When does a woman owe you sex chart

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Yuzu
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25 Jul 2014, 12:11 pm

AlexanderDantes wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Not all men think this way,but some think that if they buy dinner you owe them something in return.If you are not into them they come back with names like dick tease,frigid.dyke,ice princess,user,etc...
Of couser there are some women that will go out with a man to get something,gold diggers,neither sex is perfect.


What the hell? Why are you even accepting dinner from men if you aren't engaging with them? In the same way, women shouldn't reciprocate or accept anything from men that they have no attraction for, why are you accepting dinner from them if you have no intention of engaging with them? I can understand if it's a blind date but other than that, shouldn't happen..

Maybe if women didn't flirt or absorb attention with no intention of engaging, this kind of behavior wouldn't happen.


So if you ask a woman out for a dinner and she accepts, to you it means that she's agreed to something more?
It will probably save you from future frustration if you discard this idea.



Cafeaulait
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25 Jul 2014, 12:19 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig6mB6GYI5c

2:00: LMFAO

I used to think all guys with an ASS were like that. How wrong was I.



TheGoggles
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25 Jul 2014, 12:26 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig6mB6GYI5c

2:00: LMFAO

I used to think all guys with an ASS were like that. How wrong was I.


That lady is super lucky she made that mistake in a country that doesn't set buses on fire when they WIN a football game.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Jul 2014, 12:53 pm

Yuzu wrote:
^ Not quite. His wife earns money and also manages it. In the Japanese system you've mentioned, men earn money and wives manage it and run the household.
In AngelRho's household it's just that the traditional gender roles are reversed. (Which seems to be working great.)


You're right, but I was referring to the money/paycheck part in his marriage.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Jul 2014, 1:04 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
Using sex as reward/punishment is a mind game and, unless you're in a consensual kinky-sh** relationship, pretty f****d up.

As for the whole "our body" thing...mm nope. There are several things that are mine and don't belong to anyone else:

- my body
- my mind
- my time
- my money
- my talents
- my work.

I may decide to share them with someone else, but that doesn't mean I'm obliged to make it a permanent condition. And, having been in a marriage to someone who lied in pretty important ways on the way in, I'm very grateful I didn't go all romantic and stayed quite practical about what's mine. If I hadn't, my kid wouldn't have a house today, and likely wouldn't have college plans, either. A chunk of my retirement would also be gone.

If someone else is not enthusiastic about having sex with me, but is doing it as a favor? Egh, no. Just no. I don't need a whole other person as a sex toy. (I'm actually somewhat surprised by how hard that idea creeps me out.)

This whole business with "but you'll break up the marriage" as a goad...likewise, no. My not wanting something my spouse wants isn't 'me breaking up the marriage', it's him wanting something that's not in the marriage just then. And which may or may not come back. If he wants it regularly and bad enough to leave, well, so be it. If he's willing to walk out on kids to go get it, I won't have much respect for him, but so it goes. After ten years of being the responsible party here as a single mom, I really have little sympathy for the whole 'my needs!' thing once kids come along.

Someone not having sex with you because they don't want sex -- that's not being mean.

That's a self-centered attitude. I think that putting the needs of others ahead of my own and making that the focus of how I relate to my wife works out better. As an example, I never see a penny of my own paycheck. I rarely buy things for myself. All I know is the lights are still on, water still runs, and we have plenty food. She does bring financial issues to my attention. Most of the time, I'm, like, "hey, you're smart. Sounds good. Make it happen." Sometimes it's absolutely not, especially if it involves debt. I never even ask, but she feels it best to keep me informed wrt "our" money.

The ability to have ours vs. mine depends on both people agreeing willingly to it being a permanent condition. If someone is a liar or insists on a self-centered approach, then no, it's not going to work. We talked about this before we got married, and we took enough time to make sure it was something we could both get on board with. And, too, "ours" doesn't mean all that's yours is mine,mine, mine...it means we both share in everything we bring in regardless of how much/little or whether it's for good or bad. Your liability is our liability and I'm just as responsible.


I'd say you're fine right up to the...hm, no, actually. It's a highly romantic view, but over the long term can get quite problematic.

Say for instance that -- with regard to sex -- something happens along the way, You become ill, or someone assaults you sexually and it has a traumatic impact. Or your wife has a baby and the birth is difficult, and sex is painful for her for the next two years, and the struggle over it (and your pressure to, you know, solve the problem or just get you off somehow) makes her not want even to hear the word sex. Or you might have a serious falling-out. I don't know about you, but I don't have sex with people I'm really upset with, it feels violative. Or you have kids and wind up working opposite shifts for four years so you can afford their early childhood, and your wife is really too exhausted and stressed to be dealing with you wanting sex, too -- and there really isn't anything to be done about the exhausting, stressful time except to get through it and wait for the children all to be in school.

These are all ordinary things, in a marriage. They're why couples go years sometimes without sex. There isn't any permanent promising in that regard, and it doesn't mean the spouses are liars. It just means they're people.

As for the your-liability-is-mine...again, that's nice if all goes well and everyone behaves. When a spouse becomes an addict, embarks on retail therapy, or has a medical condition that can sink the family, that can and likely should change, particularly if you have children's financial wellbeing to consider.

I've had a fair number of men complain about my attitude in this, and get cranky because I won't just trust them to take care of me and mine, now and forever; they've taken it quite personally. But the fact is that all too often that turns into "I'm sorry" or "I really wanted to", and good wishes do not, alas, pay the bills. And it's funny how, in the eagerness to play provider and trusted guy, they've passed on accepting the compliment: if I'm financially independent and my own person -- financially, sexually -- then there can be only one reason I'm with them. I want to be. Every day I'm there.


You....you had a fair number of men of every type possible; had you bfs who ran for presidency elections too?



AngelRho
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25 Jul 2014, 1:19 pm

Yuzu wrote:
^ Not quite. His wife earns money and also manages it. In the Japanese system you've mentioned, men earn money and wives manage it and run the household.
In AngelRho's household it's just that the traditional gender roles are reversed. (Which seems to be working great.)

I'm not comfortable with the reveresal. I liked being the big wage earner back in the early days. My wife also prefes more traditional roles. The way things are is due to life just happening (job loss, lack of related opportunities, lack of demand for certain services, etc.). I had the good fortune recently of licensing two songs to a tv production company for a small fee. Small victories, I know, but it's encouraging and reminds me not to give up.

Being poor for the moment has put a lot of things into perspective. I never fully understood why it's important to only pay in cash and never take out loans. Now I know and understand why poor people are often perpetually poor. We may be poor, but we don't do things poor people do. So when we have an extra $100 at the end of the month it's like Santa came early.

It is a fact men have better earning potential, regardless of whether you think that's good, bad, or simply status quo. So I do find it distressing I can't find anything to earn at least what I got teaching. But on the other hand, a musician pretty much has to rely on himself and only has himself to blame if things don't improve. Which is why that tv gig was such a big deal for me...I want to get more licensing gigs!

I did get the drop on a school band directing that just opened up but had to turn it down on principle. They already have a guy they're comitted to, and I have a big problem with stealing jobs. So if I can get my teaching license back up to date and maybe do some volunteer work at that school in the meantime, I might be back on top in the next year or two. The negative is I've gotten back into writing and recording music almost full time and I've had extra time to spend with my kids. That will all be gone if I go back to teaching school, so it's really a tough decision for me right now. Being impoverished has fully demonstrated that some things are just more important than money.



Cafeaulait
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25 Jul 2014, 1:19 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig6mB6GYI5c

2:00: LMFAO

I used to think all guys with an ASS were like that. How wrong was I.


That lady is super lucky she made that mistake in a country that doesn't set buses on fire when they WIN a football game.


LOL!

CRUNCHYTITS



vickygleitz
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25 Jul 2014, 2:24 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I think that sex is somewhat owed in a marriage, by both the husband and the wife. I don't think it's owed at any time, for any reason, all the time, drop of a hat, the wind is blowing thing, but unless one partner has a physical problem with sex that makes it uncomfortable, then I think it's wrong to constantly deny the other person. I've been married 27 years and had a lot of sex with my husband. e don't do it very often now, but that's because we are both 50 and he's having trouble getting it up and I just don't care that much about sex right now cause of menopause. However, there are times that I've had sex with him when I wasn't interested in it, and when he's had it with me when he wasn't interested in it, and there were times that both of us have told the other one no. It's not going to kill me or hurt me in any way to screw my husband when I'm not horny and he is. In fact, it doesn't even have to last very long cause I can just throw it into overdrive and get it over with in ten minutes and he's satisfied and goes to sleep.

I don't think anybody owes sex for a date though, or for being in a relationship that isn't long term, committed, etc. I lump living together in with being married too.

Sex is just sex, it's not like you are giving somebody a kidney.


I totally agree with you. Since getting treatment it has only been once in a blue moon that I have been "horny." [ thank god for those rare blue moons] The longest Bobby and I have gone without making love is the first month after he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure [ even right now, while living apart, we still "do it."]

I have to use products and only certain positions, and I can always give oral and do it in a way that not only makes his body happy but makes him feel desirable and cherished to his core. I believe if you are only going to give when you are in the mood, then you should encourage your mate to spend time with others. It is not fair to make a commitment to another, which has sex involved,and expect that person to honor the commitment when their mate [unless there are true impossibilities] denies sex on a regular basis.



tarantella64
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25 Jul 2014, 3:27 pm

@Boo, lol, no, no presidential candidates. (Seriously, I cannot even. America isn't ready for me as First Lady.) I've met a lot of presidential candidates, though, and worked for legislators. And spent my 21st birthday being fêted w/champagne by a prof and a finance minister at some London club. It was delightful, but not as nice as the surprise birthday party my flatmate arranged with his friends at a North Indian restaurant, completely delicious food there. Biochemist and nice fellow, also a handy bike mechanic. Wish I knew where he was these days.

Local Dem party machine types tried to stand me for office several years ago but I said no, wrong number, sorry. I'm not what's wanted for elected office.

:) And I wouldn't say the men were of every type possible. All quite bright and nerdy, mostly artists and academics, with a weirdo thrown in here/there.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Jul 2014, 4:57 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
@Boo, lol, no, no presidential candidates. (Seriously, I cannot even. America isn't ready for me as First Lady.) I've met a lot of presidential candidates, though, and worked for legislators. And spent my 21st birthday being fêted w/champagne by a prof and a finance minister at some London club. It was delightful, but not as nice as the surprise birthday party my flatmate arranged with his friends at a North Indian restaurant, completely delicious food there. Biochemist and nice fellow, also a handy bike mechanic. Wish I knew where he was these days.

Local Dem party machine types tried to stand me for office several years ago but I said no, wrong number, sorry. I'm not what's wanted for elected office.

:) And I wouldn't say the men were of every type possible. All quite bright and nerdy, mostly artists and academics, with a weirdo thrown in here/there.


You sound too glamorously irresistible to be a First Lady, the men would line up to vote you instead to be the first Lady President of the US.



tarantella64
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25 Jul 2014, 5:27 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
@Boo, lol, no, no presidential candidates. (Seriously, I cannot even. America isn't ready for me as First Lady.) I've met a lot of presidential candidates, though, and worked for legislators. And spent my 21st birthday being fêted w/champagne by a prof and a finance minister at some London club. It was delightful, but not as nice as the surprise birthday party my flatmate arranged with his friends at a North Indian restaurant, completely delicious food there. Biochemist and nice fellow, also a handy bike mechanic. Wish I knew where he was these days.

Local Dem party machine types tried to stand me for office several years ago but I said no, wrong number, sorry. I'm not what's wanted for elected office.

:) And I wouldn't say the men were of every type possible. All quite bright and nerdy, mostly artists and academics, with a weirdo thrown in here/there.


You sound too glamorously irresistible to be a First Lady, the men would line up to vote you instead to be the first Lady President of the US.


:lol: Yes, that's what I've been going for all along, irresistible glamor. I'll cede the honor to Hillary, who may actually have a shot at it if the GOP runs Chris Christie. I can't even remember who else they've got -- oh, that fratboy Rand, we do like our fratboys here. No one else stands out.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Jul 2014, 6:09 pm

^ Omg, you do laugh after all.



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25 Jul 2014, 7:32 pm

Asking when a woman owes sex is a loaded question, since it makes us automatically liken it to owing money. It conjures to mind images of demanding that the sex debt be settled, or of rape (akin to seizing assets in response to an unpaid debt).

I most certainly don't see sex this way. Nor do I think a person should do it if they know they won't take any pleasure in it. However like many things, sex and intimacy are well understood to be a common basic needs in a relationship, just as it's a given that you do not go out and have sex with someone else. In a marriage or relationship where you have decided to have children together, it is pretty unreasonable to deny a basic need for a prolonged period of time and refuse to even try to work on the issue.

It's easy to get complacent in long term relationship, and take your partner for granted. Not making a sincere effort might be easy in so many aspects. Perhaps it's simpler to avoid communicating with your partner, and read the paper instead, because you're tired from your day and don't feel like talking. Maybe even for months or years on end. Would they then be justified in thinking this a little unfair on them?

Other basic needs might include being noticed and appreciated, kisses hello and goodbye, being asked how your day was, physical affection, honesty, gifts at special occasions, your partner letting you know where they're going and when they'll be back etc. There might be reasons why your partner might not feel like doing any one of these things, or might find them very difficult (tiredness, depression, distracted by other things etc). But under normal circumstances they should at least make a decent effort. To keep a relationship healthy beyond a couple of years does tend to take effort. A partner who just does or doesn't do whatever they feel like in a given moment, and does not take the extra step is not a very good partner.

When it comes to sex, the most important aspect is the bond it creates. While I'm not very into the idea of just loaning your body to your partner because they're feeling horney, I do think that if your partner really wants it, it's important to try to make yourself physically and emotionally available for an experience that will be mutually pleasurable. Try a little cuddling and kissing and see if it can lead anywhere for example. If this isn't working out and it's been like that for a long time, the decent thing to do would be to try to identify and address any issues getting in the way. Eventually even seeking professional help might be a good idea.

I'm basically saying that one ought to make an effort in a marriage, with sex just as with any other basic need, and not just take the attitude that it's your partner's problem. If you've made a sincere effort and it's still not working, then I do not think anyone should force themselves despite disliking the experience. This would be unhealthy for the relationship, and probably only lead to resentment.



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25 Jul 2014, 8:47 pm

XFilesGeek, after reading this thread, is infinitely grateful it is asexual......


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25 Jul 2014, 8:49 pm

Yuzu wrote:
According to this article In Norway, Gender Equality Does Not Extend to the Bedroom, Norway is still one of 12 members of the European Union that do not explicitly criminalize rape within marriage,
That's surprising for a Scandinavian country.

If I understand correctly, this doesn't mean that rape in marriage is not a crime. It means that there is no explicit provision that marital rape is a crime; but there is no exception either that would say it's not crime. According to Wikipedia it's a crime in all of Europe.

Btw marital rape not being a crime is not necessarily gender unequality, at least in theory. In the laws of some religions, including Judaism and Christianity, both spouses owe sex to each other. (I don't give any importance to religious law, I just cited it as a curiosity.)


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