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Kurgan
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25 May 2015, 11:24 am

I'm by no means an expert, but at the very least, I am in a serious and stable relationship. In this post I'll share some of the stuff that worked for me; none of it will be any PUA or alpha male crap. This is aimed at 20 something involuntary celibate people, since I've been in this place myself.

I'll start with the most important one:

- Not all women or all men are "this and that". There's one common denominator, and that's you. Most women do not like a-holes (a-holes tend to be popular, have access to cigarettes and alcohol, and so on in high school, which gets them laid there), and most men are not brainwashed by magazines and patriarchy into prefering impossible and unnatural standards. Never blame others for your problems; you are not single because you're a nice guy or an opinionated woman

- Complaining about unfair gender roles and so on doesn't get you laid. Dating is unfair, but setting out on a holy crusade to make it more fair isn't going to change anything

- Women do make the first move sometimes, but that doesn't mean that you should lean back and let stuff happen (hint: that way, it's not going to lead to anything). If a woman shows interest, you should act out on it. If you're an aspie and can't read body language (and if the girl is shy or reserved), a good sign would be that she likes a lot of your stuff on Facebook, or contacts you a lot on Facebook

- "Just be yourself" is a terrible advice, and the people giving it to you are humble bragging. Learning basic social skills is not the same as deception or trying to be someone else, and there's nothing wrong with faking confidence for a while until your confidence actually increases. By faking confidence, I do not mean imaginary lat syndrome combined with a cocky attitude, but covering up your insecurities and at the least believing in what you're doing

- Tolerate other people's flaws. If you want a girlfriend or a boyfriend who tolerates your AS, do not instantly write someone of just because they seem clingy, insecure or something like that

- Colleges, universities, hostels, voluntary work, and so on are better places to meet significant others than bars. Common interests are the best ice breakers

- Find ways to compensate for your own flaws. If you do not have many friends, do not go to parties, and so on, compensate for it by getting a good body, dressing well, having interesting hobbies, and so on (this is the big elephant in the room no life coach is willing to touch)

- Cure yourself of "oneitis". There are always other women and other men

- A woman doesn't owe you anything just because you act nice to her, and a man doesn't owe you a relationship just because you sleep with him. Get over it and move on

- If you're a virgin and a man, do not tell anyone this. It's better to have awkward sex and spoil your future chances with that person than it is to be rejected because of your inexperience by every person in the future. Moreover, your first time will not be any more important than your second, 12th or 3256th time

- AS is not a death sentence for dating. A lot of both women and men love people who've overcome disabilities and made something of themselves (Woody Allen has been in bed with more women than most people could ever dream of)

Finally:

- These are just starting tips. You'll have to discover for yourself what works for you and what doesn't. You're not going to go from incel to getting successful dates in a few days


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Stargazer43
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25 May 2015, 11:49 am

Kurgan wrote:
- "Just be yourself" is a terrible advice, and the people giving it to you are humble bragging. Learning basic social skills is not the same as deception or trying to be someone else, and there's nothing wrong with faking confidence for a while until your confidence actually increases. By faking confidence, I do not mean imaginary lat syndrome combined with a cocky attitude, but covering up your insecurities and at the least believing in what you're doing

- Tolerate other people's flaws. If you want a girlfriend or a boyfriend who tolerates your AS, do not instantly write someone of just because they seem clingy, insecure or something like that

- Find ways to compensate for your own flaws. If you do not have many friends, do not go to parties, and so on, compensate for it by getting a good body, dressing well, having interesting hobbies, and so on (this is the big elephant in the room no life coach is willing to touch)


I think that these three tips are some of the best. Nothing annoys me more than when people say "just be yourself, and you'll find someone when you least expect it". I think that that's a very naive perspective that may work for some people, but not for those of us who struggle in this area.

Regarding flaws: I personally think that a successful relationship is not based on finding the "perfect partner", but finding a partner whose flaws you both know and accept. We're all flawed in one way or another, so I think it's important to recognize that early on in both yourself and your partner.



yellowtamarin
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25 May 2015, 9:14 pm

Stargazer43 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
- "Just be yourself" is a terrible advice, and the people giving it to you are humble bragging. Learning basic social skills is not the same as deception or trying to be someone else, and there's nothing wrong with faking confidence for a while until your confidence actually increases. By faking confidence, I do not mean imaginary lat syndrome combined with a cocky attitude, but covering up your insecurities and at the least believing in what you're doing

- Tolerate other people's flaws. If you want a girlfriend or a boyfriend who tolerates your AS, do not instantly write someone of just because they seem clingy, insecure or something like that

- Find ways to compensate for your own flaws. If you do not have many friends, do not go to parties, and so on, compensate for it by getting a good body, dressing well, having interesting hobbies, and so on (this is the big elephant in the room no life coach is willing to touch)


I think that these three tips are some of the best. Nothing annoys me more than when people say "just be yourself, and you'll find someone when you least expect it". I think that that's a very naive perspective that may work for some people, but not for those of us who struggle in this area.

Regarding flaws: I personally think that a successful relationship is not based on finding the "perfect partner", but finding a partner whose flaws you both know and accept. We're all flawed in one way or another, so I think it's important to recognize that early on in both yourself and your partner.

Oh yes, there's quite a difference between "just be your current self and give up on improvement" and "try to be the best version of yourself that you can be".

IMO to be yourself means to not do things that make you feel like you are going against your vision of who you are, your values, the things you consider important, etc. etc. You can be yourself and strive to learn new skills that make you more desirable, for sure.



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26 May 2015, 1:57 am

Be your BEST self.

Bring out the best in yourself. Find your good/best qualities and aim for improving and strengthening them so that they are the most important parts of your personality.



sly279
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26 May 2015, 3:19 am

well doing nothing isn't going to change how unfair dating is either.

Imaging if gays, blacks, women, the founding fathers, etc had all followd that advice.
dating can be more fair and not trying to change it will make sure it stays unfair.
ranting on dating sites wont' do it though and I suppose its more in women's hands to change it then mens. still I think it needs to change is it is just a a super slow pace. I think kids 100 years from now will have a more balanced dating. or they'll be assigned partners based on the government's analysis of efficiency. either way it'll be easier.



goldfish21
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26 May 2015, 10:01 pm

sly279 wrote:
well doing nothing isn't going to change how unfair dating is either.

Imaging if gays, blacks, women, the founding fathers, etc had all followd that advice.
dating can be more fair and not trying to change it will make sure it stays unfair.
ranting on dating sites wont' do it though and I suppose its more in women's hands to change it then mens. still I think it needs to change is it is just a a super slow pace. I think kids 100 years from now will have a more balanced dating. or they'll be assigned partners based on the government's analysis of efficiency. either way it'll be easier.


What do you think is unfair about dating?

What do you think needs to change about it?

As for your last thought.. I mean, there are cultures that do arranged marriages and such - but even that is a competitive process where people are assessed by all the same metrics as dating.. appearance, social status, occupation, financial position, friends/family/association, education etc etc etc. I really don't think it's realistic to expect dating/mating to deviate from the natural norm of competition & the survival of the fittest. Ever.


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Densaugeo
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27 May 2015, 12:17 am

goldfish21 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
well doing nothing isn't going to change how unfair dating is either.

Imaging if gays, blacks, women, the founding fathers, etc had all followd that advice.
dating can be more fair and not trying to change it will make sure it stays unfair.
ranting on dating sites wont' do it though and I suppose its more in women's hands to change it then mens. still I think it needs to change is it is just a a super slow pace. I think kids 100 years from now will have a more balanced dating. or they'll be assigned partners based on the government's analysis of efficiency. either way it'll be easier.


What do you think is unfair about dating?

What do you think needs to change about it?

As for your last thought.. I mean, there are cultures that do arranged marriages and such - but even that is a competitive process where people are assessed by all the same metrics as dating.. appearance, social status, occupation, financial position, friends/family/association, education etc etc etc. I really don't think it's realistic to expect dating/mating to deviate from the natural norm of competition & the survival of the fittest. Ever.


Pretty much this. Dating, courtship, and marriage emerged after the agricultural revolution as a way to keep track whose kids inherited from who. The unfairness is a feature, not a bug.



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27 May 2015, 12:47 am

Yeah, I agree it's pretty pointless to try and make dating "fair".

However, the fact of the matter is that a lot of men are being excluded from the mating process altogether simply because they can't "measure up". Now, truth to be told, this is not exactly a new thing, it's been happening for a long time now. But ever since the female emancipation, the number of men finding themselves in this situation has been rising non-stop. Simply put, the bar for men has been set too high, and they keep raising it higher and higher every day.

This is a problem because, as I mentioned in the other thread, happiness for most men comes from women and sex. When most men realize that these two things just aren't accessible to them, they become depressed and lethargic, essentially a burden on society. And some will even lash out violently. Don't think that a large group of sexually frustrated men doesn't have the power to destroy a civilization. In fact, it's what destroyed most civilizations throughout History.



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27 May 2015, 1:08 am

While there do appear to be a lot more excluded men today, I don't know if that's because of more exclusion or because it's more visible. Places like this forum, for example, didn't exist at all 30 years ago.

While there has been an emancipation movement to free women from gendered expectations, there hasn't been a similar one for men - not surprising, since a few decades ago women had far more incentive for such a movement.

Dating may be inherently unfair, and even inherently inaccessible to a number of people, but I believe there is new space to experiment with other options. With the improvements in communications and in simulation of people (both physically and psychologically) many new and unpredictable ideas are set to appear.



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27 May 2015, 2:34 am

I don't buy this bs for a second.

We have a record number of humans on the planet. That means there's been a whole lot of procreation going on... which has likely been preceded, or accompanied by, record numbers of dates.


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Gauldoth
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27 May 2015, 3:13 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I don't buy this bs for a second.

We have a record number of humans on the planet. That means there's been a whole lot of procreation going on... which has likely been preceded, or accompanied by, record numbers of dates.


My answer to that is simply this: Genghis Khan.

There, no more need be said.



Densaugeo
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27 May 2015, 9:31 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I don't buy this bs for a second.

We have a record number of humans on the planet. That means there's been a whole lot of procreation going on... which has likely been preceded, or accompanied by, record numbers of dates.


There's also a record amount of money being created. Doesn't mean it's available to everyone (or in the case of new money, even most people).



goldfish21
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27 May 2015, 11:53 am

Densaugeo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I don't buy this bs for a second.

We have a record number of humans on the planet. That means there's been a whole lot of procreation going on... which has likely been preceded, or accompanied by, record numbers of dates.


There's also a record amount of money being created. Doesn't mean it's available to everyone (or in the case of new money, even most people).


It's true, wealth is concentrated amongst the vital few vs. trivial many - ie Pareto's Law.

But sex? It seems that it's the poor masses having more babies than any other socio-economic class, which would mean that the vast majority of people are getting laid vs. very few people having all the sex.

Or are you implying that very few men are slaying all the ladies out there? Sure, that's always been the case that some guys do a lot of girls... but I just don't buy that it's the very few studs who are making all of these babies.

It's kind of like money, though.. just because one guy gets laid a lot (or makes a lot of money) doesn't mean another guy can't get laid. (or can't make money) ie it's very easy for me to get laid (I'm gay, it's WAY easier for us than hetero guys by far) but that doesn't mean that it takes away from other gay guys chances of getting laid. I don't make tons of money, but I earn an income, too.. and that doesn't prevent anyone else from earning an income.


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27 May 2015, 12:54 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
But sex? It seems that it's the poor masses having more babies than any other socio-economic class, which would mean that the vast majority of people are getting laid vs. very few people having all the sex.


Or that a small group of men are having lots of sex with all the women. That seems like the more likely situation because studies that humans today are descended from more than twice as many females as they are males.

Look, I'm not opposed to having gay people chiming in their thoughts on heterossexual relationships (or vice-versa). I mean, Stephen Fry's piece on how women simply aren't interested in sex is one of the best I've read in a long, long time. But since you guys never learn the intricacies of heterossexual relationships through personal experience, you should at least take the time to observe how heterossexual relationships actually work before you decide to speak out about them.



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27 May 2015, 1:14 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
it's very easy for me to get laid (I'm gay, it's WAY easier for us than hetero guys by far) but that doesn't mean that it takes away from other gay guys chances of getting laid. I don't make tons of money, but I earn an income, too.. and that doesn't prevent anyone else from earning an income.


Of course, when you are getting laid you are getting another guy laid too. In heterosexual dating, a guy getting laid usually does mean another guy can't. The same is even more true for anyone seeking a long-term monogamous relationship.

I'd agree that the people with access to sex aren't always the same as the people with access to money, and that sex is more widely distributed...but there are still some who cannot. For example, I am bi, which would normally make it easy for me to find another guy. However, I grew up in an extremely conservative church and spent quite a few nights laying awake worrying about going to hell.



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27 May 2015, 7:26 pm

Gauldoth wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
But sex? It seems that it's the poor masses having more babies than any other socio-economic class, which would mean that the vast majority of people are getting laid vs. very few people having all the sex.


Or that a small group of men are having lots of sex with all the women. That seems like the more likely situation because studies that humans today are descended from more than twice as many females as they are males.

Look, I'm not opposed to having gay people chiming in their thoughts on heterossexual relationships (or vice-versa). I mean, Stephen Fry's piece on how women simply aren't interested in sex is one of the best I've read in a long, long time. But since you guys never learn the intricacies of heterossexual relationships through personal experience, you should at least take the time to observe how heterossexual relationships actually work before you decide to speak out about them.


Interesting about the genetic variation thing. Makes sense that Alpha males are fathering more kids with more women. That's pretty much the way it is with all animal species.

:lol: It may surprise you to hear that I was born & raised by a heterosexual couple and have had a lifetime to observe heterosexual relations. :lol: I've also been with a handful of girls over my lifetime, too. I'm not completely ignorant of what it takes to get a girl to sleep with you. :roll: Been there, done that several times. But I do acknowledge that it is many times easier for a gay guy to get a gay guy to sleep with him - I mean, think about it.. horny guy + horny guy & no feelings involved = sex happens pretty easily for those that want it.


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