5 Relationship Zones Worse than 'the Friend Zone'
06 Feb 2014, 5:46 pm
Fnord wrote:
The fact that my wife and I were assaulted last night by a schizophrenic woman in the parking lot of our favorite restaurant belies the idea that I know nothing about any link between schizophrenia and violence.
The chances you are telling the truth at all is cosmically small. You expect me to believe you came on a site designed to help those people to tell them they are worthlessly evil monsters, and you know all about what crazy people suffer though because you did the opposite of empathize when you were attacked by one, oddly the night before I responded to your post? And if it is true, the fact belies s**t! People who cannot help themselves are suffering worse than the people they affect. The only thing is people like you don't care to learn how to tell when people can help themselves, and treat those who can't just as bad if not worse.
I was attacked by an NT last night so all your saying is invalid.... simply laughable.
_________________
comedic burp
07 Feb 2014, 4:26 am
Jono wrote:
Yes, I know. Feminists hate the love-shy.
No they don't. But most of them are probably tired of those dudes who don't seem to realize that being "love-shy" is their own personal issue and not the fault of whatever woman (or all women) they couldn't bring themselves to pursue openly.
There's some stuff feminists are doing wrong, some problems they contribute to. Dudes not getting laid is not one of those things.
_________________
If life's not beautiful without the pain,
well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.
Modest Mouse - The View
07 Feb 2014, 7:54 am
I'm in the they drag me along until they get my name and phone number then shortly after ignore me zone.
I'm going stop giving it out cause i don't like random people who had no interest in having my info but same tiem what if i don't and that's the one that might have worked out.
i don't have friends so no friendzone for me
07 Feb 2014, 9:44 am
mds_02 wrote:
Jono wrote:
Yes, I know. Feminists hate the love-shy.
No they don't. But most of them are probably tired of those dudes who don't seem to realize that being "love-shy" is their own personal issue and not the fault of whatever woman (or all women) they couldn't bring themselves to pursue openly.
There's some stuff feminists are doing wrong, some problems they contribute to. Dudes not getting laid is not one of those things.
I didn't say that but every single time the topic of the so-called "friend zone" comes up, they seem denigrate all of guys who happen to have this problem, not just the ones who blame their problems on women. The description of "zone 1" in the Cracked article that the OP linked to is good example of this. Here's a few quotes:
Quote:
If you're in love with one of your friends, then you've already ruined the friendship through the simple involuntary act of wanting to f**k them.
First of all, this fails to distinguish the difference between wanting to sleep with someone and having romantic feelings for them. One can feel horny and want to sleep with someone and lust after them without having those romantic feelings. Conversely, having romantic feelings for them or falling in love with them does not mean that you immediately want to sleep with them. But moving on:
Quote:
If you're in love with one of your friends, then you've already ruined the friendship through the simple involuntary act of wanting to f**k them. If you wanna wait it out and try to be friends again, do that. If you wanna act on it, do that. If you wanna sit on the sidelines and try to puppeteer a person into sleeping with you without letting them know that's what you're trying to do, then you're only technically not a rapist.
So, now after falsely equating falling in love with someone with wanting to sleep with them, the author is now equating all men who fall in love with one of their friends but for whatever reason, weren't able to admit to admit their feelings to the person involved, be it lack of courage or whatever, with rapists. How wonderful.
07 Feb 2014, 10:43 am
Jono wrote:
So, now after falsely equating falling in love with someone with wanting to sleep with them, the author is now equating all men who fall in love with one of their friends but for whatever reason, weren't able to admit to admit their feelings to the person involved, be it lack of courage or whatever, with rapists. How wonderful.
He described a scenario where someone was attempting to psychologically manipulate a person into sleeping with them without letting them know that's their intent. That's creeper behavior regardless of gender or whether it's done for limerence or sex.
If it's simply done for a one night stand so you can get another notch on your bedpost or to fulfill a relationship/marriage/kid fantasy scenario in your head........it doesn't matter. In fact, I'm willing to bet that many people find the latter even creepier than the former.
He wasn't describing some poor innocent love-shy dude. I find it funny that every time this "Nice Guy(TM)/Friendzone" thing comes up, there's always someone who derails it with a semantics argument. If the person described doesn't sound like you, then nobodies referring to you. However if you constantly feel the need to call yourself "Nice" and your romantic rivals jerks and/or using terms like "friendzone" un-ironically, some introspection may be in order because being "Love-shy" ain't the real problem.
07 Feb 2014, 11:57 am
Jono wrote:
I didn't say that but every single time the topic of the so-called "friend zone" comes up, they seem denigrate all of guys who happen to have this problem, not just the ones who blame their problems on women.
If dudes would come in and say "I have romantic feelings for a friend, friendship isn't enough for me but I don't know how (or am too scared) to make my feelings known, does anyone have any advice?" rather than "Why do women ignore me and go for guys I disapprove of? What is wrong with them?" then I promise that people's reactions would be much more sympathetic.
I'm not disagreeing that being in that position sucks. Having strong feelings for a woman that you can't just shut off, knowing she doesn't feel the same, having to see her go off with other guys. I've been there, and it hurts. Really bad.
But the issue, the reason people react so poorly when the "friendzone" comes up, is that the guy bringing it up pretty much always tries to focus on how the woman is doing him wrong by not reciprocating his feelings (or how all women are doing him wrong, because the same thing seems to keep happening over and over again to these guys) when what he should be focused on is how to get out of that situation (if it is really making him that unhappy, then cutting contact may be the best option) and how to avoid ending up there again (mostly by being more straightforward about what he wants).
_________________
If life's not beautiful without the pain,
well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.
Modest Mouse - The View
07 Feb 2014, 2:15 pm
mds_02 wrote:
Jono wrote:
I didn't say that but every single time the topic of the so-called "friend zone" comes up, they seem denigrate all of guys who happen to have this problem, not just the ones who blame their problems on women.
If dudes would come in and say "I have romantic feelings for a friend, friendship isn't enough for me but I don't know how (or am too scared) to make my feelings known, does anyone have any advice?" rather than "Why do women ignore me and go for guys I disapprove of? What is wrong with them?" then I promise that people's reactions would be much more sympathetic.
I'm not disagreeing that being in that position sucks. Having strong feelings for a woman that you can't just shut off, knowing she doesn't feel the same, having to see her go off with other guys. I've been there, and it hurts. Really bad.
But the issue, the reason people react so poorly when the "friendzone" comes up, is that the guy bringing it up pretty much always tries to focus on how the woman is doing him wrong by not reciprocating his feelings (or how all women are doing him wrong, because the same thing seems to keep happening over and over again to these guys) when what he should be focused on is how to get out of that situation (if it is really making him that unhappy, then cutting contact may be the best option) and how to avoid ending up there again (mostly by being more straightforward about what he wants).
This just about sums it up perfectly.........
If you're constantly finding yourself in the same situation, then it's something you're doing not something other people are doing to you. You're making yourself the victim.
Some of you guys might think I'm insensitive but it's actually quite the opposite. My advice comes from a place of high affective empathy. I've been there. Lonely, depressed and on a cognitive feedback loop that only reinforced my insecurities. I took positive steps to get myself out of it. It took trial, error, heartbreak and a ton of painful introspection along the way but I emerged a far more balanced and likable person. The kind of person girls would like to date and/or be actual friends with. I also made plenty of guy friends along the way because i didn't just try to limit my personal social improvement to dating.
07 Feb 2014, 2:51 pm
Geekonychus wrote:
Some of you guys might think I'm insensitive but it's actually quite the opposite. My advice comes from a place of high affective empathy. I've been there. Lonely, depressed and on a cognitive feedback loop that only reinforced my insecurities. I took positive steps to get myself out of it. It took trial, error, heartbreak and a ton of painful introspection along the way but I emerged a far more balanced and likable person. The kind of person girls would like to date and/or be actual friends with. I also made plenty of guy friends along the way because i didn't just try to limit my personal social improvement to dating.
You may have really high empathy, but you lose the contest on sympathy completely.
_________________
comedic burp
07 Feb 2014, 7:27 pm
Fnord wrote:
The fact that my wife and I were assaulted last night by a schizophrenic woman in the parking lot of our favorite restaurant belies the idea that I know nothing about any link between schizophrenia and violence.
Fnord, you of all people are smart enough and educated enough to know that one example indicates nothing beyond that one example.
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07 Feb 2014, 10:32 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyoEc4DlZQ0[/youtube]Being sucked and trapped in the deadzone!
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08 Feb 2014, 2:22 pm
Geekonychus wrote:
Jono wrote:
So, now after falsely equating falling in love with someone with wanting to sleep with them, the author is now equating all men who fall in love with one of their friends but for whatever reason, weren't able to admit to admit their feelings to the person involved, be it lack of courage or whatever, with rapists. How wonderful.
He described a scenario where someone was attempting to psychologically manipulate a person into sleeping with them without letting them know that's their intent. That's creeper behavior regardless of gender or whether it's done for limerence or sex.
If it's simply done for a one night stand so you can get another notch on your bedpost or to fulfill a relationship/marriage/kid fantasy scenario in your head........it doesn't matter. In fact, I'm willing to bet that many people find the latter even creepier than the former.
He wasn't describing some poor innocent love-shy dude. I find it funny that every time this "Nice Guy(TM)/Friendzone" thing comes up, there's always someone who derails it with a semantics argument. If the person described doesn't sound like you, then nobodies referring to you. However if you constantly feel the need to call yourself "Nice" and your romantic rivals jerks and/or using terms like "friendzone" un-ironically, some introspection may be in order because being "Love-shy" ain't the real problem.
Except that if you read that paragraph again, he has not even mentioned the possibility someone may for some reason not be able to bring himself admit his feelings to the person. According to what he wrote, if you have fallen in love with a friend, then there are only three possibility, either you are honest about your feelings to them, attempt to wait for the feeling to pass, or manipulate them into falling in love with you (or sleep with you, one of the two), there is no mention of a fourth possibility that you may be suffering from anxiety issues, lacking in social skills or even suffering from social phobia that may prevent you from admitting your feelings openly. Therefore, he is lumping all those people into the category of the guy manipulating the person simply due to the fact that those possibilities are not specifically mentions and they don't fall into the other two categories. So, the "innocent love-shy dude" is actually included in the category of the guy who's trying to psychologically manipulate the other person.
I am therefore not playing with semantics, I'm reacting to what was written. He didn't specifically say that he was only referring to guys who call their romantic rivals "jerks" etc.
08 Feb 2014, 2:25 pm
Geekonychus wrote:
mds_02 wrote:
Jono wrote:
I didn't say that but every single time the topic of the so-called "friend zone" comes up, they seem denigrate all of guys who happen to have this problem, not just the ones who blame their problems on women.
If dudes would come in and say "I have romantic feelings for a friend, friendship isn't enough for me but I don't know how (or am too scared) to make my feelings known, does anyone have any advice?" rather than "Why do women ignore me and go for guys I disapprove of? What is wrong with them?" then I promise that people's reactions would be much more sympathetic.
I'm not disagreeing that being in that position sucks. Having strong feelings for a woman that you can't just shut off, knowing she doesn't feel the same, having to see her go off with other guys. I've been there, and it hurts. Really bad.
But the issue, the reason people react so poorly when the "friendzone" comes up, is that the guy bringing it up pretty much always tries to focus on how the woman is doing him wrong by not reciprocating his feelings (or how all women are doing him wrong, because the same thing seems to keep happening over and over again to these guys) when what he should be focused on is how to get out of that situation (if it is really making him that unhappy, then cutting contact may be the best option) and how to avoid ending up there again (mostly by being more straightforward about what he wants).
This just about sums it up perfectly.........
If you're constantly finding yourself in the same situation, then it's something you're doing not something other people are doing to you. You're making yourself the victim.
Some of you guys might think I'm insensitive but it's actually quite the opposite. My advice comes from a place of high affective empathy. I've been there. Lonely, depressed and on a cognitive feedback loop that only reinforced my insecurities. I took positive steps to get myself out of it. It took trial, error, heartbreak and a ton of painful introspection along the way but I emerged a far more balanced and likable person. The kind of person girls would like to date and/or be actual friends with. I also made plenty of guy friends along the way because i didn't just try to limit my personal social improvement to dating.
I am willing to bet that the problems you had was because of the social ineptness that forms part of Asperger syndrome, not because you were a jerk. Many aspires fail to have romantic relationships not because of "love-shyness" per say but because they don't know how to interact with other people, which is the same reason why they sometimes fail to even have friendships. This undue difficulty in social interaction forms part of the diagnosis in Asperger syndrome. If you managed to learn those social skills, thats great but it still seems counterproductive to imply that others are jerks for not yet having learnt them. Yes, it's still possible to learn them but it's still nonetheless part of the disorder.
Last edited by Jono on 08 Feb 2014, 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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