
I got out before there was anything remotely like a 'relationship'. I dodged a bullet by not getting in any deeper, but all this other stuff happened & continues to happen. They do "Lie, charm, & act sweet, & then slowly change". I saw this over the course of 1 1/2 years of quick conversations. The 1st day I met him, he told me his name & address, with a big sweet smile. I thought "How honest & without guile".
A year & a 1/2 later, I realized that it was still about All I knew about him. Good first impressions go a long way. :oops:
*************

And for some reason, these women always end up quitting after being convinced that their spouses are AS, weird, as if AS is the scapegoat in order to convince themselves that they can never change the jerkiness of these men.