Aggressive Younger Woman - Early 80s

Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 

MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,224
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

29 Nov 2015, 12:20 pm

When I was around 30 years old, I occasionally dated a young woman more than 6 years younger (she had just graduated from college when I first met her). About a year after the event described here, I was officially in a relationship with her for several months however that was later. I am wondering how younger people today might feel about this story in light of today's public dialog concerning consent and feminism in general.

So on this particular occasion, I stopped by this young lady's apartment (I forget the exact pretext for the visit but I believe she was expecting me at that time). She invited me in and led me to her bedroom where she had apparently been doing sit-ups or similar exercise. She continued to do sit-ups for a short time while we talked, then was apparently finished with the sit-ups, at which point she basically grabbed me and dragged me down onto her bed where she began passionately tongue-kissing me and making out with me. Of course I was fully cooperative, but it was nevertheless entirely unexpected. To clarify, she and I had been on a couple of dates and been physically affectionate, but we weren't actively dating at the time (nor was I dating anyone else). Further information: in the short run, she seemed to lose interest in dating me almost immediately, although she and I were in a relationship for a few months beginning about a year later (and in which the level of intimacy rose higher than tongue kissing).

My question is, would her behavior be considered inappropriate today? I can sincerely testify that I wasn't the least bit bothered, upset, threatened, or offended at the time, just (pleasantly) surprised! And what can we conclude from this about the direction our society has taken in 30+ years?

To clarify, I should probably provide a bit more information. When I met her, we were coworkers and I was not especially attracted to her, and frankly thought she was too young (both in fact and in the impression she made) but she apparently told somebody she wanted to go out with me so they arranged a date. However once exposed to her undisguised expressions of physical attraction to me, I soon became interested. The physical nature of her attraction to me was impossible for me to resist.

Sorry one more point. It seems to me that her behavior could have easily led to date-rape had it been directed at the wrong person. Can any of the females on this forum imagine themselves doing what I described? For the guys, has anything like this ever happened to you?


_________________
My WP story


CryingTears15
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 341

29 Nov 2015, 12:42 pm

I don't know if she would have backed off, I hope so, but what an unsettling experience for one who didn't want such things! I would not have done that/allowed that to happen to me. Aggressive is one thing, assault is another.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

29 Nov 2015, 3:20 pm

Similar situations happened to me.

I welcomed them.

This was normal stuff then.



em_tsuj
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,786

29 Nov 2015, 3:27 pm

Yes except for the age difference part.



Outrider
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,007
Location: Australia

30 Nov 2015, 12:40 am

What level of relationship was defined between you both at the time?

No, you weren't in an official relationship, but you said you had both been on a few dates and were already 'physically affectionate'.

Are you trying to say you had been on a few dates with her in the past but assumed it was mutually agreed you would be just friends, or trying to say you just started dating her but didn't officially agree to a relationship yet?

If it's the second one, then I'd say things were very undefined and she felt she was in a relationship, even if you hadn't talked exclusivity just yet.

And, if it's the second one, I would also say, even in this modern age, it's actually quite normal/acceptable.

There is a certain level of 'implied consent' among NT society.

If I went on three or more dates with a nice girl and she went in for a kiss, even if we didn't agree to a relationship yet, I wouldn't find it inappropriate or wrong.

It's a spontaneous, natural way to communicate what you want out of the as yet undefined relationship. Going in for a kiss after 3 good dates may be another way of communicating "Yes, I've enjoyed my time getting to know you, let's talk exlcusivity."

It might seem wrong or inappropriate to us as aspies due to possibly not enjoy surprise affection like that and preferring open and honest communication though, so I can see where you're coming from.

But, if it's the first one, then yes it is inappropriate if it was explicity agreed on you would both be just friends.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

30 Nov 2015, 1:10 am

Six years is not a significant age difference when both partners are adults.

The actions are inappropriate only if there is a lack of consent from either party.



MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,224
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

30 Nov 2015, 9:00 pm

Outrider wrote:
What level of relationship was defined between you both at the time?

No, you weren't in an official relationship, but you said you had both been on a few dates and were already 'physically affectionate'.

Are you trying to say you had been on a few dates with her in the past but assumed it was mutually agreed you would be just friends, or trying to say you just started dating her but didn't officially agree to a relationship yet?...
It's hard to remember exactly from so long ago, but although I had been on some dates with her, it feels as though I had been friendzoned at the time. Please understand that previous "physical affection" had been limited to high-school dance style "making out".

I just know that I had no expectation of anything romantic so to speak. I think I was there to pick something up or drop something off for reasons I can't recall. It wasn't just to hang out. The reason I posted about this was just how she initiated the physical encounter; she simply pulled me onto the bed and started making out very passionately, with no prior warning. To take a different perspective, had the gender roles been reversed, in a modern college setting, the guy could have gotten into trouble for not having gotten some kind of consent, even there was not what I would consider physical aggression involved (I wasn't at risk of being physically harmed or forced to do something against my will).

I might as well describe what happened later. We somehow agreed that I would come back to her apartment in the near future where she would cook me dinner for my birthday. I went for the dinner in question, which she served and we ate, then I made a move to be affectionate and she told me that she wasn't in "that type of mood".

I don't remember what sort of contact we had between that time and the time, more than a year later, that she called me and said she was aware that she had been less than nice to me in the past but wanted to see me again. Then we officially dated for a few months. There is more to tell but but I doubt it's interesting to anybody but me.

@CryingTears15 see above. There was no physical coercion involved just extremely forward and unexpected behavior of an arguably sexual nature.

@kraftiekortie I certainly hope such things are still possible nowadays.


_________________
My WP story


Outrider
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,007
Location: Australia

30 Nov 2015, 10:58 pm

Hm well then it is a bit unclear then.

If you were friends hanging out and then had a passionate make-out, you probably thought it was a one-time thing and assumed you were 'friendzoned' due to her behavior afterwards.

However, when she invited you over to cook dinner for your birthday, the way she said it makes me unsure if she did see you as a friend or thought you too had a 'thing'.

She didn't actually say it in a way that communicates you too are only friends like "No! What are you doing??" kind of way (which means the concept of you too kissing/being affectionate would have been foreign, odd or wrong to her), but just "I'm not feeling it right now."

If I was just friends with a girl, that is how most males and females feel about 'just friend' of the opposite sex - "What? Kiss them? We're just friends, that idea sounds strange to me/I would never think to do that!' etc.

Usually when in a relationship, if they're not in the mood the way to say it is "I'm not in the mood for that right now/I'm not ready for that just yet/etc."

If a female friend tried to be affectionate with me I certainly wouldn't say 'No thanks, not now.' that's supposed to imply we have something more?

Anyway, you're right, sir, I'm comparing two different things that aren't the same.

There is a difference between a light kiss or hug or other sign of affection when things are going well and all signs point to 'yes, go for it!' and forciing someone on the bed for a heavy make-out session completely out of the blue.

EDIT: Oh, sorry! I thought the dinner and birthday happened second, not first.

But even so perhaps you mistakenly thought she only saw you as a friend when she wanted something more (maybe not even a strong, long-term relationship but something of a friend with benefit)



hmk66
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Posts: 408

01 Dec 2015, 1:07 am

Exchange the genders and it is rape (a man giving an unexpected French kiss to a woman).

OTOH, I would have liked that if an attractive woman attacked me with a passionate kiss.



MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,224
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

01 Dec 2015, 7:16 am

Outrider wrote:
...EDIT: Oh, sorry! I thought the dinner and birthday happened second, not first....
The birthday dinner did happen second, a week or so later.

Outrider wrote:
...But even so perhaps you mistakenly thought she only saw you as a friend when she wanted something more (maybe not even a strong, long-term relationship but something of a friend with benefit)
It's complicated but it did develop much later into a brief FWB situation.


_________________
My WP story


alex
Developer
Developer

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,214
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

01 Dec 2015, 3:05 pm

Definitely not a problem to date younger (or older for that matter). I've dated girls up to 10 years younger. If you two have a meaningful connection, go for it. Although in your case, it sounds like the girl lost interest so not sure why you're worried about this one in particular.


_________________
I'm Alex Plank, the founder of Wrong Planet. Follow me (Alex Plank) on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/alexplank.bsky.social


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,224
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

01 Dec 2015, 9:15 pm

alex wrote:
Definitely not a problem to date younger (or older for that matter). I've dated girls up to 10 years younger. If you two have a meaningful connection, go for it. Although in your case, it sounds like the girl lost interest so not sure why you're worried about this one in particular.
Uh I have been married to the same woman (not the one discussed here) for 30 years. That's what the "Early 80s" in the subject line refers to, because that's when these events took place.


_________________
My WP story


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

02 Dec 2015, 7:52 am

In 1980, at the age of 19, I made love to a 38-year-old woman who was gay when sober, yet aggressively hetero when drunk.

I fell for this woman because she was a poetess, while I was a poet.

It wasn't the best--nor was it the worst--situation for me. I did learn a few lessons.



mistersprinkles
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 182
Location: Toronto Canada

04 Dec 2015, 3:48 pm

Society is flushing itself down the toilet, man. What a ridiculous thread. 8O