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GivePeaceAChance
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07 Apr 2014, 11:07 am

vickygleitz wrote:
Dates need not be expensive though. Pack an incredible picnic lunch. Bring a loaf of stale bread to feed the ducks or the chipmunks and walk around the lake with her. Pick a bouquet of flowers from your garden [or someone elses] before the date.


this is really the sort of first date I would prefer - you can't talk to each other and get to know the other person in a movie


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onewithstrange
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07 Apr 2014, 11:55 am

GivePeaceAChance wrote:
she is just following social custom, had you not made the fact that you expect dutch ahead of time how is she going to know? Seriously this is akin to punishing someone for driving on the correct side of the road.


Playing dumb to get out of paying your way through a meal is a huge turn-off. I thought it was firmly established on this board that there's no 'correct' side of the road, just different.


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FMX
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07 Apr 2014, 12:27 pm

onewithstrange wrote:
GivePeaceAChance wrote:
she is just following social custom, had you not made the fact that you expect dutch ahead of time how is she going to know? Seriously this is akin to punishing someone for driving on the correct side of the road.


Playing dumb to get out of paying your way through a meal is a huge turn-off.


Yeah, it's one thing for her to say or somehow politely imply that she expects the man to pay, but quite another to sneak off to the bathroom as onewithstrange says. Does that actually happen much? :) I wouldn't even mind paying, in and of itself, but that would really piss me off.


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leafplant
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07 Apr 2014, 12:44 pm

^^ are you sure this is why they go to the bathroom? I mean, personally, I would want to go and check I don't have any food stuck in my teeth and freshen up before the potential goodbyes ;0)

Most people need the bathroom after a meal, I didn't know it was a thing to try and avoid paying the bill!?



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07 Apr 2014, 1:14 pm

^^ Oh my god I've than this on a first date once with this guy I met on a dating site.
It was at a coffee shop and I ordered a small plain tea and while we waited for our orders I went to the restroom and when I got back he had already paid. I thought of offering to pay for mine (which I have done on other dates) but I didn't.
My tea couldn't have costed more than $3. I wonder if he thought I was pulling the "sneaking off to the restroom when the check arrives" routine?



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07 Apr 2014, 1:30 pm

The last time I went on an actual date, I immediately pulled out cash when the tab came to cover my portion. Since he'd spent most of the meal talking about having to move soon, and wishing he had a pickup truck like I did (hint much?), I was not terribly surprised when he only chipped in enough to cover his meal, not including tax or his share of the tip.

Needless to say, I declined when he asked me out again, more for the hinting than for the cheapskatery. I'd have been more likely to go out with him again had I merely been stuck with the entire tab, than having to listen to his thinly disguised hints that I either help him move, loan him my truck, or both. :?



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07 Apr 2014, 2:32 pm

leafplant wrote:
^^ are you sure this is why they go to the bathroom? I mean, personally, I would want to go and check I don't have any food stuck in my teeth and freshen up before the potential goodbyes ;0)

Most people need the bathroom after a meal, I didn't know it was a thing to try and avoid paying the bill!?


This is a fair point. I don't know exactly what onewithstrange had in mind, but I do give the benefit of the doubt to people I don't know yet. I meant that I would be pissed off if I was reasonably sure that that's what she was doing.


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onewithstrange
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07 Apr 2014, 3:08 pm

leafplant wrote:
^^ are you sure this is why they go to the bathroom? I mean, personally, I would want to go and check I don't have any food stuck in my teeth and freshen up before the potential goodbyes ;0)

Most people need the bathroom after a meal, I didn't know it was a thing to try and avoid paying the bill!?


It can wait until after the bill is paid. Deserting someone at the cashier's desk without determining how the bill was to be paid is incredibly rude, at least to me.


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leafplant
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07 Apr 2014, 4:19 pm

onewithstrange wrote:
leafplant wrote:
^^ are you sure this is why they go to the bathroom? I mean, personally, I would want to go and check I don't have any food stuck in my teeth and freshen up before the potential goodbyes ;0)

Most people need the bathroom after a meal, I didn't know it was a thing to try and avoid paying the bill!?


It can wait until after the bill is paid. Deserting someone at the cashier's desk without determining how the bill was to be paid is incredibly rude, at least to me.


Yea, I can see how some women may indeed use that as an excuse not to have to even offer to pay. Plenty of my "friends" have horrible ways of taking advantage of men and women. Which is why we are not friends anymore as it happens. It happened to me many times with my female friends, I'd pay while they were in the bathroom and they would just say thanks and sometimes try to give me money for their bit but usually I would just say no. Now I realise it was all on purpose. b*****s.



yellowtamarin
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08 Apr 2014, 1:39 am

vickygleitz wrote:
I do not personally know any women [ not talking my age, but my kids age] who have ever picked up the tab on the first date. In addition, most of them receive flowers either before,or sent after the date.

Wow, different worlds! I have been given a flower once or twice before a date, many years ago, and it was...strange. I have never received a bunch of flowers before or after a date (nor would I want to).

This whole discussion is probably a bit messy due to the members here living in countries all over the world, with different customs. I go on what I think is practical and rational but even that can be subjective.



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08 Apr 2014, 1:50 am

leafplant wrote:
onewithstrange wrote:
leafplant wrote:
^^ are you sure this is why they go to the bathroom? I mean, personally, I would want to go and check I don't have any food stuck in my teeth and freshen up before the potential goodbyes ;0)

Most people need the bathroom after a meal, I didn't know it was a thing to try and avoid paying the bill!?


It can wait until after the bill is paid. Deserting someone at the cashier's desk without determining how the bill was to be paid is incredibly rude, at least to me.


Yea, I can see how some women may indeed use that as an excuse not to have to even offer to pay. Plenty of my "friends" have horrible ways of taking advantage of men and women. Which is why we are not friends anymore as it happens. It happened to me many times with my female friends, I'd pay while they were in the bathroom and they would just say thanks and sometimes try to give me money for their bit but usually I would just say no. Now I realise it was all on purpose. b*****s.


Wow someone did that to you? That's horrible, sounds like you two are both involved with some horrible people, I wouldn't even associate myself with people like that.



leafplant
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08 Apr 2014, 1:57 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
I do not personally know any women [ not talking my age, but my kids age] who have ever picked up the tab on the first date. In addition, most of them receive flowers either before,or sent after the date.

Wow, different worlds! I have been given a flower once or twice before a date, many years ago, and it was...strange. I have never received a bunch of flowers before or after a date (nor would I want to).

This whole discussion is probably a bit messy due to the members here living in countries all over the world, with different customs. I go on what I think is practical and rational but even that can be subjective.


It's definitely subjective, but it may also be cultural. For example, back in my long gone twenties, I was sharing a house with some people, and one of them was a girl from Ireland. She met her boyfriend in a bar, went out with him once after which he sent a HUGE bunch of flowers to the house (which I thought was totes creepy but she thought it was sweet) and was taking over a week to decide whether she wanted to go out with him again or not. In the meantime he showered her with texts, phonecalls possibly flowers at work, all of which was normal to her but I thought was super creepy and would have run for the hills if that happened to me. Also, if I remember correctly, she did not expect to Ever pay when she went out with a guy, even though she earned very good salary. In her world, guys paid. But in her world good guys were really hard to come by too.

And it's funny because the country I grew up in was the same at the time and I could never pay for anything if there is a guy around even if it wasn't a date and there was a bunch of friends hanging around. Guys were brought up to think it was emasculating to let a woman pay for you so they'd never let you and if they did let you, you were taught to think less of them. (couldn't wait to get away from that place as you may imagine)



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08 Apr 2014, 3:12 am

leafplant wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
I do not personally know any women [ not talking my age, but my kids age] who have ever picked up the tab on the first date. In addition, most of them receive flowers either before,or sent after the date.

Wow, different worlds! I have been given a flower once or twice before a date, many years ago, and it was...strange. I have never received a bunch of flowers before or after a date (nor would I want to).

This whole discussion is probably a bit messy due to the members here living in countries all over the world, with different customs. I go on what I think is practical and rational but even that can be subjective.


It's definitely subjective, but it may also be cultural. For example, back in my long gone twenties, I was sharing a house with some people, and one of them was a girl from Ireland. She met her boyfriend in a bar, went out with him once after which he sent a HUGE bunch of flowers to the house (which I thought was totes creepy but she thought it was sweet) and was taking over a week to decide whether she wanted to go out with him again or not. In the meantime he showered her with texts, phonecalls possibly flowers at work, all of which was normal to her but I thought was super creepy and would have run for the hills if that happened to me. Also, if I remember correctly, she did not expect to Ever pay when she went out with a guy, even though she earned very good salary. In her world, guys paid. But in her world good guys were really hard to come by too.

And it's funny because the country I grew up in was the same at the time and I could never pay for anything if there is a guy around even if it wasn't a date and there was a bunch of friends hanging around. Guys were brought up to think it was emasculating to let a woman pay for you so they'd never let you and if they did let you, you were taught to think less of them. (couldn't wait to get away from that place as you may imagine)


What country did you grow up? I know in some European countries, it is mandatory for the guy to pay for everything.



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08 Apr 2014, 4:59 am

This is a cross-cultural thing except very few exceptions in this modern time, and it's still confusing and the guys never knows if he's being tested when the girl suggested dutch. In most culture, guys are expected to pay and girls put a lot of emphasis on this (they take it as if he pays half = cheapskate or not interested).

The reason for that is originally biological on primitive level, It's like the fighting duty in wars, in ALL cultures and all times, even in our time, it was always the males who were (and still mostly) sent to war: West, East, Middle East, Far East, Mongols, Romans, Egyptians, Greeks , Eskimos, Native Americans, African tribes...etc. Despite that women can equally kill with a spear or bow, or with a tank, so it's not just only about the physical strength. The same way the women's income is generally irrelevant to their belief in this rule (with exceptions ofc).

Girls are generally very strict when it comes to these paying rules and make it a big deal of the whole "Guy evaluation", as if their mothers teach them that the day they're born.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 08 Apr 2014, 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

voltagesparks
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08 Apr 2014, 5:16 am

leafplant wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
I do not personally know any women [ not talking my age, but my kids age] who have ever picked up the tab on the first date. In addition, most of them receive flowers either before,or sent after the date.

Wow, different worlds! I have been given a flower once or twice before a date, many years ago, and it was...strange. I have never received a bunch of flowers before or after a date (nor would I want to).

This whole discussion is probably a bit messy due to the members here living in countries all over the world, with different customs. I go on what I think is practical and rational but even that can be subjective.


It's definitely subjective, but it may also be cultural. For example, back in my long gone twenties, I was sharing a house with some people, and one of them was a girl from Ireland. She met her boyfriend in a bar, went out with him once after which he sent a HUGE bunch of flowers to the house (which I thought was totes creepy but she thought it was sweet) and was taking over a week to decide whether she wanted to go out with him again or not. In the meantime he showered her with texts, phonecalls possibly flowers at work, all of which was normal to her but I thought was super creepy and would have run for the hills if that happened to me. Also, if I remember correctly, she did not expect to Ever pay when she went out with a guy, even though she earned very good salary. In her world, guys paid. But in her world good guys were really hard to come by too.

And it's funny because the country I grew up in was the same at the time and I could never pay for anything if there is a guy around even if it wasn't a date and there was a bunch of friends hanging around. Guys were brought up to think it was emasculating to let a woman pay for you so they'd never let you and if they did let you, you were taught to think less of them. (couldn't wait to get away from that place as you may imagine)


I agree about the flowers and the phonecalls. Welcome to Creepland. I like flowers, but when I know that they are not ment to impress me or smooth over an argument, and for the first date that's just too much. On the whole paying for the date thing. I think the younger generation might not be as set in their ways and might not read too much into who pays. I mean, it's not like a guy is any less of a man if he agrees to split a check on a date. It annoys me that some women want to be seen and taken as independent, even as they insist on having their dinners paid for. Having a cake and eating it huh.



The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Apr 2014, 5:18 am

voltagesparks wrote:
leafplant wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
I do not personally know any women [ not talking my age, but my kids age] who have ever picked up the tab on the first date. In addition, most of them receive flowers either before,or sent after the date.

Wow, different worlds! I have been given a flower once or twice before a date, many years ago, and it was...strange. I have never received a bunch of flowers before or after a date (nor would I want to).

This whole discussion is probably a bit messy due to the members here living in countries all over the world, with different customs. I go on what I think is practical and rational but even that can be subjective.


It's definitely subjective, but it may also be cultural. For example, back in my long gone twenties, I was sharing a house with some people, and one of them was a girl from Ireland. She met her boyfriend in a bar, went out with him once after which he sent a HUGE bunch of flowers to the house (which I thought was totes creepy but she thought it was sweet) and was taking over a week to decide whether she wanted to go out with him again or not. In the meantime he showered her with texts, phonecalls possibly flowers at work, all of which was normal to her but I thought was super creepy and would have run for the hills if that happened to me. Also, if I remember correctly, she did not expect to Ever pay when she went out with a guy, even though she earned very good salary. In her world, guys paid. But in her world good guys were really hard to come by too.

And it's funny because the country I grew up in was the same at the time and I could never pay for anything if there is a guy around even if it wasn't a date and there was a bunch of friends hanging around. Guys were brought up to think it was emasculating to let a woman pay for you so they'd never let you and if they did let you, you were taught to think less of them. (couldn't wait to get away from that place as you may imagine)


I agree about the flowers and the phonecalls. Welcome to Creepland. I like flowers, but when I know that they are not ment to impress me or smooth over an argument, and for the first date that's just too much. On the whole paying for the date thing. I think the younger generation might not be as set in their ways and might not read too much into who pays. I mean, it's not like a guy is any less of a man if he agrees to split a check on a date. It annoys me that some women want to be seen and taken as independent, even as they insist on having their dinners paid for. Having a cake and eating it huh.


Honestly?? The younger they are the more likely they're strict in this rule.

At least this was my experience.