What if we *didn't* have trouble getting dates in early yrs?

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Shebakoby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2009
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,759

28 Oct 2014, 3:56 am

the early years (teens) for me was a time where since I was still in school, and h8rs gonna h8, (not to mention bullies gonna bully, and that being mostly bullies of the opposite sex). When the sex of the people you're attracted to is also the sex of the majority active bullies, there's not much anybody can do.

That was the main source of the problem for me.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,567
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

28 Oct 2014, 6:10 am

Based on my observation, people who had hard times gettting dates as teens, find it hard as adults too.
Same for the opposite case.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,396
Location: Adelaide, Australia

28 Oct 2014, 6:47 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Based on my observation, people who had hard times gettting dates as teens, find it hard as adults too.

That's a very astute observation. Would you hypothesise that the former causes the latter or that they both had a common cause?


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,161
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

28 Oct 2014, 6:52 am

@WantToHaveALife: I can't speak for everyone, but there's tons of good non-fic out there. I used to rescue my mom's Redbook magazines from the circular file and I absorbed all the love/relationship articles like a sponge. Women and men are NOT all that different when it comes to romantic relationships--we all want the same thing. It's just men's magazines are "masculine" and are all about taking a commanding lead in a relationship. That's not always realistic, and it's just not ME. Women's mags are a lot kinder. They are designed to cater to women's interests. So if you're a man who wants to know what women want, subscribe to Cosmo.

On the more "manly" side, I'd stay away from self-help books aimed at a male audience. Heck, I'd stay away from any relationship self-help book. What I found useful were broader texts like 7 Habits (Stephen Covey), Art of War (Sun Tzu), 48 Laws of Power (?, and not a "self-help" book per se), Art of Deception (a commentary on corporate security, but useful in understanding human psychology. Social engineering works for good guys who honestly need help just as well as it does for con artists and identity thieves), and most recently How to Win Friends and Influence People (Dale Carnegie--public speaking guru. Very dated, but every self-help guy since has been repeating the same advice. Also has an entire section devoted to romantic relationships). None of those are aimed at romantic relationships, btw, but romantic relationships are relationships. Understand human relations as a whole and dating becomes a no-brainer.

My usual dating-for-beginners repartee is ripped straight from Dave Ramsey's "baby-steps" approach to getting rid of debt. It's not that debt has anything directly to do with dating?it's the psychology of the approach. Start small, and over time translate small victories into large ones. That's from the Total Money Makeover book. Covey echoes the importance of small victories in 7 Habits. I'd use the Carnegie stuff with a lot of caution--Carnegie's approach begins with the inherent selfishness of human nature. It's very Ayn Rand. I agree up to a point, but where Randian ideals fail is where human beings make the free-will CHOICE to adopt altruism for themselves. Likewise, Carnegie doesn't go far enough in exploring altruism in his book. He essentially says if you want to get what you want, you have to give others what they want. It's really Golden Rule/Jesus, but it's not framed in the same spirit as the Bible or other more altruistic texts. Read and study Dale Carnegie, but keep a good-sized grain of salt with you when you do it.

And if you're going the self-help route, you need to keep an eye out for that. It all basically boils down to the same things.



Uprising
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,908

28 Oct 2014, 8:16 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Based on my observation, people who had hard times gettting dates as teens, find it hard as adults too.
Same for the opposite case.

Because we get rejected for the same reasons as we got bullied for in the past.



RightGalaxy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,145

28 Oct 2014, 9:25 am

I always had dates but never got asked out for second or more commonly a third date. I would hear comments like, "Never again with that f'n goofball!" "She's sexy but has like-an-attitude" . "She's just too smart like a know-it-all" "Just took her out because she was there" "She stares at other guys too much" "She talks too much" "She dresses like a whore then acts like one of the guys" "drinks too much" "eats too much" "expensive date" "Wants gifts" "Wants to go on ALL the rides" "won't slow dance" "won't fast dance" "Can't speak French" "doesn't look white" "Won't get high" "Ghetto snob" "walks like a Sherman tank" "Smiles like a shark" "looks cross-eyed sometimes" "likes to have too much fun" "stares at me too much" "thinks I'm made of money" "smells weird" AND FINALLY, "she doesn't have friends"



Cryptex
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 26

28 Oct 2014, 10:10 am

I may be rambling, but it's a difficult subject anyway.

All these comments are so sad, yet so true. It would be nice if the world could see this topic, and understand what's it's actually like to live with AS. We are NOT emotionally dead (they called me that one time).
NT people won't change. AS people won't change. The world would be such a better place if we all understand each other. If NT people FULLY understand our problems. And if we FULLY understand NT people. I know that's impossible. It's just a thought.

RetroGamer87 wrote:

I won't quote you entirely, too long.
I just wanted to say, out of all comments I've read I enjoyed yours most. Not really enjoying, but I can't find the right word for it.
I notice almost all of us try to write full sentences. A clear and literal text.
I hate it when people use abbreviations. I hate it when they use body language. I hate it when they expect us to know things they didn't mention. Why do they do it? Another reason why I like this forum so much.

Anyway, my point is I was deeply intrigued by your story, and I believe you could become a great writer :). It was so sad, but in this case that's a good thing. Is there a possibility to post something like this to the public? It would be good for all of us.
I love the way you write, and I actually think people would enjoy reading more from you.

I can only learn from this. I'm 21 years old, so it's not too late. It need to make an effort to change.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,396
Location: Adelaide, Australia

28 Oct 2014, 11:28 am

Cryptex wrote:
I just wanted to say, out of all comments I've read I enjoyed yours most. Not really enjoying, but I can't find the right word for it.

Thanks man. It wasn't a happy story but I still felt a little better after I got it off of my chest.
Cryptex wrote:
I won't quote you entirely, too long.

Yeah, I know I can can go on for a while :)
Cryptex wrote:
I notice almost all of us try to write full sentences. A clear and literal text.
I hate it when people use abbreviations.

Yeah, is it weird that I punctuate all my text messages :lol:
Cryptex wrote:
I hate it when they use body language. I hate it when they expect us to know things they didn't mention. Why do they do it?

Truly, they don't know any better. They don't know that we don't know that we can't read their body language, in platonic situations and especially in dating and flirting. They don't know because we don't tell them we don't know and I am very much guilty of this. It seems to embaressing for me to tell a date I'm blind to body language so instead of swallowing my pride and telling her, I pretend I know what I'm doing, get it wrong and not only have an unseccful date but in several cases make the girl think I actually dislike her (also it doesn't help that as my friends have pointed out, I sometimes scowl when I don't mean to).
Cryptex wrote:
Anyway, my point is I was deeply intrigued by your story, and I believe you could become a great writer :). It was so sad, but in this case that's a good thing. Is there a possibility to post something like this to the public? It would be good for all of us.
I love the way you write, and I actually think people would enjoy reading more from you.

Well thanks :D I've thought about being a writer. Maybe I should do an English major instead of studying computer engineering like I plan to next year (if the gods be willing). Ah, decisions, I could spend a lifetime picking a field of study but I think it's better to go with something that may not be perfect if it cuts a few years of the decision process. Anyway, how do I know I don't like computer engineering when I haven't tried it yet (though I already like mucking about with computers.

I'm not sure I'd be great at writing fiction (though I enjoy reading it), I don't think of ideas for stories very often. Come to think of it if I think of anymore such ideas I should write them down (brief plot outlines) so I don't forget them like I forgot the last batch of stories I thought up.

Come to think of it my real dream job would be a tech reviewer. Instead of worrying about which smartphone is faster I could focus on the most important thing (ergonomics).

As for posting this in public, I might be willing but I'm not sure where I'd post it. In a sense I already posted it in public. This thread can be viewed by anyone but for NTs this site is hidden by obscurity. Maybe I could get it published in Readers Digest. I don't think my story is the typical aspie story but that's because I don't think there is a typical aspie story.

Anyway I've had a lot of practice at writing. This might sound strange for a guy but I keep a diary (but I call it a log because it sounds more manly (and anything they used on Star Trek must be cool, right?)) Maybe I can have it published on the web when I'm dead (warts and all). A lot of it is very similar to what I just posted but a day by day account (skipping days lately, too busy). If someone out there has the patience of Job they can read it, it's almost two million words of angst, frustration and smartphone comparisons.

Anyway, this exercise really helped me improve both my typing and composition speed. Now that I can rattle off two or three thousand words in an hour college papers seem less daunting than they used to be (yes I know college papers have harder questions than "How was your day?" but it's still good practice for me.
Cryptex wrote:
I can only learn from this. I'm 21 years old, so it's not too late. It need to make an effort to change.

Yep, you can find lessons in everything if you pay attention in life. You're older than some but younger than me. There's still much hope for you. But who knows what the future holds. There may even still be hope for me.
Cryptex wrote:
IIf NT people FULLY understand our problems. And if we FULLY understand NT people. I know that's impossible. It's just a thought.

Yeah, I'd love to understand NT people but my misunderstanding of them is not by choice. And the same for them. Most of the NTs I know couldn't understand me if they wanted to.
Cryptex wrote:
I may be rambling, but it's a difficult subject anyway.

Don't sweat is man, you didn't ramble half as much as I did :lol:


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


WantToHaveALife
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,793
Location: California, United States

29 Oct 2014, 11:45 am

AngelRho wrote:
@WantToHaveALife: I can't speak for everyone, but there's tons of good non-fic out there. I used to rescue my mom's Redbook magazines from the circular file and I absorbed all the love/relationship articles like a sponge. Women and men are NOT all that different when it comes to romantic relationships--we all want the same thing. It's just men's magazines are "masculine" and are all about taking a commanding lead in a relationship. That's not always realistic, and it's just not ME. Women's mags are a lot kinder. They are designed to cater to women's interests. So if you're a man who wants to know what women want, subscribe to Cosmo.

On the more "manly" side, I'd stay away from self-help books aimed at a male audience. Heck, I'd stay away from any relationship self-help book. What I found useful were broader texts like 7 Habits (Stephen Covey), Art of War (Sun Tzu), 48 Laws of Power (?, and not a "self-help" book per se), Art of Deception (a commentary on corporate security, but useful in understanding human psychology. Social engineering works for good guys who honestly need help just as well as it does for con artists and identity thieves), and most recently How to Win Friends and Influence People (Dale Carnegie--public speaking guru. Very dated, but every self-help guy since has been repeating the same advice. Also has an entire section devoted to romantic relationships). None of those are aimed at romantic relationships, btw, but romantic relationships are relationships. Understand human relations as a whole and dating becomes a no-brainer.

My usual dating-for-beginners repartee is ripped straight from Dave Ramsey's "baby-steps" approach to getting rid of debt. It's not that debt has anything directly to do with dating?it's the psychology of the approach. Start small, and over time translate small victories into large ones. That's from the Total Money Makeover book. Covey echoes the importance of small victories in 7 Habits. I'd use the Carnegie stuff with a lot of caution--Carnegie's approach begins with the inherent selfishness of human nature. It's very Ayn Rand. I agree up to a point, but where Randian ideals fail is where human beings make the free-will CHOICE to adopt altruism for themselves. Likewise, Carnegie doesn't go far enough in exploring altruism in his book. He essentially says if you want to get what you want, you have to give others what they want. It's really Golden Rule/Jesus, but it's not framed in the same spirit as the Bible or other more altruistic texts. Read and study Dale Carnegie, but keep a good-sized grain of salt with you when you do it.

And if you're going the self-help route, you need to keep an eye out for that. It all basically boils down to the same things.
ya I'm just wondering what I should do in order to get better at approaching and talking to women, improve m social skills and conversation skills with them in order to get a girlfriend



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,161
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

29 Oct 2014, 3:09 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:
ya I'm just wondering what I should do in order to get better at approaching and talking to women, improve m social skills and conversation skills with them in order to get a girlfriend

Well?for me, at least, most "self-help" books are more entertaining and, at best, "inspirational" or "motivational" than actually practical. These are guys who have a proven track record of making people feel good, and that gift shines forth in their writing. It makes you feel good until you actually go out there and try to use those techniques, and then you feel like a total failure once you discover how much work it really is.

That's why I said what I said about Dale Carnegie. His whole strategy assumes the inherent selfishness of human nature, that the goal of all human interaction is for us to feel important. To make friends and influence people, according to Carnegie, you have to set aside your own interests, i.e. what you can "get from people," and figure out how to give everyone else that you meet what they want.

To get people to do what you want them to do, you have to satisfy they question of "What's in it for me?" In other words, if I'm going to go out with you, what's in it for me? Your goal is to spend more time with her because you think she's interesting and attractive. She's doing research on the mating habits of voles. So you suggest going out to help her feed the voles so she can tell you a little more about what she finds so fascinating about voles.

You like ice skating? Would you believe I've never been ice skating? How about we meet at the rink and you show me a thing or two?

You like astronomy? Wow?when I was a kid I used to want to be an astronaut or an astronomer and count all the stars I could see?but I suck at math, but I still have my old telescope! Hey, aren't the Leonids peaking tomorrow night? I know this great spot? Pick you up at midnight?

OK, the last one isn't exactly great first date material, but it could work if you both had friends who would be interested in getting together for a meteor shower.

The main thing is just putting in the time, getting her to talk about herself, making notes of her likes, and delivering the goods in order to get a date.

The Dale Carnegie stuff isn't about dating specifically, but about making friends and getting people to work with you. The same techniques are applicable towards building relationships with the opposite sex. The last chapter of the book deals with marriage and family relationships and won't really apply unless you're already in a LTR.

Also, I'm only working with a male context since it seems only other men are talking about it. But there's no reason it can't be applicable for women as well. Carnegie's theory is that all human beings are after the same things, so any approach that fulfills those basic desires will be effective regardless of your gender.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 38
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 18,299
Location: I'm right here

29 Oct 2014, 4:12 pm

Personally I didn't have much trouble getting hook-ups or friends with benefits in high school or when I was in my early 20s. Things have gotten trickier outside of school because my circle of friends has virtually disappeared. :cry:



WantToHaveALife
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,793
Location: California, United States

29 Oct 2014, 4:15 pm

AngelRho wrote:
WantToHaveALife wrote:
ya I'm just wondering what I should do in order to get better at approaching and talking to women, improve m social skills and conversation skills with them in order to get a girlfriend

Well?for me, at least, most "self-help" books are more entertaining and, at best, "inspirational" or "motivational" than actually practical. These are guys who have a proven track record of making people feel good, and that gift shines forth in their writing. It makes you feel good until you actually go out there and try to use those techniques, and then you feel like a total failure once you discover how much work it really is.

That's why I said what I said about Dale Carnegie. His whole strategy assumes the inherent selfishness of human nature, that the goal of all human interaction is for us to feel important. To make friends and influence people, according to Carnegie, you have to set aside your own interests, i.e. what you can "get from people," and figure out how to give everyone else that you meet what they want.

To get people to do what you want them to do, you have to satisfy they question of "What's in it for me?" In other words, if I'm going to go out with you, what's in it for me? Your goal is to spend more time with her because you think she's interesting and attractive. She's doing research on the mating habits of voles. So you suggest going out to help her feed the voles so she can tell you a little more about what she finds so fascinating about voles.

You like ice skating? Would you believe I've never been ice skating? How about we meet at the rink and you show me a thing or two?

You like astronomy? Wow?when I was a kid I used to want to be an astronaut or an astronomer and count all the stars I could see?but I suck at math, but I still have my old telescope! Hey, aren't the Leonids peaking tomorrow night? I know this great spot? Pick you up at midnight?

OK, the last one isn't exactly great first date material, but it could work if you both had friends who would be interested in getting together for a meteor shower.

The main thing is just putting in the time, getting her to talk about herself, making notes of her likes, and delivering the goods in order to get a date.

The Dale Carnegie stuff isn't about dating specifically, but about making friends and getting people to work with you. The same techniques are applicable towards building relationships with the opposite sex. The last chapter of the book deals with marriage and family relationships and won't really apply unless you're already in a LTR.

Also, I'm only working with a male context since it seems only other men are talking about it. But there's no reason it can't be applicable for women as well. Carnegie's theory is that all human beings are after the same things, so any approach that fulfills those basic desires will be effective regardless of your gender.
so overall just go out and practice socializing, talking to anyone literally?



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 38
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 18,299
Location: I'm right here

29 Oct 2014, 4:21 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:
so overall just go out and practice socializing, talking to anyone literally?


That seems to be the suggestion. That's what worked for me when I was younger. The better you are talking to members of the appropriate gender the more likely you are at achieving meaningful friendships and other relationships with them.

Think of it like shooting grapeshot instead of a sniper rifle. The sniper rifle might be more precise, but the cannon with grapeshot is bound to hit something. :lol:



WantToHaveALife
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,793
Location: California, United States

29 Oct 2014, 6:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
WantToHaveALife wrote:
so overall just go out and practice socializing, talking to anyone literally?


That seems to be the suggestion. That's what worked for me when I was younger. The better you are talking to members of the appropriate gender the more likely you are at achieving meaningful friendships and other relationships with them.

Think of it like shooting grapeshot instead of a sniper rifle. The sniper rifle might be more precise, but the cannon with grapeshot is bound to hit something. :lol:


ya just wondering if any specific self-help articles on the Internet or books that give you great techniques, go over specifically how to put yourself out there in real social situations so you can practice efficiently



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 38
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 18,299
Location: I'm right here

29 Oct 2014, 7:03 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
WantToHaveALife wrote:
so overall just go out and practice socializing, talking to anyone literally?


That seems to be the suggestion. That's what worked for me when I was younger. The better you are talking to members of the appropriate gender the more likely you are at achieving meaningful friendships and other relationships with them.

Think of it like shooting grapeshot instead of a sniper rifle. The sniper rifle might be more precise, but the cannon with grapeshot is bound to hit something. :lol:


ya just wondering if any specific self-help articles on the Internet or books that give you great techniques, go over specifically how to put yourself out there in real social situations so you can practice efficiently


I don't really know what to say, most of my friends have always been female and when I was more social I always knew a few girls who were close to me.

At this point I'm starting over from scratch.



WantToHaveALife
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,793
Location: California, United States

29 Oct 2014, 8:25 pm

Well there's be an action plan of some sort I can do in order to finally get a girlfriend