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The_Face_of_Boo
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21 Nov 2014, 8:02 am

Jono wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Imo, racial preference is a form of subconscious racism.

But it's not the only s**t in attraction, for example I prefer fit women and that's a subconscious weightism.

There are a lot of -ism things in attraction.


So, if people don't want to date aspies, is that a form of subconscious ableism?


Yes.



Janissy
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21 Nov 2014, 1:57 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
They can reject for whatever reason (ie. like "I never 't date Blacks!" / "I don't date Christians") but I would still see them as discriminatory people.

I had a short relation with a woman who dumped me the moment she knew I am atheist - because "she can't date non-muslims" (ie. and she isn't even a practicing muslim, she even did sexual activities), we were compatible in almost everything else.

Fine, I let it go the moment she did, but don't tell me that I shouldn't think of it a form of religious fanaticism and that's it is not incorrect or not narrow-minded, yes it is.

So yes, I feel it's incorrect to reject people as romantic potentials due to race/religion/appearance, at least me personally don't reject on this basis, but I am aware how socially accepted it is (and it's even encouraged and expected).


You previously compared it to employment (in which certain types of discrimination are not allowed, depending on a country's laws) but underestimating just how much is at stake for people who are looking for a long term relationship or marriage. Unlike an employer, a partner is somebody you will live with, have sex with, possibly have children with and make life decisions with. The only thing at stake in work is how well an employee can do a job. Employers aren't allowed (in the U.S., don't know about all country's laws) to discriminate about things that don't prevent somebody from doing a job. That's an important distinction. Employers are expected to discriminate based on things that negatively impact the job. Employers don't hire the blind to be pilots, the overweight to be horse race jockeys, the ugly to be fashion models etc. And that is how it should be. Discrimination becomes a bad thing when the factor under consideration doesn't impact the job.

So much more is at stake in relationships. I think that people should discriminate based on whatever factors are important to them. If somebody is compatible with you in every way except the one thing that is a deal breaker for them, then you aren't compatible. Employers are allowed to have deal breakers in the hiring process as long as those deal breakers would make it so the person couldn't do the job. If the person could do the job if given accomodations, then U.S. employers are required to give them accomodations (within limits that lawyers parse out). But should potential partners be socially pressured into making accomodations so that they aren't being discriminatory against people who have what would otherwise be deal breakers? (What would those accomodations even be? Going out with an atheist who promises to never get into a religious argument with you?) I say no. People should never be pressured into dating somebody they don't want to date. Discrimination is necessary when it comes to relationships. What that discrimination is based on is up to the individual. But everyone has deal breakers and those deal breakers are a necessary and perfectly ok form of discrimination.



funeralxempire
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21 Nov 2014, 2:45 pm

Janissy wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
They can reject for whatever reason (ie. like "I never 't date Blacks!" / "I don't date Christians") but I would still see them as discriminatory people.

I had a short relation with a woman who dumped me the moment she knew I am atheist - because "she can't date non-muslims" (ie. and she isn't even a practicing muslim, she even did sexual activities), we were compatible in almost everything else.

Fine, I let it go the moment she did, but don't tell me that I shouldn't think of it a form of religious fanaticism and that's it is not incorrect or not narrow-minded, yes it is.

So yes, I feel it's incorrect to reject people as romantic potentials due to race/religion/appearance, at least me personally don't reject on this basis, but I am aware how socially accepted it is (and it's even encouraged and expected).


You previously compared it to employment (in which certain types of discrimination are not allowed, depending on a country's laws) but underestimating just how much is at stake for people who are looking for a long term relationship or marriage. Unlike an employer, a partner is somebody you will live with, have sex with, possibly have children with and make life decisions with. The only thing at stake in work is how well an employee can do a job. Employers aren't allowed (in the U.S., don't know about all country's laws) to discriminate about things that don't prevent somebody from doing a job. That's an important distinction. Employers are expected to discriminate based on things that negatively impact the job. Employers don't hire the blind to be pilots, the overweight to be horse race jockeys, the ugly to be fashion models etc. And that is how it should be. Discrimination becomes a bad thing when the factor under consideration doesn't impact the job.

So much more is at stake in relationships. I think that people should discriminate based on whatever factors are important to them. If somebody is compatible with you in every way except the one thing that is a deal breaker for them, then you aren't compatible. Employers are allowed to have deal breakers in the hiring process as long as those deal breakers would make it so the person couldn't do the job. If the person could do the job if given accomodations, then U.S. employers are required to give them accomodations (within limits that lawyers parse out). But should potential partners be socially pressured into making accomodations so that they aren't being discriminatory against people who have what would otherwise be deal breakers? (What would those accomodations even be? Going out with an atheist who promises to never get into a religious argument with you?) I say no. People should never be pressured into dating somebody they don't want to date. Discrimination is necessary when it comes to relationships. What that discrimination is based on is up to the individual. But everyone has deal breakers and those deal breakers are a necessary and perfectly ok form of discrimination.


Since Janissy just made the argument I intended on using, but worded far-better than I could have said it, I'm just going to quote. :)

I'm not disagreeing that it's "discrimination", but it's a healthy discrimination that we're entitled to. We all practice discrimination all the time (for example buying the red shirt instead of the green one, we discriminated in favour of red). I would argue dating someone you feel little or no attraction to is incorrect, that NOT discriminating against people who you have no desire to be with is far more incorrect than having standards.

Also, if race/religion/appearance aren't "fair" reasons to discriminate in romantic relationships, is gender?


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Cafeaulait
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21 Nov 2014, 3:16 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You see one of them as 'normal' because it's socially correct to reject people as romantic potentials due to race/religion/appearance, while you see the other as unfair because you were raised on this principle of equal hiring. Rejecting to hire people because of these reason was also seen 'normal' ages ago.


I just want to make sure I understand, you feel it's incorrect to reject people as romantic potentials due to race/religion/appearance?

If so, are you instead suggesting that we should be obliged to form romantic relationships with people we find repulsive on the basis of fair treatment? Perhaps we should be entitled to sue people who've spurned our advances on the basis of discrimination, since after all the personal realm and the professional realm are to be treated the same.

While I don't entirely disagree with your observations that I may hold these views due to "how I was raised", I would argue that one's personal life is inherently distinct from one's professional life and that applying the same standards to both would be foolish.




They can reject for whatever reason (ie. like "I never 't date Blacks!" / "I don't date Christians") but I would still see them as discriminatory people.

I had a short relation with a woman who dumped me the moment she knew I am atheist - because "she can't date non-muslims" (ie. and she isn't even a practicing muslim, she even did sexual activities), we were compatible in almost everything else.

Fine, I let it go the moment she did, but don't tell me that I shouldn't think of it a form of religious fanaticism and that's it is not incorrect or not narrow-minded, yes it is.

So yes, I feel it's incorrect to reject people as romantic potentials due to race/religion/appearance, at least me personally don't reject on this basis, but I am aware how socially accepted it is (and it's even encouraged and expected).


Same. I won't date someone with an exclusive racial preference. We wouldn't match intellectually.



kraftiekortie
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21 Nov 2014, 6:07 pm

Hey Café Au Lait: How did the presentation turn out?



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24 Nov 2014, 7:55 am

CynicalWaffle wrote:
anthropic_principle wrote:
CynicalWaffle wrote:
I'm not gonna say what race I am, but I won't date most women my race because they are more preoccupied with whether the guys they are dating/marrying are thugs or not (in other words, THEY ONLY DATE AND MARRY THUGS.). I'm not about that life, so that particular race is cut out for the most part. If I meet a nice lady who's part of my race who isn't my mom or my sister, that's fine, and I will look into getting to know her. But there are very good reasons for not wanting to date other races, or even your same race.


stab in the dark, you're black?


Yeah, I guess the thugs part gave it away huh


uhh no, tan ones are actually more common at least in the U.S.



Klowglas
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24 Nov 2014, 9:24 am

CynicalWaffle wrote:
I'm not gonna say what race I am, but I won't date most women my race because they are more preoccupied with whether the guys they are dating/marrying are thugs or not (in other words, THEY ONLY DATE AND MARRY THUGS.). I'm not about that life, so that particular race is cut out for the most part. If I meet a nice lady who's part of my race who isn't my mom or my sister, that's fine, and I will look into getting to know her. But there are very good reasons for not wanting to date other races, or even your same race.


I think you might be conflating whole nice guy vs. jerks debate as a racial thing due to past experiences... Males from other races are all essentially complaining about the same thing when the 'nice guy vs jerks' debates spout up... Race makes no difference as the same thing can be observed in all cultures and societies.



King_oni
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24 Nov 2014, 10:26 am

I never understood the preference from a dating point of view, but I can see why people would prefer to procreate and keep it within their same race. That's just trying to keep your own genepool in check I guess.

But as far as it goes in terms of dating and having sex for other reason than procreationg, I don't see why race has anything to do with it.

It's interesting though, since I've been looking at it, and considering it for a while since I'm back out there on the hunt for dates again. The topic obviously comes up on these datingsites in terms of preference. The thing is; the area I live in is pretty much dominated by stereotypes based upon cultural background and/or race, which is why I to this day never dated someone other than caucasian. It's not that I'm not open to the notion, but I just never really saw a fit on a personal level there. I've met a few non-caucasian women who differed from the norm here, but I was dating so alas... that was an experience not to be had. (and while I'm up for new experiences I wouldn't say I'd get out of one just for the heck of a new experience, lol)



Cafeaulait
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24 Nov 2014, 10:55 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Hey Café Au Lait: How did the presentation turn out?


Really well. I am finishing with at least an 8.5 (on a scale from 1 to 10).



kraftiekortie
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24 Nov 2014, 11:02 am

I know what you mean....those Presentations were MURDER!

I'm a stutterer--and I was much worse during Presentations.

However, I believe, in the end, that the irritation/exhaustion/lack of sleep, etc. will provide you with the strength to be a fine professional.



Cafeaulait
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24 Nov 2014, 11:56 am

I'm a very good presentor but also extremely perfectionistic and therefore worry excessively before and after presentations.
And yes a slight lack of sleep brings out the best in me. Don't know why. I guess it builds healthy pressure in me.



d20
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24 Nov 2014, 4:05 pm

I find certain [races? nationalities?] more attractive than others.
You don't like that? Neither do I, but it is how it is.

What next? It's dumb to be more attracted to girls with brown hair than blonde?
Dumb to have a preference toward taller, slimmer girls?
Dumb to prefer GIRLS?

Ultimately, we cannot control who we are attracted to.
True, we can put it aside temporarily and agree to a date [or, social meeting of whatever sort] with someone outside of our typical likes, and we might find pure gold.
But it is often the physical attraction that gets the ball rolling, and once again...can't control that!

You did mention friends though, and on that point I agree. It's discriminatory / bullying / etc to not be friends with someone because of their race, hair, disability, without any real REASON [their personality]



The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Nov 2014, 4:20 pm

People who say "I don't date <race/color" always turn out to be somehow racists.

People who say "I don't date <religion/denomination>" always turn out to be indirect fanatics.

and so on...

This how they usually turn out to be.
Such ultimatum statements tell volumes about the person.

Gender doesn't count because sexual orientation is biologically encoded, however I think there's no genetic variation that makes one impossible to be attracted to other races/religions - this is purely influenced by conscious choice.

And no, it doesn't matter if they have friends of certain race/religion - I've personally encountered plenty of people who have outing friends/buddies of different religions but when you scratch them you find fanatics, they even think of them as inferior.



Anna_K
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24 Nov 2014, 5:23 pm

In my opinion, I think that its natural to be attracted more to one race than to another. You can't really control what and who you are attracted to. I am attracted to non-white guys over white guys(I'm white myself) most of the time, and I don't think it makes me a racist. But this guy took it too far:

The original blog:

http://sleeplessinaustin.atxmirrors.info

Interview:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 97377.html


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Cafeaulait
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24 Nov 2014, 5:47 pm

Agreed with Boo. One of the most intelligent posts so far. Didn't know Boo had that much intellectual capacities.
And it has nothing to do with 'natural'. I don't have a preference and there is nothing 'unnatural' about that.



NeueZiel
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24 Nov 2014, 7:38 pm

I admit I have preferences and generally have always preferred a certain "look" because its easier for me to be attracted to what I find familiar.

Really don't like being called a racist because of that but hey whatever.