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Male disposability in life & dating

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Closet Genious
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16 Oct 2017, 7:23 am

hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’ve been rejected in person for it too. I don’t by the it’s just cause they online. They hold the same requirements they just don’t walk around telling everyone and their friends.

Art student in college. They make exceptions to cpmen in college cause ideally such men graduate and get good jobs. I should have dated while in college. Maybe I’d met s nice lady and she’d stayed with me when it turned out I’m a failure who wasted money on a degree


I hate to tell you this, but it's not just the job thing. Those of us on the spectrum are just very different from the mainstream. Even if you had a good job you'd still be autistic as would all of us here.

I've got a friend who I've not known that long, but he has a good job, a fancy car and he's very nice, but women aren't interested because he is too quiet and awkward. I'm willing to give him a chance. It's been slow progress getting to know because he's so quiet and so am I. I'm also older than him so I've been cautious so I don't make a fool of myself.

But a good job doesn't always equal success.


A good job will never hurt anyones chances.

The singer/songwriter john mayer is about as akward as I am, an likely on the spectrum, yet he is swimming in women. Though he is rich and famous of course...


I doesn't hurt, but it isn't the magic key to success.


His way of communitcating is almost identical to mine.
I don't think we can reasonably say that money doesn't help(alot). He would have as little success as me, if he was poor.



The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 7:27 am

Quote:
yet he is swimming in women


The 'pool' would become dangerously unstable if one of them farts a silent killer.



magz
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16 Oct 2017, 7:44 am

Closet Genious wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

Or maybe in those macho cultures women choose STEM not to be seen as lesser beings, to feel more valuable, to be someone more equal to a male? While in more "feminized" cultures they don't want to be like those "bad" males?
I don't know, I can only speculate, I live in one culture and have certainly limited expirience. And my expirience was - my mother and grandmother wanted me to be more womanly, warm and emotional, while my father and uncle supported my STEM interests and logic wholeheartedly.
So maybe girls in STEM are an indication of a male-dominated society? I don't judge it, it's just a thought.


I feel like you're doing alot of mental gymnastics just to avoid the obvious explanation.


What is the obvious explanation? That too much Feminism makes women lazy? :lol: :lol:


Not quite lol.

That when there's not alot of economic incentive to go into STEM, women would rather go into people oriented fields like child care and nursing.

In my country the gap between a kindergarten teacher and an engineer, isn't actually that wide.

In poor countries however, the amount of extra economic freedom one can achieve by going into STEM is massive.

Long story short: if money didn't matter, women are more passionate about people, and men are more passionate about things.

GENERALLY

As Boo pointed out, Arab Gulf engineer women are not poor. I personally knew two girls form Kuwait, whose participation in an international physics competition was sponsored by their families.
On the other hand, there are lots of relatively poor people in USA and UK, yet I don't see disadvantaged groups form these countries seeking well-being in engineering.
There are cultural prejudices in carrier choice. Why do I know black physicists from Africa and Carribean, but not black Americans? I am pretty sure they have the same distribution of predispositions.


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Closet Genious
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16 Oct 2017, 7:51 am

magz wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

Or maybe in those macho cultures women choose STEM not to be seen as lesser beings, to feel more valuable, to be someone more equal to a male? While in more "feminized" cultures they don't want to be like those "bad" males?
I don't know, I can only speculate, I live in one culture and have certainly limited expirience. And my expirience was - my mother and grandmother wanted me to be more womanly, warm and emotional, while my father and uncle supported my STEM interests and logic wholeheartedly.
So maybe girls in STEM are an indication of a male-dominated society? I don't judge it, it's just a thought.


I feel like you're doing alot of mental gymnastics just to avoid the obvious explanation.


What is the obvious explanation? That too much Feminism makes women lazy? :lol: :lol:


Not quite lol.

That when there's not alot of economic incentive to go into STEM, women would rather go into people oriented fields like child care and nursing.

In my country the gap between a kindergarten teacher and an engineer, isn't actually that wide.

In poor countries however, the amount of extra economic freedom one can achieve by going into STEM is massive.

Long story short: if money didn't matter, women are more passionate about people, and men are more passionate about things.

GENERALLY

As Boo pointed out, Arab Gulf engineer women are not poor. I personally knew two girls form Kuwait, whose participation in an international physics competition was sponsored by their families.
On the other hand, there are lots of relatively poor people in USA and UK, yet I don't see disadvantaged groups form these countries seeking well-being in engineering.
There are cultural prejudices in carrier choice. Why do I know black physicists from Africa and Carribean, but not black Americans? I am pretty sure they have the same distribution of predispositions.


Fair enough, I concede. Let's agree that we both have absolutely no clue.



hurtloam
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16 Oct 2017, 8:15 am

Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’ve been rejected in person for it too. I don’t by the it’s just cause they online. They hold the same requirements they just don’t walk around telling everyone and their friends.

Art student in college. They make exceptions to cpmen in college cause ideally such men graduate and get good jobs. I should have dated while in college. Maybe I’d met s nice lady and she’d stayed with me when it turned out I’m a failure who wasted money on a degree


I hate to tell you this, but it's not just the job thing. Those of us on the spectrum are just very different from the mainstream. Even if you had a good job you'd still be autistic as would all of us here.

I've got a friend who I've not known that long, but he has a good job, a fancy car and he's very nice, but women aren't interested because he is too quiet and awkward. I'm willing to give him a chance. It's been slow progress getting to know because he's so quiet and so am I. I'm also older than him so I've been cautious so I don't make a fool of myself.

But a good job doesn't always equal success.


A good job will never hurt anyones chances.

The singer/songwriter john mayer is about as akward as I am, an likely on the spectrum, yet he is swimming in women. Though he is rich and famous of course...


I doesn't hurt, but it isn't the magic key to success.


His way of communitcating is almost identical to mine.
I don't think we can reasonably say that money doesn't help(alot). He would have as little success as me, if he was poor.


We need to bring this conversation down to the level of regular people though. Comparing someone who works in a good IT job to a supermarket clerk is more sensible.



Closet Genious
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16 Oct 2017, 8:23 am

hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’ve been rejected in person for it too. I don’t by the it’s just cause they online. They hold the same requirements they just don’t walk around telling everyone and their friends.

Art student in college. They make exceptions to cpmen in college cause ideally such men graduate and get good jobs. I should have dated while in college. Maybe I’d met s nice lady and she’d stayed with me when it turned out I’m a failure who wasted money on a degree


I hate to tell you this, but it's not just the job thing. Those of us on the spectrum are just very different from the mainstream. Even if you had a good job you'd still be autistic as would all of us here.

I've got a friend who I've not known that long, but he has a good job, a fancy car and he's very nice, but women aren't interested because he is too quiet and awkward. I'm willing to give him a chance. It's been slow progress getting to know because he's so quiet and so am I. I'm also older than him so I've been cautious so I don't make a fool of myself.

But a good job doesn't always equal success.


A good job will never hurt anyones chances.

The singer/songwriter john mayer is about as akward as I am, an likely on the spectrum, yet he is swimming in women. Though he is rich and famous of course...


I doesn't hurt, but it isn't the magic key to success.


His way of communitcating is almost identical to mine.
I don't think we can reasonably say that money doesn't help(alot). He would have as little success as me, if he was poor.


We need to bring this conversation down to the level of regular people though. Comparing someone who works in a good IT job to a supermarket clerk is more sensible.


Why? He is an akward guy, who gets to swim in women because he is rich.

We can't honestly say money doesn't matter.



The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 8:30 am

@Closet:


Some of what you said is explained here:
https://contexts.org/articles/what-gender-is-science/

Quote:
Ironically, the freedom of choice that’s so celebrated in affluent Western democracies seems to help construct and give agency to stereotypically gendered “selves.”


Quote:
Another reason for stronger sex segregation of STEM in affluent countries may be that more people (girls and women in particular) can afford to indulge tastes for less lucrative care and social service work in these contexts. Because personal economic security and national development are such central concerns to young people and their parents in developing societies, there is less latitude and support for the realization of gender-specific preferences.


Regarding CS:

Quote:
But even when fields are defined more precisely, countries differ in some unexpected ways. A case in point is computer science in Malaysia and the U.S. While American computer scientists are depicted as male hackers and geeks, computer science in Malaysia is deemed well-suited for women because it’s seen as theoretical (not physical) and it takes place almost exclusively in offices (thought to be woman-friendly spaces). In interviews with sociologist Vivian Lagesen, female computer science students in Malaysia reported taking up computing because they like computers and because they and their parents think the field has good job prospects. The students also referenced government efforts to promote economic development by training workers, both male and female, for the expanding information technology field. About half of Malaysian computer science degrees go to women.


Regarding Engineering:

Quote:
Engineering is the most strongly and consistently male-typed field of study worldwide, but its gender composition still varies widely across countries. Female representation is generally weaker in advanced industrial societies than in developing ones. In our 2009 article in the American Journal of Sociology,
Karen Bradley and I found this pattern using international data from the mid-1990s; it was confirmed by more recent statistics assembled by UNESCO. Between 2005 and 2008, countries with the most male-dominated engineering programs include the world’s leading industrial democracies (Japan, Switzerland, Germany, and the U.S.) along with some of the same oil-rich Middle Eastern countries in which women are so well-represented among science graduates (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the United Arab Emirates). Although women do not reach the fifty-percent mark in any country, they come very close in Indonesia, where 48 percent of engineering graduates are female (compared to a 49 percent share of all Indonesian college and university graduates). Women comprise about a third of recent engineering graduates in a diverse group of countries including Mongolia, Greece, Serbia, Panama, Denmark, Bulgaria, and Malaysia.

While engineering is uniformly male-typed in the West, Lagesen’s interviews suggest Malaysians draw gender distinctions among engineering subfields. One female student reported, “…In chemical engineering, most of the time you work in labs… So I think it’s quite suitable for females also. But for civil engineering… we have to go to the site and check out the constructions.”



hurtloam
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16 Oct 2017, 8:44 am

Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’ve been rejected in person for it too. I don’t by the it’s just cause they online. They hold the same requirements they just don’t walk around telling everyone and their friends.

Art student in college. They make exceptions to cpmen in college cause ideally such men graduate and get good jobs. I should have dated while in college. Maybe I’d met s nice lady and she’d stayed with me when it turned out I’m a failure who wasted money on a degree


I hate to tell you this, but it's not just the job thing. Those of us on the spectrum are just very different from the mainstream. Even if you had a good job you'd still be autistic as would all of us here.

I've got a friend who I've not known that long, but he has a good job, a fancy car and he's very nice, but women aren't interested because he is too quiet and awkward. I'm willing to give him a chance. It's been slow progress getting to know because he's so quiet and so am I. I'm also older than him so I've been cautious so I don't make a fool of myself.

But a good job doesn't always equal success.


A good job will never hurt anyones chances.

The singer/songwriter john mayer is about as akward as I am, an likely on the spectrum, yet he is swimming in women. Though he is rich and famous of course...


I doesn't hurt, but it isn't the magic key to success.


His way of communitcating is almost identical to mine.
I don't think we can reasonably say that money doesn't help(alot). He would have as little success as me, if he was poor.


We need to bring this conversation down to the level of regular people though. Comparing someone who works in a good IT job to a supermarket clerk is more sensible.


Why? He is an akward guy, who gets to swim in women because he is rich.

We can't honestly say money doesn't matter.


Hmmm, I thought the point of these conversations were about our lives and how we interact with people we know... unless you know John Mayer and you're not in our ball park socially lol.

But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.



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16 Oct 2017, 8:51 am

^

Quote:
But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.


Guys on Sausage apps....I mean dating apps are competing over very very few women. Like the thousands of job seekers applying for the same few jobs.



hurtloam
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16 Oct 2017, 8:56 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^
Quote:
But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.


Guys on Sausage apps....I mean dating apps are competing over very very few women. Like the thousands of job seekers applying for the same few jobs.


Yes but my hypothesis is that even with a good job an autistic man still has a range of other cards stacked against him. The good job isnt the magic key for him.



The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 9:00 am

hurtloam wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^
Quote:
But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.


Guys on Sausage apps....I mean dating apps are competing over very very few women. Like the thousands of job seekers applying for the same few jobs.


Yes but my hypothesis is that even with a good job an autistic man still has a range of other cards stacked against him. The good job isnt the magic key for him.


Will you date a jobless man?



Closet Genious
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16 Oct 2017, 9:00 am

hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’ve been rejected in person for it too. I don’t by the it’s just cause they online. They hold the same requirements they just don’t walk around telling everyone and their friends.

Art student in college. They make exceptions to cpmen in college cause ideally such men graduate and get good jobs. I should have dated while in college. Maybe I’d met s nice lady and she’d stayed with me when it turned out I’m a failure who wasted money on a degree


I hate to tell you this, but it's not just the job thing. Those of us on the spectrum are just very different from the mainstream. Even if you had a good job you'd still be autistic as would all of us here.

I've got a friend who I've not known that long, but he has a good job, a fancy car and he's very nice, but women aren't interested because he is too quiet and awkward. I'm willing to give him a chance. It's been slow progress getting to know because he's so quiet and so am I. I'm also older than him so I've been cautious so I don't make a fool of myself.

But a good job doesn't always equal success.


A good job will never hurt anyones chances.

The singer/songwriter john mayer is about as akward as I am, an likely on the spectrum, yet he is swimming in women. Though he is rich and famous of course...


I doesn't hurt, but it isn't the magic key to success.


His way of communitcating is almost identical to mine.
I don't think we can reasonably say that money doesn't help(alot). He would have as little success as me, if he was poor.


We need to bring this conversation down to the level of regular people though. Comparing someone who works in a good IT job to a supermarket clerk is more sensible.


Why? He is an akward guy, who gets to swim in women because he is rich.

We can't honestly say money doesn't matter.


Hmmm, I thought the point of these conversations were about our lives and how we interact with people we know... unless you know John Mayer and you're not in our ball park socially lol.

But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.


You're not being fair now hurtloam. You're not responding to what I am saying.
Social ball parks has nothing to do with it. If an awkard guy like john mayer gets to swim in (attractive) women, you cannot say with a straight face that social skills are all that matter.



magz
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16 Oct 2017, 9:18 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^
Quote:
But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.


Guys on Sausage apps....I mean dating apps are competing over very very few women. Like the thousands of job seekers applying for the same few jobs.


Yes but my hypothesis is that even with a good job an autistic man still has a range of other cards stacked against him. The good job isnt the magic key for him.


Will you date a jobless man?

Honestly? In college, when he is obviously jobless yet.
But my mentally ill, jobless cousin has a girlfriend and they have been together for years now.
TBH, many women in the family wonder why she stays with him... but good for him!

A good job may be another advantage for any man: it gives more self confidence. And a sense of self confidence and self worth is something women feel and like.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 9:20 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^
Quote:
But the odds of guys on here competing against John Mayer types on dating apps is slim.


Guys on Sausage apps....I mean dating apps are competing over very very few women. Like the thousands of job seekers applying for the same few jobs.


Yes but my hypothesis is that even with a good job an autistic man still has a range of other cards stacked against him. The good job isnt the magic key for him.


Will you date a jobless man?

Honestly? In college, when he is obviously jobless yet.
But my mentally ill, jobless cousin has a girlfriend and they have been together for years now.
TBH, many women in the family wonder why she stays with him... but good for him!

A good job may be another advantage for any man: it gives more self confidence. And a sense of self confidence and self worth is something women feel and like.


Forget the confidence thing and the college context.

Would you have married a jobless man?



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16 Oct 2017, 9:22 am

Disposability of men: Harvey Weinstein.

Rich, famous, powerful, had his pick of women and could afford to keep mouths shut.

Once the money slips, even just a little, so does the power. Now Harvey is just another creep, just another bum. Give it another year or three and people will be like “Harvey Who?” Even being famous, rich, and possessing male genitalia is not enough to prevent even a “great artist” from being casually tossed in the dustbin of public opinion, lost and forgotten all but for his abuse of women.



magz
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16 Oct 2017, 9:32 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Would you have married a jobless man?

What do you mean "forget the college"?
I would marry an unemployed man if I didn't see him as hopelessly jobless. He could be jobless at the moment.
But the men I know prefer to find a job first, then marry.


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