Personal Issues With girls

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I just recently came to the realization that I have Asperger's. A lot of this stems from the fact that I have had a lot of problems in the realm of women. Let me make this clear: I recognize that I am not entitled to any woman. However, obviously I'm not doing the right things, or I wouldn't be getting rejected like I have been. Obviously I am doing something wrong in terms of my personal presentation. I'm not a bad looking guy at all. I'm 6 feet tall and I weight about 160 pounds, but it seems that I have not mastered the art of getting women to become interested in me.

I went through my entire high school career without a smidgen of affection from the opposite sex. I had one girlfriend, and we only dated for two months. Aside from the occasional hug, there was no physical contact. I didn't like her at all. The only reason I dated was because the girl who I truly like rejected me. I needed to prove to myself that I could get a girlfriend.

I'm in the same boat now. I'm seeing a girl that I don't really like. The girl I was really interested in turned me down, probably because I asked to many questions and talked about myself too much. This is the story of my f*****g life. There was only one instance in my life that I can think of in which I actually got the girl I wanted. Initially, she rejected me, but after a while she eventually gave me a chance. We ended up falling in love and losing our virginities together. Even though we're not together anymore, I learned a lot from this relationship. Fundamentally, I learned that if you really want something/someone you can't give up. You have to work hard to project an image of yourself that is attractive.

I guess I'm just asking for general advice about how I can have more success with getting women to want to hang out with me who I actually like. I'm tired of compromising my personal standards and values to feel complete. How can I use my autism to my advantage when it comes to getting girls? I greatly appreciate any advice that anyone has to offer.

Well, for one thing, please don't date girls you don't like just to prove something to yourself or to have a girlfriend. It's really unkind to the girl -- you're only using her, and no doubt she feels that something's off. A lot of girls will assume they're doing something wrong instead of recognizing that you just don't like them much...and when they figure it out they may be angry or just deeply ashamed. At a minimum you're wasting their time; at worst something like this can really harm them.

About your problem, though:

The hard truth is that if you're an odd duck it can take a while. You can try projecting all the images you like, but it's not a winning strategy; if a girl's attracted, she'll be attracted to someone who's not really you and doesn't really exist. And as soon as you get tired, that guy vanishes. Then she's got the same problems I described above.

You're just going to have to be yourself, I'm afraid. A good self, someone you actually like and enjoy being, clean and nicely dressed and all, but yourself. Shared interests is always a good place to start. And women may respond better to you if you don't approach this as "getting girls". They aren't things to get, they're people. We can sense it when a guy's just looking for something female. Just go places where you're doing things you enjoy, things that also attract women, and see if you fall into conversation with them. Find out who they are, see if you like them, if it's mutual. And if you don't like them, don't try to date them because it's "better than nothing" -- I mean think how that would feel, being someone's "better than nothing" partner. Instead use the unattached time to improve yourself, do things you like, etc.

You may also want to pay attention to your body language, and see if you're sending nonverbal messages that say "not interested, stay away" or "something about me is just off".

Thanks for the advice. You're absolutely right when you say that women are not something to be gotten. Makes me think of a Pier Pasolini film called Salo or the 120 Days of Sodom, a film that deals with the dehumanization of people in the name of rampant consumerism. Women are not a commodity. I think a fundamental problem with our culture is that we assume that we have to measure up to the standards of others instead of our own standards. This has been a problem of mine for quite some time. I compare myself to other people. I am far too concerned about the superficial.

But I'm only 23 years old, so I have plenty of time to learn. I really do need to work on my body language, though, as you suggested. Also I need to start taking better care of myself in general. You have to love yourself before anyone else will feel the same way about you,

Oh man, you've got miles of time. And I think things will get easier for you. Only the unnaturally mature really understand what they're doing, who they are, how to be in relationships at 23. I think it's actually a very tough time, because you're supposed to know what's up, be an adult, but you just got there.

If you can free yourself from worrying about what random people think of your life/self/etc, and how you stack up next to them, you'll have done yourself one of the biggest favors possible. Six or seven years ago my old college roommate came to visit me -- I love this woman dearly and we've turned out to be strong friends. Known each other 30 years now. Anyway, she lives in a major city, has an arts life, well-paid job. So she's talking and I'm listening and thinking man, I really screwed up, I'm out in the sticks, I make no money, etc. Come to find out later that night that she's sitting there listening to me and thinking, "I f****d my life up completely -- Tarantella knows how to do it, she's got this big house, beautiful kid, work she loves, sweet little hip town, she's got the whole package and I've got nothing."

If you're happy, you're happy. But it's amazing how many people can't leave that alone. Anyway -- yeah, sounds like you have a plan.

I've done something like that my freshman year of college, with a girl in my class. Main reason being was being rejected in my senior year of high school for not having a car, and not getting to go to the prom as a result. The college freshman girl, who---lo and behold---actually showed interest in me and said she was cool with taking a city bus. But there was a problem: I wasn't physically attracted to her at all. I immediately kicked myself for even complaining about that, and told myself that I should be thankful for whoever is willing to date me, and that I'd be an idiot for turning down a possibility of a relationship because of something trivial like looks. Needless to say, when me and her went out dancing a few months later, she didn't want to dance close, because she didn't like me. Kind of serves me right, I guess, for taking a girl dancing when having no dance skills myself. How I faked it all night, I'll never know. This is the only time I might have hurt her feelings, since I stopped all "relationship behaviors" (frequent calls, little gifts, hugs, etc.) right after that night.

As I found out later in life, when I took real dance classes, this girl's actions were quite at odds with the dance community. I've danced very close, even chest-to-chest. with women I just met in Latin clubs and on cruises, even with those who didn't like me romantically. Although in Latin dancing, it seems like the better you can dance, the more women will let you get away with, even if they're not interested in you, because they somehow dismiss the physical acts as just another part of the dance you're doing. I'm talking about sexy but relatively innocent moves, like briefly pressing into each other or running your hand along their arm, not blatantly sexual stuff like grabbing their breasts. With me not knowing how to dance at all, I'm surprised my lady friend was even OK holding hands.

I would have no problem whatsoever being someone's "better than nothing", especially considering that all my relationships were pretty much like that. For a girl who's really desperate for a boyfriend, although this is extremely rare, a nasty-looking guy like me just might be "better than nothing". In fact, the only people I had sex with that I actually found attractive were escorts. My social skills aren't that great, and until a year or so ago, when I kind of aged into my looks, I used to be pretty nasty-looking. And even though I'm "better than nothing", the woman in question is still dating me, goes places with me, hugs me, kisses me, and has sex with me. I get all the benefits of dating. So I have no reason to complain. I fill my role. She fills her role, That's all there is.

Having been a woman in the social dance community for a couple of decades, let me chime in a minute on this. Your college girlfriend may have not wanted to dance close for a few reasons
1) She might have picked up on the fact that you didn't find her physically attractive. This may have made her feel uncomfortable about her body, and she didn't want to put it next to yours.
2) Like you said, she didn't like you anymore, and she didn't feel comfortable getting that close to you.
3) Men who can't dance yet often step on feet! A way of protecting yourself is to step back so you can see your partner's oncoming feet out of your peripheral vision.

People in the dance community often don't like or dislike their partners. They feel neutral about them. There are some people you end up liking more than others because they become friends or your dancing styles work well together. For people you dislike, you don't dance with them. If a lady starts dancing with a partner and realizes she doesn't feel comfortable with him, she may end the dance. More commonly, she'll rest her left hand in front of the lead's right shoulder instead of on top. This creates a frame that prevents body contact.

You're right about flirty physical moves that don't go too far, but every female dancer has stories about breast grazes on turns, the hand that ventures from the back to the butt, and other weird things. I once danced with someone for the first time who leaned in toward my neck and smelled my hair. Creeptastic. He never got another dance with me. However, I enjoy flirty (even racy) dances with men who are enjoying the fun of the dance rather than my body.

ETA: Not that you don't know these things, I just wanted to elaborate on it in case someone else reading got the wrong idea and decided to take up dancing so they can rub up against women. Seems like every dance scene ends up with that one creepy guy that ruins it for everyone.

I've had such situations happen on cruises, for some reason. Namely, women I just met acted very affectionate with me while dancing. The best one was when I danced with three women to "Sweet Caroline"; the four of us put our arms around each other, pretty much let our bodies go limp, and rocked side-to-side. We seemed to be rocking more with the movement of the ship under our feet, than with the melody of the song. It all felt very hypnotic and unreal . (This wasn't the initial interaction; I swing danced with two of those women earlier.) I was tempted to take the interaction to the next level, but something told me not to. Turned out my intuition was right. I wrote about it in another thread, and one person explained to me it was just friendly flirting, a way of making me feel good because they enjoyed my company, and little or no romantic interest was behind it. After all, women aren't stupid. They know their affections feel good; they just don't give them to everyone universally, and rightfully so.

Your last paragraph couldn't be more true. Heck, it's why I took my lady friend to go dancing: I was desperate for closeness/touch. (We never even kissed, so the term "girlfriend" is incorrect.) Needless to say, it backfired on me. But it's very true that respecting your partner's boundaries is a must. If you get to close at the wrong times, word will get around, and women won't dance with you. You said it right: Do not get into the dance scene to satisfy your touch needs. It's a great way to meet women; just remember that in 95% of cases, the standard closed position is the maximum you'll get.

Another element to take into account is culture. I found that Hispanic women seem less careful about keeping appropriate dancing distance with me than other ethnicities. The reason for it is this: the Latin culture is touch-heavy in general. Everybody except non-related men are quite physically expressive with each other. It's not meant to be romantic or sexual; it's just a high level of friendliness toward a person they trust, and it won't happen if they catch the "creeptastic" vibe. Still, it takes me some degree of self-control not to try escalate the situation, when a Hispanic women is practically hugging me on the dance floor while doing salsa.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 29 Jun 2014, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just want to differentiate "the dance community" (which is like a social club for people who really want to dance) from "going out dancing with your bf/gf" (where it's about the two of you). And Felis is right, if you go do dance-community things and treat it like the lady dancing with you is trying to date you, you'll be that creepy guy.

Aspie1, if a guy isn't attracted to a woman...very often we know it. If he keeps coming around giving mixed signals, being physical, but being strange and put-off about it, some women may hang around a bit waiting for the picture to resolve, not wanting to be hasty and dump a guy who's confused or...who knows. Just not wanting to be hasty. But it doesn't feel at all good to be used as a "well at least I have a girlfriend" girlfriend. Your college girlfriend may have stopped liking you partly for that reason. And yeah, abruptly breaking things off without explanation is going to hurt people.

How do you know that you're "better than nothing" for your girlfriend? Is that what she told you? If not, you might be making a very big mistake in assuming that this is what you are to her. Likewise, if she's genuinely into you and she's your "better than nothing", but believes you care for her as much as she cares for you, that could be quite problematic.

Unnaturally mature if you are 23 and know how to be in a relationship? What? Sorry, not true. Lots of people I know were married in their early 20's and it worked. I married my second husband when I was 22 and we have been together 27 years. He was 23. I think 23 is old enough to be able to know how to have a relationship, but it's also not unheard of to not know how to if you haven't had any practice.

Didn't you complain about him being extremely depressed and unmotivated not too long ago? I can't imagine it has anything to do with using an "open marriage" as an excuse to sleep with other men, including one that apparently got herpes at some point.

My college "girlfriend" was an oddball situation. After being kind of brutally rejected in my high school senior year for not having a car, when this girl showed interest in me, which was in my college freshman year, I was so happy, I didn't think about anything but beating the odds. A girl wanting to date me while specifically knowing I don't have a car seemed like a dream come true. And I wanted to live out the dream! Having that said, my counter-reaction to her not wanting to dance close was fair. At least in my mind at the time. After all, if she didn't want to be in a relationship with me, I saw no reason to keep doing relationship things for her. Hence, the abrupt end.

As for my future girlfriends (real this time), my line of reasoning was this. I was quite unattractive at the time, so I knew those girls could do better if they wanted to or could, but somehow chose me. I also "knew" they'd dump me as soon as they found someone better-looking, but I had no problem with enjoying the relationship and benefiting from it while it lasts. And I had no problem with knowing that those women are dating me out of desperation, whether or not that was true. As I later learned, women can't lower their sexual standards as easily as men can, so those women being sexual with me meant that their attraction was real. Live and learn.

I live in the midst of tens of thousands of early-20somethings packed into a not-very-large town. Yeah, it's pretty unusual for them to know up from down, relationshipwise, at that age. They don't have much experience yet as grownups, haven't put lives together, don't know who they are or what they really want, where they want to live, etc. Their whole lives have been contained and buffered by schools and their parents, and they're way more focused on getting their own lives started (and getting jobs, any jobs, anywhere) than on getting married. Some run off and get married as soon as they graduate -- some are very focused, very "we're going to make a family now" -- but not too many. It looks to me like the usual problem's that one person's a lot more solid than the other -- more drive, more sense, more focus. And of course a lot of them are burdened with huge debt, which adds stress to everything and forces decisions. The grad students...well, they've got an unnaturally difficult situation. Some show up with spouses. Many of those leave divorced. I can't say I'd recommend signing up to be grad-school spouse.

I also don't know anyone my age who's married to the person they were dating at the end of college...mm, no, there's one. And I know a couple who married at 26 after years of dating, but it was pretty rough -- she was a lot more mature than he was. They're okay now, though, he grew up. They also both had very strong, local families. Oh, and there was a crazy guy who'd skipped college and married an even crazier 17-year-old...bad story that one was, he left her high/dry for his highschool sweetheart a few years later, when the wife was pregnant. I think most of us got married, if we married, around 30 or so. Most married people they'd met in grad school, and lived together while in school, but waited till graduation to get married and start families. Which I think is smart, see above.

At 23 I was deciding not to marry my college boyfriend (dodged a serious bullet there) and recognizing that I didn't have the temperament for my chosen career. I think I'd already thrown out the no-good post-college boyfriend...yep, that's right, got a better job so I could pay all the rent myself. But I really had no idea where my life was going to go. Had a pretty good idea what I'd be doing, but it wasn't solid yet, and moving far away for grad school wasn't on the horizon. And I sure didn't want kids, didn't see that as a thing for me till I was 30 or so.

I think you are speaking to a social/economic phenomenon that is part of modern America. I don't know very many people my age who were mature enough to get married when they were in their early 20's. It's hard out here. 30 is the new 18 because of economic issues. Back when my parents got together, it was a different story. There is also the college/professional class of young people (who spend their 20's in school and entry-level jobs, thus extending their adolescence) and the working class/poor young people (people who go into adult life at age 18 with no career aspirations). Most of the college/professional class people I know don't get married until they are in their 30's. The working class/poor get married and have kids a lot younger.

I think that's true. People who study these things also say that poorer and less-well-educated young people are more often skipping marriage altogether, also divorcing more easily and often, and that marriage itself is becoming a middle-class phenomenon. Which to me makes sense, because marriage is also about finances and asset planning, and if you're chronically in debt and don't own anything, and aren't in the habit of making financial plans for 10, 15, 25 years out, there's nothing to protect once the emotional bond is gone. If you're someone who puts away college money for the kid while you're pregnant, you'll also do the numbers and recognize that the college fund will support a state school living at home if you're divorced; a much larger range of colleges if you stay married; and there's a whole lot of opportunites the kids won't have in the meantime if both parents are working all the time just to get by. So you'll suck it up and maybe try longer to fix things, or at least just live with them.

I think this is getting a little off-topic. My one bit of advice is that if you see a girl you like, in order: Introduce yourself, if you can get a number, fine; Next time you see her try to get a casual date/number; if first meet-up went ok then ask for a more formal "date."

There is no such thing as "girls being attracted to me." 99% of girls will hide their attraction on penalty of mortifying embarrassment so you essentially have to just assume you are the hottest thing this side of sol, and move quickly and decisively before they self-reject (i.e. interpret your hesitance as disinterest) and mentally block you off.

Some girls kiss on the first date, some don't but generally dinner dates are more likely than coffee dates to escalate that way. Physicality is tricky and I'm not that great but generally if they invite you to be alone with them and you have been making out for 5-10 minutes you can start pushing boundaries.

I know that in the club the way to get noticed is to make eye-contact and smile, then look away and watch for them looking at you (without staring), and then approach immediately if they are.

In other situations where people are less intoxicated that doesn't always work, but if you introduce yourself briefly, talk for a minute or two and break off, then try to talk to them later and gauge their reaction has worked ok for me when my anxiety doesn't get in the way. They key to this is to not just be graceful with "no" but happy about it. The first girl you talk to should not be your main interest, but an acquaintance (not a close friend) of hers. The goal is to get rejected gracefully so when she gossips about you it will be mostly positive, setting favorable preconditions for the next attempt. I also like to just flirt with everyone a little bit because when you publicly flirt well, you engender yourself not just to the flirtee but also interested observers.

He's 15, buffinator. The girl's at church. He's not going to the club to hit on drunk girls.

Also, like...this program of yours is part of why girls stay away from clubs; they don't want to have to deal with skeezy players trying to move in for the kill. Out in the world of people who aren't just tryna get laid, yes, girls express interest, and don't reject in a nanosecond if you hesitate.

And do not ever start "pushing boundaries", ever, ever. Jesus. Thank you for reminding me to explain to my daughter that guys like you actually exist, and that you aren't some paranoid fantasy made up by old people. In fact I'll just copy and save your post for her. Some decent guy can hate you later for making him have to prove to her that he's not like you.