NT in love with Aspie but not her meltdowns

Post Reply New Topic

Hi everyone! This is my first post but I’ve been reading the forum and found it really helpful. I’m an NT woman and for the last 7 months I’ve been dating a brilliant, wonderful woman who has High Functioning Autism/Asperger’s. She told me her diagnosis as soon as I met her, and since she was trained as a behaviorist she has a very good understanding of it. I have also been educating myself by reading books, forums, etc. Unlike most stories I hear of NT-Aspie relationships, ours is very warm, touchy-feeling, and empathic. To be honest, I would never have guessed that she has autism if she hadn’t told me directly (except for the fact that she has very few friends).

The problem for me lies elsewhere. My partner has frequent meltdowns, which look very distinctively like neurological episodes (rocking back and forth, can’t speak, cognitive impairments, jerky movements, etc.). However, in the hours immediately preceding a meltdown, when she still looks like her articulate, intelligent self, she can be extremely verbally and emotionally abusive. She starts out as very cranky, and then quickly begins to treat me with outright contempt, calling me names (“filthy whore” was a recent one), blaming me and attacking my character with grand statements about “who” I am, rather than discussions of her feelings or what about my behaviors might have upset her. (I’ve long insisted that we try to use “fair fighting” techniques, “I feel” statements and all that, but it’s not happening). When we have an argument, her love for me seems to disappear completely. In fact, she has admitted to me that she literally doesn’t feel love anymore when she is upset. She says she just goes numb and feels no love, no longing for me, just nothing, whereas maybe only a few days prior she was courting me with some grand romantic gesture. Her affection seems very much “on/off” to me. It’s confusing me because she is otherwise a genuinely kind human being. In those pre-meltdown moments, however, I experience a kind of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde switch. Her words and behaviors are full of contempt and just nastiness. I keep telling her that I feel alone and insignificant very often in this relationship. It’s painful to watch her love disappear like that.

I am a well-educated, strong, independent woman, and I don’t take this kind of behavior lightly. Many of my friends have encouraged me to leave her, saying that while they don’t blame her at all for her autism, the effects (which perhaps she cannot control) are very hurtful to me. One of my friends recently pointed out that if my partner did NOT have Aspergers to explain her emotionally and verbally abusive outbursts, I would have left her already.

My first question to you is: Do any of you have experience with this pre-meltdown change in personality? Obviously I can recognize a meltdown when it’s happening to her, but I am confused about these times when she looks like her regular self, she looks like any NT person who is just cranky/grumpy and then outright abusive. They happen several times a week.

My second question is: Is there any hope for change? I really do love her. I love her talent, I love the beauty she sees in the world, her brilliant mind, and when she is in her “on” phase she is one of the most caring people I’ve ever met. It’s the “monster” (that’s her word, not mine) that takes over her that I don’t know if I can deal with. I know she feels terrible afterwards, and has a lot of self-loathing. However, she has a hard time apologizing. She told me she used to never say sorry for anything, and has worked on that a lot. Still, most of the times I don’t even hear an “I’m sorry.” Can anyone relate to any of this?

There might be hope, depending what's behind the change. I don't recognize such dramatic swings as part of autism, but not saying it's something else. Autism isn't any protection against mood problems or other disorders, so maybe think about what you would think is going on if you did not know she has autism could help you.

First off, nobody is in love with our meltdowns lol. Not even us. But I totally feel you.

I'm an aspie and married to n NT for 27 years. He's like a freaking vulcan. I can tell you this. To get to meltdown stage for me, things build and build. It takes one little tiny thing to throw me off the cliff and into psycho b***h mode. Oddly enough, that one little thing is probably not the reason I'm that upset. But I do start losing tact and manners and rational thought and such before I get there, because i'm still struggling to hold it together.

Think of it like this, if you will. You are coming home from work and stop at the grocery store. Now, you have to ride the bus cause you don't have a car, or it's in the shop, etc. So you stop and you get the things you have to. Three or four bags of them. You need all that stuff, and you can't do without it. It's stuff like trash bags, toilet paper, cokes, dog food, hamburger meat, etc. Just what you need. They don't have the plastic bags, they put them in paper sacks. So you stand out there waiting on the buzz, when it's drizzeling with your paper sacks full of groceries. They start getting wet. You start compensating by holding your hands under this or over that, and hugging them up tighter. You get on the bus and one of the sacks bust. The can of peaches falls out but you pick it up. You hold them differently. Then something else falls out. You shift things and put the bad bag on top of the good bags and just hope you make it home. But when you get out to walk the couple blocks home, the sacks get wet and no matter how you juggle, no matter how wierd and awkward you try to hold them, no matter what you stick in your coat pockets or even under your chin, it all falls out on the street in one big kerfluey. That is somewhat like what a meltdown is and how it happens to me. Little things, trying to maintain while they are going on, trying to keep up, and holding it as awkward or as crazy as you can while it's starting to happen.

I think she's just trying to hold on and maybe get out some anger if she can when she starts acting that way. It's the emotional equivilant of holding the package of bacon in your teeth while you have the meat under your arm and the dog food opened and stuffed into your coat pockets while walking up a hill in the rain.

_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com

She could also be bipolar on top of AS. The conditions usually go hand in hand.

If she hasn't yet, perhaps a psychiatrist could help her with some medication toward it. Her 'monster' stage could be an AS meltdown (sensory/emotional overload) piggybacking on the bipolar 'switch' in moods.

wish i could help. I don't get like that and lucky haven't had a meltdown since middle school, I just thought it was gone, now after reading this i wonder if it could happen again. :s

I argue, but i usually apologize right after and start feeling bad during the fight, or when yelling starts i shut down and try to go hide in my room. Certainly never stopped feeling love hmm. I really hope you can figure something out since you love her so much.

I probably went a good two-thee years without a meltdown in the past. Eventually one meltdown happened. Then another happened. I look at meltdowns for myself as a pattern of self defeat. You may try to hold everything all together and try and feel loved by others. But somehow, all these things working against you makes you feel like you aren't worth it.

In the past few months I became a Christian. I leaned that having a relationship with god was important. So I do prayer regularly. Essentially, I get my emotions and feelings out in prayer and also make sure to say positive things during prayer. I find that Noone else would be around during that time, but it works in changing my attitude. However, what I would advise below is essentially how others might look at what I am doing from their POV

Maybe the advice I would have for her is to get her time and space away from people when she feels a potential meltdown coming along. She can speak to herself and let out her emotions in private. I figure that you could call this practice. When she is ready to come out and show positive emotions towards you, you will know if she is practicing letting out her emotions.

After all. I do believe these meltdowns likely occur from being quiet about how we feel and not expressing these emotions effectively.

What would happen if you started to intervene early in the cranky phase, before she gets abusive? People with AS aren't always very aware of themselves and their emotions until it's too late, but it seems like you are good at identifying the pattern of behavior that shows a meltdown is coming. Encouraging her to take a break from what she's doing, going around to turn off overhead lights and sources of background noise, disrupting her tirades by reminding her "You don't usually talk to me like that, you must be feeling a bit overwhelmed. What can we do to alleviate some of your stress?" could snap her back to her love for you. She could need something as simple as a little snack to raise her blood sugar (a lot of us forget to eat and become monsters when we are hungry) or to take a few deep breaths--whatever she does to manage her stress (including rocking back and forth! It helps to self-sooth and is not a bad thing.)

Thank you very much everyone! I was feeling alone dealing with this situation, and your comments have really helped. OliveOilMom, I love the analogy!

Some of you have asked if there could be something else besides Autism going on. I know that earlier in life, before getting the autism diagnosis, she was misdiagnosed with Borderline Personality disorder (but my understanding is that it was in fact a wrong diagnosis). She's been on prozac for 5-6 years to help with the meltdowns, but according to the psychiatrists who first diagnosed her, she does not have bipolar (though it runs in her family). Honestly, I wish she could see someone right now, but she can't afford to at the moment.

Arielhawksquill suggested intervening earlier in the cranky phase. Sometimes we try to do that, but it's hard because it goes from 0 to 60 in a split second. We've tried the code "yellow" to signal she's getting escalated (her color scale is green, yellow, or red for active meltdown). Problem is she often doesn't have the self-awareness to use it. Sometimes I try to ask her, "Are you feeling yellow right now?" Occasionally she'll say yes, and it's helpful. Most of the times she will get enraged because she feels it's condescending to suggest that she might be escalated rather than validating her feelings and reasons for being upset. I do understand this, but in hindsight most of the times she admits that she was in fact yellow. I like the suggestion of phrasing it as, "what can we do to alleviate some stress now?" Or perhaps just getting her a snack! (You're right about the sugar drop! I've seen it).

The hardest thing for me to cope with is her withdrawal of affection. At least when she gets verbally abusive I can exit the situation. But what do you do when you are in a relationship with someone who one moment professes their undying love for you, and a day later literally feels nothing for you? Example: I was traveling overseas last week. She surprised me by having flowers and cookies delivered to my hotel room in another continent! Grand romantic gesture to let me know how much she missed me and loved me. Then we had what I would consider a very small argument, and the result was that she stood me up at the airport (was supposed to pick me up) and for the last few days her behavior has ranged from distant to rude, not at all into me, and indeed when asked she has confirmed that she feels numb and doesn't feel her love for me anymore, though it's probably deep down somewhere. She keeps telling me that I look different! (It's bizarre to me because I really don't look any different). I have read that this kind of "black and white" thinking can be part of autism. But does it extend to feelings of love? To being madly in love one day, and cold and disinterested the next?

Black and white thinking is part of autism, and for anyone, autistic or neurotypical love infused with anger might go back and forth from love to hate to love again.

But the withdrawal into feeling nothing for you that transforms back to love, over and over, is not something I recognize as related to or part of autism.

Since she cannot afford a specialist, might whoever prescribes her Prozac be able to see her, perhaps they can help. Also since she cannot afford to see someone, is it possible for you to see someone who might see you as a couple, help with communication?

Sounds a little like borderline personality disorder or bipolar disorder. Often someone with ASD will have a dual diagnosis, perhaps she should see a psychologist.

my boyfriend has the same problem with me . I can be very sweet the majority of the time but i lash out at him when im stressed or hungry ,and can be callous and mean. i make sure to bring alot of snacks with me and apologize profusely afterwards. sometimes we both see my therapist together and that helps alot . i dont think we would be together still if it wasnt for my therapist. we are each other soulmates and love each other alot but i know imm difficult to deal with. he almost broke up with me 6 months ago because i as getting to mean (we were living together ) and once that happened i relized the potential of losing him and stopped being vicious. i still get moody but no where near as bad. i also realized that my nt mom has the same issues shes cranky and a b***h half the time but the other half shes the sweetest person on the planet. you just have to ask for gradual improvement and change for your sake. and decide if it is worth it . which sounds like she is if you went through the trouble of posting this

I'm the NT partner of a verbally abusive ASD man. It was very manageable before we had a child. Now it's not. I realise that in a lesbian relationship this isn't the kind of thing that will sneak up on you, but other life challenges will. I am not able to predict his outlashings - but increasingly it's if I ask him to do anything that isn't part of his routine. Unfortunately, life doesn't run to his routine. I work full time and deal with a child. Sometimes I need to make different arrangements for pick up and drop off because of my work commitments - that recently led him to call me a "f*****g parasite" and a lot of other invective. At a time when I needed a more understanding and supportive partner because of a crazy busy work week instead I got extra stress and abuse.

This behaviour is NOT OK. No matter how understanding you try to be you will end up giving too much of yourself and become more tolerant of being called a dirty whore or other inexcusable things. Your partner becomes more tolerant of her own behaviour, too. Thinking it's 'ok' to lash out at you as a stress release. It isn't.

You may be well balanced and have a lot of support. But for me it's led to situational depression (I'm also prone to clinical depression - so I have easier triggers for this). Being with someone who can call you despicable names unpredictably will eat you up. I don't think it's worth it. If the behaviour is inexcusable in an NT partner, it's inexcusable period.

Sounds like a mix of higher functioning autism, and rapid cycling bipolar. I had a wife that was that way, except she wasn't autistic.

Thanks again everyone! I really appreciate all your thoughts and experiences. After a couple of days of little contact, she called me last night to break up with me. She has done it before (twice). I am so sick of this! Historically, I have noticed that when she is hurt (aren't we all?) she withdraws into a shell and starts throwing daggers from within. That means I feel both very alone (because of her withdrawing) and yet also very attacked and blamed (because of the hostility), even though I realize she is only doing it because she herself is hurt. As usual, she told me that she no longer feels love for me or that her love has diminished. I've heard it before: it's the usual hot and cold that I started out this thread asking about.

In response to those of you who think there might be something else besides Autism going on for her, that may very well be true. The way she can be madly in love one day and then suddenly feel nothing for me, the way she seems incapable of expressing remorse (not saying she doesn't feel it inside, but she certainly doesn't apologize)... I guess we'll never know. Lately she had been very invested in telling me that I must be borderline (no one has ever said that to me before, and yes I have seen a therapist, who also never thought that applied to me). I have read that sometimes people with BPD start pointing the finger and diagnosing others, so maybe. I really don't know what to think if this isn't just autism.

For my part, I am sad to lose the aspects of her that I loved very much, but I won't miss the cruel and self-centered behaviors. In this relationship I have pushed myself to learn to be more forgiving (I used to be very unforgiving!), and I was glad to see my own growth through these experiences. I was glad, for instance, to see that I could reach out to her and try to apologize for my part even while I was still very hurt. It would have been hard for me to do so just a few years ago. (BTW, she didn't appreciate it. She thought that coming back later to apologize for my part showed my "inconsistency"). The fact that she couldn't do that for me at all, that in her pain she could not remember me, my pain, or even her love for me, I think that means we are not right for each other. It's sad because I know she has a beautiful soul and she is acting out of fear, hurt, and poor coping skills. I'll keep myself busy with work and friends and self-care this week. But thank you everyone! This forum, and this thread in particular, has really helped me.