Why is attraction so nonsensical

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The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Mar 2017, 2:43 pm

314pe wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
314pe wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ This conversation is the result of gender differences.

But this topic is very useful for us aspies. Now you can see that for most people, it's very important how they "feel" about you. If you seem odd or unusual, for example, then you have no chances. Your character won't matter if you won't trigger this initial attraction.


So would you go out with someone you're not attracted to? And why?

No I would not, but the difference is that I can't be attracted if it doesn't make sense. I can only be attracted to people I'm compatible with. If the other person shows no interest in me or if I don't see us together in the future then I can't be attracted to them. Does it make any sense to you?



I am the exact same way, if it doesn't make sense to me, if for example; she is way more attractive than me or out of my league, or I can't meet her often (ie. distance) - I simply wouldn't be attracted to her.



Jacoby
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29 Mar 2017, 3:20 pm

I dunno, it only really seems nonsensical from the female point of view and I think that is simply because a lot of women don't know what they really want and aren't totally honest with themselves with what they actually find attractive. What is attractive to a guy I think is pretty straight forward and not akin to finding a needle in a haystack at all but it seems like what OP wants is literal love at first sight from the perfect person. What do you want out of a relationship, what do you find attractive, what are the must haves and must nots? I think if you can answer these questions honestly then it wouldn't seem so nonsensical in my opinion.



Alliekit
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29 Mar 2017, 3:22 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
rdos wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I've even known people be so attracted to each other that they got married and then realised that they were not compatible.


That only shows how useless attraction is for forming good relationships. Besides, physical attractiveness change with age, so if you only rely on that, separation is a given.


That's pretty much my original point. Attraction feels so good, but it's not a good indicator of who is a good match for us most of the time. It's weird. It's a great feeling, but often misleading and you have to combat it with common sense or you'll end up making a mistake.

A person is really lucky if they find someone who they are not only physically attracted to, but also spiritually and mentally attracted to. Like Sweetleaf. She hit the jackpot. I know other people in her shoes and they are happy too.

Attraction isn't all bad. It's just misleading and frustrating on its own if there is nothing more substantial between us and the other person.


Sweetleaf used online dating.


What's your point? Attraction isn't just physical.



rdos
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30 Mar 2017, 12:11 am

Alliekit wrote:
What's your point? Attraction isn't just physical.


I think it is. When people talk about other kinds of attraction, it really is not attraction, but something else, so another word should be used for it.



rdos
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30 Mar 2017, 1:20 am

Jacoby wrote:
I dunno, it only really seems nonsensical from the female point of view and I think that is simply because a lot of women don't know what they really want and aren't totally honest with themselves with what they actually find attractive. What is attractive to a guy I think is pretty straight forward and not akin to finding a needle in a haystack at all but it seems like what OP wants is literal love at first sight from the perfect person. What do you want out of a relationship, what do you find attractive, what are the must haves and must nots? I think if you can answer these questions honestly then it wouldn't seem so nonsensical in my opinion.


Male attraction is pretty stereotypical and different males seems to rate female attractivity about the same. That makes the whole concept pretty much unusable for partner selection, except for the top males. Thus, we expect that attractivity doesn't really play any significant role for the majority of males. They need to use other selection criteria than attractivity if they expect to succeed with getting a partner.



rdos
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30 Mar 2017, 1:37 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I am the exact same way, if it doesn't make sense to me, if for example; she is way more attractive than me or out of my league, or I can't meet her often (ie. distance) - I simply wouldn't be attracted to her.


I don't think that is attraction in the typical sense. I am even more extreme. If a girl doesn't want to play the eye contact game with me, then I'm not interested (I use interest rather than attracted because it seems to be more accurate). If she participates, it really doesn't matter if she is out of my league or not, I'd still find her interesting. OTOH, I do feel (sexual) attraction to very attractive women, but that's all. I have no interest in interacting with them unless they show interest in me.



hurtloam
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30 Mar 2017, 1:44 am

Jacoby wrote:
I dunno, it only really seems nonsensical from the female point of view and I think that is simply because a lot of women don't know what they really want and aren't totally honest with themselves with what they actually find attractive. What is attractive to a guy I think is pretty straight forward and not akin to finding a needle in a haystack at all but it seems like what OP wants is literal love at first sight from the perfect person. What do you want out of a relationship, what do you find attractive, what are the must haves and must nots? I think if you can answer these questions honestly then it wouldn't seem so nonsensical in my opinion.


Lol. Do you even read my posts. I don't believe in love at first sight and I mentioned further up about how people can grow on you.



The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Mar 2017, 1:51 am

Alliekit wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
rdos wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I've even known people be so attracted to each other that they got married and then realised that they were not compatible.


That only shows how useless attraction is for forming good relationships. Besides, physical attractiveness change with age, so if you only rely on that, separation is a given.


That's pretty much my original point. Attraction feels so good, but it's not a good indicator of who is a good match for us most of the time. It's weird. It's a great feeling, but often misleading and you have to combat it with common sense or you'll end up making a mistake.

A person is really lucky if they find someone who they are not only physically attracted to, but also spiritually and mentally attracted to. Like Sweetleaf. She hit the jackpot. I know other people in her shoes and they are happy too.

Attraction isn't all bad. It's just misleading and frustrating on its own if there is nothing more substantial between us and the other person.


Sweetleaf used online dating.


What's your point? Attraction isn't just physical.


My point that her slot machine had way more '7s' than the one hurtloam is relying on.



The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Mar 2017, 2:00 am

NorthWind wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
314pe wrote:
I'm a rational adult. I can certainly control myself and I can choose what's best for me.

Right, and why would it be more difficult to choose if it were lust and not love? Are rational adults more able to control their emotions than their sex drive?

Also, attraction is a feeling, not an action. So even if you feel attraction and know the other person isn't good for you - no matter what feelings are involved, love, lust, whatever, you could still decide not to get into a relationship with them. What you can't do however, is choose to feel attracted to someone, you don't feel anything for - that would merely be pretence and a relationship for the sake of social status, easy access to sex, other advantages.


You may be attracted to several persons, but you somehow decide who to love, really - by choosing to talk to him/her and spend time with him/her the most...etc.




I've once been in love/ felt that kind of love for someone. I got to know him in a more natural way and not via online dating or anything like that. Thus I didn't choose to interact with him because I was attracted to him. I was already interacting with him before I got attracted to him and to not interact with him I'd have needed to intentionally avoid him. The situation didn't make intentionally avoiding without being impolite particularly easy.
Yes, he wasn't the only one I ever felt attracted to but no matter how much time I'd have spent with most of the others, I don't think I'd actually have fallen in love with most of them. It simply was a different kind of attraction.
And sure, as long as it is just the beginning of being attracted to someone it isn't emotionally difficult to choose not to interact with them. Yet, for me it's still a lot more easy to forget about the initial attraction and ignore it if it's purely physical attraction than if I actually like the other person.
But it's true, since falling in love takes time and you need to get to know the other person you can choose whether you let yourself fall in love with someone by interacting with them or not - if you can easily choose not to interact with them.

Still, since attraction due to lust is the easiest to ignore, attraction due to infatuation is a little less easy to ignore and attraction that already turned into love/being in love can't just be switched off (although it of course can be avoided to act on it) I really absolutely don't agree with 314pe.



The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
A poem by Ibn al-Farid (13th-century) - translation below video.



أخفيت حبكم فأخفاني أسى
I hid my love inside me until depression shadowed me (has taken over me).

حتى لعمري كدت عني أختفي
I was about to disappear from the world.

و كتمته عني فلو أبديته
I suppressed this love inside me even from myself

لوجدته أخفى من اللطف الخفي
If shown, will see a nice hidden cool breeze (figurative, hard to translate)

و لقد أقول لمن تحرش بالهوى
say to those who blame me for falling in love, telling me to turn it off.

عرضت نفسك للبلى فاستهدف
you took so long blaming me, telling me that I brought it to myself.

أنت القتيل بأي من أحببته
telling me it will destroy you, because of the way I love.

فاختر لنفسك في الهوى من تصطفي
قل للعذول أطلت لومي طامعا
so try to stop blaming me and have the taste of love (go experience love); then come and try to blame me if you can!

أن الملام عن الهوى مستوقفي
دع عنك تعنيفي و ذق طعم الهوى

Do not try to stop me
Until you taste the taste of love (until you experience falling in love)

فإذا عشقت فبعد ذلك عنف
If you have experienced the love
Then you can try to stop me and blame me

و إن اكتفى غيري بطيف خياله
If the others are satisfied to meet love just in fantasy

فأنا الذي بوصاله لا أكتفي
To meet my love for real is never enough, I can't get enough from seeing him and communicating/bonding with him




Sweetleaf
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30 Mar 2017, 3:14 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
rdos wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I've even known people be so attracted to each other that they got married and then realised that they were not compatible.


That only shows how useless attraction is for forming good relationships. Besides, physical attractiveness change with age, so if you only rely on that, separation is a given.


That's pretty much my original point. Attraction feels so good, but it's not a good indicator of who is a good match for us most of the time. It's weird. It's a great feeling, but often misleading and you have to combat it with common sense or you'll end up making a mistake.

A person is really lucky if they find someone who they are not only physically attracted to, but also spiritually and mentally attracted to. Like Sweetleaf. She hit the jackpot. I know other people in her shoes and they are happy too.

Attraction isn't all bad. It's just misleading and frustrating on its own if there is nothing more substantial between us and the other person.


Sweetleaf used online dating.


What's your point? Attraction isn't just physical.


My point that her slot machine had way more '7s' than the one hurtloam is relying on.


I don't really know what that means...what 'slot machine'?...Also I've never had a number system for rating attractiveness, that sort of thing has always seemed sort of silly to me.



The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Mar 2017, 4:54 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
rdos wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I've even known people be so attracted to each other that they got married and then realised that they were not compatible.


That only shows how useless attraction is for forming good relationships. Besides, physical attractiveness change with age, so if you only rely on that, separation is a given.


That's pretty much my original point. Attraction feels so good, but it's not a good indicator of who is a good match for us most of the time. It's weird. It's a great feeling, but often misleading and you have to combat it with common sense or you'll end up making a mistake.

A person is really lucky if they find someone who they are not only physically attracted to, but also spiritually and mentally attracted to. Like Sweetleaf. She hit the jackpot. I know other people in her shoes and they are happy too.

Attraction isn't all bad. It's just misleading and frustrating on its own if there is nothing more substantial between us and the other person.


Sweetleaf used online dating.


What's your point? Attraction isn't just physical.


My point that her slot machine had way more '7s' than the one hurtloam is relying on.


I don't really know what that means...what 'slot machine'?...Also I've never had a number system for rating attractiveness, that sort of thing has always seemed sort of silly to me.


You need to try the casino once, just for the sake of fun.



hurtloam
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30 Mar 2017, 5:54 am

Every one seems to have a different opinion on this. It's very interesting.

If there's any lurkers we'd enjoy your input too.



Jacoby
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30 Mar 2017, 11:35 am

hurtloam wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I dunno, it only really seems nonsensical from the female point of view and I think that is simply because a lot of women don't know what they really want and aren't totally honest with themselves with what they actually find attractive. What is attractive to a guy I think is pretty straight forward and not akin to finding a needle in a haystack at all but it seems like what OP wants is literal love at first sight from the perfect person. What do you want out of a relationship, what do you find attractive, what are the must haves and must nots? I think if you can answer these questions honestly then it wouldn't seem so nonsensical in my opinion.


Lol. Do you even read my posts. I don't believe in love at first sight and I mentioned further up about how people can grow on you.


I read things in a haze sometimes, my point was mostly that attraction is pretty simple for guys but I guess the question being asked is why doesn't attraction correlate with long term compatibility which I think can just be for some people not being honest with oneself about what they find attractive or knowing what they want they want out of a relationship. I get the impression that women find guys far less attractive than the other way around in general so I think the question is hard for me to grasp from that vantage point, I think there is a lot of unrealistic expectations all around and too much of a commodified "what can you do for me now" mindset when it in comes to relationships. That's what I get out of the negative connotation 'settling' seems to carry, the idea that you can get more out of the equation and win more in the relationship. Also, I don't think not believing in love at first sight doesn't mean that isn't something someone still might subconsciously desires. What do you actually want out of a relationship?

The rigidity we have on the spectrum makes it more difficult to reciprocate and adapt as is needed in a successful relationship, those are the deficits I think I probably should really work and focus on if I were in a relationship. That's how people can grow together as a couple, if you struggle with that then you will probably struggle in your relationship I would imagne. I'm screwed up in other ways so there is work to be done on myself if I am going to be a truly independent person, anxiety is something that I can know is completely irrational but still experience it in the worst mental and physical way so I am kind of a slave to that condition unfortunately but I digress from talking about myself since the point being I get that it's all just easier said than done. What the hell do I know about long-term compatibility anyways? Probably the wrong guy to ask... :oops:



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30 Mar 2017, 3:01 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You need to try the casino once, just for the sake of fun.


I have been once, not particularly my kind of fun and only went because a friend paid for me to...the free drinks were nice I suppose. Either way I wouldn't compare looking for a relationship to slot machines.



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30 Mar 2017, 3:16 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Sweetleaf used online dating.


What's your point? Attraction isn't just physical.


My point that her slot machine had way more '7s' than the one hurtloam is relying on.


I don't really know what that means...what 'slot machine'?...Also I've never had a number system for rating attractiveness, that sort of thing has always seemed sort of silly to me.


The slot machine gives out a jackpot payment if you are lucky enough to get a row of 7s
Image

I thought it was quite a clever illustration taking my use of the term jackpot and extending the analogy.



hurtloam
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30 Mar 2017, 3:25 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I read things in a haze sometimes, my point was mostly that attraction is pretty simple for guys but I guess the question being asked is why doesn't attraction correlate with long term compatibility which I think can just be for some people not being honest with oneself about what they find attractive or knowing what they want they want out of a relationship. I get the impression that women find guys far less attractive than the other way around in general so I think the question is hard for me to grasp from that vantage point, I think there is a lot of unrealistic expectations all around and too much of a commodified "what can you do for me now" mindset when it in comes to relationships. That's what I get out of the negative connotation 'settling' seems to carry, the idea that you can get more out of the equation and win more in the relationship. Also, I don't think not believing in love at first sight doesn't mean that isn't something someone still might subconsciously desires. What do you actually want out of a relationship?

The rigidity we have on the spectrum makes it more difficult to reciprocate and adapt as is needed in a successful relationship, those are the deficits I think I probably should really work and focus on if I were in a relationship. That's how people can grow together as a couple, if you struggle with that then you will probably struggle in your relationship I would imagne. I'm screwed up in other ways so there is work to be done on myself if I am going to be a truly independent person, anxiety is something that I can know is completely irrational but still experience it in the worst mental and physical way so I am kind of a slave to that condition unfortunately but I digress from talking about myself since the point being I get that it's all just easier said than done. What the hell do I know about long-term compatibility anyways? Probably the wrong guy to ask... :oops:


Oh, I think I know what you're getting at. Do I want something to just fall into my lap that requires no effort? I wonder if I do. I wonder if that is the problem.

Here's an irony. I have a friend who tells me that the right person will just come along and I'll know that he likes me and I won't have to go to as much effort as I have been. Funny thing is, I reckon men think I don't make enough effort. But then I freeze up and I don't know what they want from me and I don't know what to do

Others have been saying they lose interest and the attraction fades if the lass doesn't seem to like them back, so that explains why I've had enthusiastic interest which has suddenly disappeared. I don't think I behave the way the average woman does or I don't behave they way they expect me to. So it ends before it begins and I'm still trying to decide whether I like they guy, but he's totally lost interest by the time I decide I do.