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goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 2:55 pm

MakaylaTheAspie wrote:
I honestly don't think it's that deep, everyone.

Split the bill, or talk about it.


Thing is.. I think it is a bit deeper than people on this forum think it is.

ie Of course a bunch of females replying to this thread are saying things like "it's only logical to split the bill 50/50," because many of them are on the spectrum and think in logical, rational, mathematical terms.

We're talking about the social world, though, not wrongplanet forum coffee meetups. By and large I guarantee you that the NT female will appreciate a guy paying for a date. Sure, there may be some who think that's "old hat," and that women have been empowered with jobs & income of their own and can pay blah blah, but for the most part, I believe there's still an underlying unwritten social rule that the male pays the bill and the female tends to like it that way.


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10 Dec 2017, 2:56 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I say whoever asks for a date picks up the bill. The reason why is if YOU want a date with someone, YOU should make it worth her time. It’s a reward for that person spending time with you when she could just as well be doing something else worthwhile.

If things go well, you get a second date. If things do NOT go well, at least she was entertained for an hour and got a free meal, so she doesn’t leave COMPLETELY empty handed.

Beyond the third date, assuming there’s some sort of exclusive arrangement, you decide how the money is going to work between the two of you. I once took summer classes in college. I did ok with a girl for the most part. When the money ran out and I had to ask her to drive up and pay for dates or just take a break for a few weeks until things got stable again, she suddenly couldn’t be bothered to answer the phone when I called.

Guys who can always pick up the bill and never sweat it if she never pays will always have an advantage over the perpetually poor such as myself.


Genuine question: Do you reward your friends for spending time with you?


AngelRho is correct, someone with $ will always have the upper hand over others without $ when it comes to dating. Not only are they able to pick up the tab for that date, chances are their "overall attractiveness," is a bar or two above, too, because of the underlying qualities that they have that enable them to both earn & keep more money - it's caveman stuff.. women are attracted to Alpha male providers & the ability to pay for dates is an early indicator of one's financial resources.

Is what it is, those without $ have bigger challenges & have to overcome them with charm, personality, humour, thoughtfulness, dreams & goals, love & attention etc if they're not initially perceived as the financially stable provider type.


As for rewarding friends, my answer is yes-and-no it's more complicated than that. With friends there's no implied social contract that dates/time & money spent is intended to lead to a romantic, intimate, relationship, so the time we invest with friends is simply apples to oranges compared to a date. That said, if I'm in a position to do so (and I pretty much always am, these days) I'll pay for certain friends' way for dinner/drinks etc because I want to. There are a few close friends in my life that I love dearly and I couldn't care less if they EVER have $x to splash out on dinner or drinks with me due to low income and extremely high costs of living, I don't mind treating them to whatever it is, so, I do it. It's not a bribe or reward for spending time with me, it's simply because I love & appreciate them and I have the resources to treat them, so, I do. It's a bit like my nature of buying Christmas presents for them, too. I don't expect gifts in return - I get from giving.

No, it's not always a one sided thing and I'm certainly not being taken advantage of, either. I used to always pay the tab for one friend, because I wanted to. Fast forward half our lives and now whenever I'm out with him or his family, like I was for dinner last night, I can pull out my wallet to pay my way (or the whole tab) and he refuses. Ever since he knew I had financial difficulties a decade ago, combined with his business being ever more successful, he's been the one to pick up the tab - especially in the last few years with his business taking off. It's a bit bothersome at times, as I at least like to pay my own way, or to treat him to a beer or his wife & kids to a meal.. but w/e, I spoil those kids so much on their birthdays & Christmas. So, yeah, he's like me and treats others well, picks up the tabs all-the-time, because he can, and I'm sure it makes him feel good to be able to treat his friends to things just as it does for me. 8)

IMO, if you've never had a friend you've wanted to treat to something, or have never had one that does so for you.. maybe it's time for new friends.


You're preaching to the choir mate... I've written extensively about hypergamy on this forum.
While I agree that women find money attractive, you're making this thing a bit too black and white. Women will most certainly find your ability to pay attractive, but not necessarily paying in itself. You're not gonna communicate that you have high value just by paying for everything, you might actually communicate the opposite. That you have low self esteem, you have weak boundaries, and that you're trying to overcompensate for something.
Women are not attracted to men who don't respect themselves. And this is what I would accuse Angel of, he has already decided that the woman is worth more than himself. Angel is known to worship women as if they were gods, and he has a kind of self loathing attitude that I don't think very many women will find attractive.
He is doing it for all the wrong reasons.



MakaylaTheAspie
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10 Dec 2017, 3:07 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
MakaylaTheAspie wrote:
I honestly don't think it's that deep, everyone.

Split the bill, or talk about it.


Thing is.. I think it is a bit deeper than people on this forum think it is.

ie Of course a bunch of females replying to this thread are saying things like "it's only logical to split the bill 50/50," because many of them are on the spectrum and think in logical, rational, mathematical terms.

We're talking about the social world, though, not wrongplanet forum coffee meetups. By and large I guarantee you that the NT female will appreciate a guy paying for a date. Sure, there may be some who think that's "old hat," and that women have been empowered with jobs & income of their own and can pay blah blah, but for the most part, I believe there's still an underlying unwritten social rule that the male pays the bill and the female tends to like it that way.


Having been on several dates by now, I usually split the bill 50/50 with a date unless they offer to pay or I offer to pay.

Really, it isn't that deep unless the date is either extremely emotionally manipulative, or misogynistic to a fault.

What I do pay attention to, however, is how much they tip.


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AngelRho
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10 Dec 2017, 5:49 pm

Closet Genious wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I say whoever asks for a date picks up the bill. The reason why is if YOU want a date with someone, YOU should make it worth her time. It’s a reward for that person spending time with you when she could just as well be doing something else worthwhile.

If things go well, you get a second date. If things do NOT go well, at least she was entertained for an hour and got a free meal, so she doesn’t leave COMPLETELY empty handed.

Beyond the third date, assuming there’s some sort of exclusive arrangement, you decide how the money is going to work between the two of you. I once took summer classes in college. I did ok with a girl for the most part. When the money ran out and I had to ask her to drive up and pay for dates or just take a break for a few weeks until things got stable again, she suddenly couldn’t be bothered to answer the phone when I called.

Guys who can always pick up the bill and never sweat it if she never pays will always have an advantage over the perpetually poor such as myself.


Genuine question: Do you reward your friends for spending time with you?


AngelRho is correct, someone with $ will always have the upper hand over others without $ when it comes to dating. Not only are they able to pick up the tab for that date, chances are their "overall attractiveness," is a bar or two above, too, because of the underlying qualities that they have that enable them to both earn & keep more money - it's caveman stuff.. women are attracted to Alpha male providers & the ability to pay for dates is an early indicator of one's financial resources.

Is what it is, those without $ have bigger challenges & have to overcome them with charm, personality, humour, thoughtfulness, dreams & goals, love & attention etc if they're not initially perceived as the financially stable provider type.


As for rewarding friends, my answer is yes-and-no it's more complicated than that. With friends there's no implied social contract that dates/time & money spent is intended to lead to a romantic, intimate, relationship, so the time we invest with friends is simply apples to oranges compared to a date. That said, if I'm in a position to do so (and I pretty much always am, these days) I'll pay for certain friends' way for dinner/drinks etc because I want to. There are a few close friends in my life that I love dearly and I couldn't care less if they EVER have $x to splash out on dinner or drinks with me due to low income and extremely high costs of living, I don't mind treating them to whatever it is, so, I do it. It's not a bribe or reward for spending time with me, it's simply because I love & appreciate them and I have the resources to treat them, so, I do. It's a bit like my nature of buying Christmas presents for them, too. I don't expect gifts in return - I get from giving.

No, it's not always a one sided thing and I'm certainly not being taken advantage of, either. I used to always pay the tab for one friend, because I wanted to. Fast forward half our lives and now whenever I'm out with him or his family, like I was for dinner last night, I can pull out my wallet to pay my way (or the whole tab) and he refuses. Ever since he knew I had financial difficulties a decade ago, combined with his business being ever more successful, he's been the one to pick up the tab - especially in the last few years with his business taking off. It's a bit bothersome at times, as I at least like to pay my own way, or to treat him to a beer or his wife & kids to a meal.. but w/e, I spoil those kids so much on their birthdays & Christmas. So, yeah, he's like me and treats others well, picks up the tabs all-the-time, because he can, and I'm sure it makes him feel good to be able to treat his friends to things just as it does for me. 8)

IMO, if you've never had a friend you've wanted to treat to something, or have never had one that does so for you.. maybe it's time for new friends.


You're preaching to the choir mate... I've written extensively about hypergamy on this forum.
While I agree that women find money attractive, you're making this thing a bit too black and white. Women will most certainly find your ability to pay attractive, but not necessarily paying in itself. You're not gonna communicate that you have high value just by paying for everything, you might actually communicate the opposite. That you have low self esteem, you have weak boundaries, and that you're trying to overcompensate for something.
Women are not attracted to men who don't respect themselves. And this is what I would accuse Angel of, he has already decided that the woman is worth more than himself. Angel is known to worship women as if they were gods, and he has a kind of self loathing attitude that I don't think very many women will find attractive.
He is doing it for all the wrong reasons.

What wrong reasons? I just do it for the sex.



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10 Dec 2017, 6:00 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I say whoever asks for a date picks up the bill. The reason why is if YOU want a date with someone, YOU should make it worth her time. It’s a reward for that person spending time with you when she could just as well be doing something else worthwhile.

If things go well, you get a second date. If things do NOT go well, at least she was entertained for an hour and got a free meal, so she doesn’t leave COMPLETELY empty handed.

Beyond the third date, assuming there’s some sort of exclusive arrangement, you decide how the money is going to work between the two of you. I once took summer classes in college. I did ok with a girl for the most part. When the money ran out and I had to ask her to drive up and pay for dates or just take a break for a few weeks until things got stable again, she suddenly couldn’t be bothered to answer the phone when I called.

Guys who can always pick up the bill and never sweat it if she never pays will always have an advantage over the perpetually poor such as myself.


Genuine question: Do you reward your friends for spending time with you?


AngelRho is correct, someone with $ will always have the upper hand over others without $ when it comes to dating. Not only are they able to pick up the tab for that date, chances are their "overall attractiveness," is a bar or two above, too, because of the underlying qualities that they have that enable them to both earn & keep more money - it's caveman stuff.. women are attracted to Alpha male providers & the ability to pay for dates is an early indicator of one's financial resources.

Is what it is, those without $ have bigger challenges & have to overcome them with charm, personality, humour, thoughtfulness, dreams & goals, love & attention etc if they're not initially perceived as the financially stable provider type.


As for rewarding friends, my answer is yes-and-no it's more complicated than that. With friends there's no implied social contract that dates/time & money spent is intended to lead to a romantic, intimate, relationship, so the time we invest with friends is simply apples to oranges compared to a date. That said, if I'm in a position to do so (and I pretty much always am, these days) I'll pay for certain friends' way for dinner/drinks etc because I want to. There are a few close friends in my life that I love dearly and I couldn't care less if they EVER have $x to splash out on dinner or drinks with me due to low income and extremely high costs of living, I don't mind treating them to whatever it is, so, I do it. It's not a bribe or reward for spending time with me, it's simply because I love & appreciate them and I have the resources to treat them, so, I do. It's a bit like my nature of buying Christmas presents for them, too. I don't expect gifts in return - I get from giving.

No, it's not always a one sided thing and I'm certainly not being taken advantage of, either. I used to always pay the tab for one friend, because I wanted to. Fast forward half our lives and now whenever I'm out with him or his family, like I was for dinner last night, I can pull out my wallet to pay my way (or the whole tab) and he refuses. Ever since he knew I had financial difficulties a decade ago, combined with his business being ever more successful, he's been the one to pick up the tab - especially in the last few years with his business taking off. It's a bit bothersome at times, as I at least like to pay my own way, or to treat him to a beer or his wife & kids to a meal.. but w/e, I spoil those kids so much on their birthdays & Christmas. So, yeah, he's like me and treats others well, picks up the tabs all-the-time, because he can, and I'm sure it makes him feel good to be able to treat his friends to things just as it does for me. 8)

IMO, if you've never had a friend you've wanted to treat to something, or have never had one that does so for you.. maybe it's time for new friends.


You're preaching to the choir mate... I've written extensively about hypergamy on this forum.
While I agree that women find money attractive, you're making this thing a bit too black and white. Women will most certainly find your ability to pay attractive, but not necessarily paying in itself. You're not gonna communicate that you have high value just by paying for everything, you might actually communicate the opposite. That you have low self esteem, you have weak boundaries, and that you're trying to overcompensate for something.
Women are not attracted to men who don't respect themselves. And this is what I would accuse Angel of, he has already decided that the woman is worth more than himself. Angel is known to worship women as if they were gods, and he has a kind of self loathing attitude that I don't think very many women will find attractive.
He is doing it for all the wrong reasons.

What wrong reasons? I just do it for the sex.


Hmm... now you confuse me angel.

In that case, I wouldn't mind paying for a date if all I wanted was sex, but I wouldn't want to build a relationship on that foundation. I am not fully convinced that paying would make it more likely that I got laid though, I would actually think it's a slight disadvantage. There are enough spineless men who want to throw their wallets at women, alot of them might find it more exciting to date someone who doesn't conform and doesn't inflate her.



Last edited by Closet Genious on 10 Dec 2017, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Dec 2017, 6:19 pm

So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?



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10 Dec 2017, 6:52 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?

Prostitution is the BUSINESS of sexual services. My wife and I have a mutually beneficial, exclusive arrangement. If that makes her my whore, then I’m just as much one as she is.



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10 Dec 2017, 7:02 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?

What else would you call a woman who gets paid for her time and may have sex with said paying guys? If the guy paid the woman directly instead of buying her food it’d be clear prostitution or that other thing where you call a number and pay to go on a date with one of their women.

I also believe giving gifts for sex is prostitution too if police catch the transaction.
Women should just pay for their own meal. Also why is a woman’s time more valued then men’s? Shouldn’t women pay for a mans time? No cause society values women more cause they born with a vagina and boobs. And a lot of women believe their special and more valuable for same reason. For a relationship both man and woman should be on a date to spend time getting to know each other not to be rewarded for their time like it’s a pity date for the man. A woman’s time isn’t any more valueable then a mans. We are all humans. Women are some elite class of humans. Some women will even just fake date men to get free dinners and entertainment. One lady at work bragged about how she had no interest in dating a guy but he paid for her dinners and actives so she’d go on dates with him just for that. That’s horrible. She’s wasting his time and money and going hurt him when she’s done using him.

I had a lady go on a fake date with me. She ran out of food money and wanted a free meal :(



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10 Dec 2017, 7:05 pm

In my experience, guys tend to go on dates expecting sex afterward. :shrug:

Word of advice: don't go on a date with someone you barely know.


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10 Dec 2017, 7:06 pm

AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?

Prostitution is the BUSINESS of sexual services. My wife and I have a mutually beneficial, exclusive arrangement. If that makes her my whore, then I’m just as much one as she is.

So you’re relationship is you giving her gifts and dinners in exchange for sex? There’s nothing else to it? If so then yes that’s prostitution. No different then if I give gifts to a woman I met online in exchange for sex or gf experience. This is the sad state of relationships. It’s just a business exchange nothing more.so cold hearted. No wonder a lot of well off quality men don’t want to date or get married.



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10 Dec 2017, 7:09 pm

MakaylaTheAspie wrote:
In my experience, guys tend to go on dates expecting sex afterward. :shrug:

Word of advice: don't go on a date with someone you barely know.

Bunch of women do too.

Makes me anxious. I once had a woman ask me to com over after midnight to have sex with her. :s I can’t , I need emotional bonding to have sex otherwise I get super anxious and panic. I prefer to message online or text for few weeks before a date.
Probably be a few weeks after meeting up and dates before I’d be able to have sex. I dont know though as I’ve never had 2nd date. I made out with women after first date , we’d talked for weeks before meeting up. Making out is fun safe and since I knew them less anxious but sex is whole another level

Date for me is just for bonding.
Probably part of why I didn’t get 2nd dates, they likely wanted sex. I can’t do sex on 1sr,2nd,3rd dates

Also women always bring up sex first. And I’m super hyper sexual. I may think about them sexually but I don’t bring it up.

The one lady met another guy few weeks later and was pregnant within a month or so. I assume he was willing to have sex with her rather quickly. They married now.



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10 Dec 2017, 7:14 pm

sly279 wrote:
MakaylaTheAspie wrote:
In my experience, guys tend to go on dates expecting sex afterward. :shrug:

Word of advice: don't go on a date with someone you barely know.

Bunch of women do too.

Makes me anxious. I once had a woman ask me to com over after midnight to have sex with her. :s I can’t , I need emotional bonding to have sex otherwise I get super anxious and panic. I prefer to message online or text for few weeks before a date.
Probably be a few weeks after meeting up and dates before I’d be able to have sex. I dont know though as I’ve never had 2nd date. I made out with women after first date , we’d talked for weeks before meeting up. Making out is fun safe and since I knew them less anxious but sex is whole another level

Date for me is just for bonding.
Probably part of why I didn’t get 2nd dates, they likely wanted sex. I can’t do sex on 1sr,2nd,3rd dates

Also women always bring up sex first. And I’m super hyper sexual. I may think about them sexually but I don’t bring it up.

The one lady met another guy few weeks later and was pregnant within a month or so. I assume he was willing to have sex with her rather quickly. They married now.


What kind of women are you meeting up with if they always mention sex first? :S


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10 Dec 2017, 8:39 pm

sly279 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?

Prostitution is the BUSINESS of sexual services. My wife and I have a mutually beneficial, exclusive arrangement. If that makes her my whore, then I’m just as much one as she is.

So you’re relationship is you giving her gifts and dinners in exchange for sex? There’s nothing else to it? If so then yes that’s prostitution. No different then if I give gifts to a woman I met online in exchange for sex or gf experience. This is the sad state of relationships. It’s just a business exchange nothing more.so cold hearted. No wonder a lot of well off quality men don’t want to date or get married.

Go back and read my earlier post.

Dating is not the same as relationships. Dating is an activity that involves enjoying the company of someone else while getting to know them. Going out on 1, 2, 3 with one person is not the same thing as having a relationship. Going out on 1, 2, 3 dates with someone DOES NOT MEAN you are having sex. ACTUALLY BEING IN A RELATIONSHIP does NOT even mean you are having sex. I am in a relationship but am not dating.

ALL activities and exchanges in going out on dates and being in LTR and, yes, having sex involve some kind of reward. If it didn’t, nobody would do it. Men get off on exercising power over a woman’s body by manipulating her to orgasm and experiencing his own release; women get to feel cared and provided for, that a man thinks she’s important enough to make her feel good. Both parties are capable of rewarding each other in sex, and sex is the most obvious expression of a mutually gratifying arrangement.

I’m not promoting or encouraging sexism. I’m simply pointing out a tendency among many males to dominate; right or wrong is another debate. It’s honestly the status quo. Regardless, people don’t do things unless they perceive that there is some benefit to them. Rich people don’t keep getting rich by hoarding money. They are generous, and because of that people keep throwing more and more money at them because they believe in what rich folks do, which increases their wealth and their continued ability to give.

Everything else is really just about sex. It’s not that everyone is actually getting sex. They just want the same feeling. You succeed when you can make someone feel important. Which is why gifts, meals, recreational activities, and interests that can be shared are so crucial to forming relationships over the long term. A girl will not accept a date with a guy with nothing to offer. A guy will not ask a girl out who has nothing to offer. Neither will start a relationship with the other if there’s nothing to benefit the other in the long term, if there’s no reason to care about the other person.

You can apply the same concept to friendships, other personal and professional relationships as well. Never, ever punish people for being nice to you.

Lastly, I don’t look at it so much as prostitution. Because if that’s so, then we are all both johns AND whores. Every time you pay someone for food, you’re manipulating someone into gratifying your perceived need for a full belly. Or when you go out and you pay for a meal and YOU don’t wash your dishes or clean your table afterwards, you create extra work for someone else who probably deserves more money for YOUR mess. You reduce people to servants and slaves, to something sub-human when you do that. If you want to claim some moral high ground and say that it’s not the same as paying for sex, then please explain exactly what’s so different about it?

I’m not a proponent of sex in dating or in non-permanent relationships. Having said that, I enjoy bringing a woman to climax and I can pretty much pop on command and go for hours before that if need be. If I feel the timing is wrong and I won’t get what I want out of sex, then I won’t do it. If I have an off night and I can’t satisfy her, I don’t bother wasting her time. If I was dating, I certainly wouldn’t leave a date empty handed afterwards.



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10 Dec 2017, 10:41 pm

MakaylaTheAspie wrote:
sly279 wrote:
MakaylaTheAspie wrote:
In my experience, guys tend to go on dates expecting sex afterward. :shrug:

Word of advice: don't go on a date with someone you barely know.

Bunch of women do too.

Makes me anxious. I once had a woman ask me to com over after midnight to have sex with her. :s I can’t , I need emotional bonding to have sex otherwise I get super anxious and panic. I prefer to message online or text for few weeks before a date.
Probably be a few weeks after meeting up and dates before I’d be able to have sex. I dont know though as I’ve never had 2nd date. I made out with women after first date , we’d talked for weeks before meeting up. Making out is fun safe and since I knew them less anxious but sex is whole another level

Date for me is just for bonding.
Probably part of why I didn’t get 2nd dates, they likely wanted sex. I can’t do sex on 1sr,2nd,3rd dates

Also women always bring up sex first. And I’m super hyper sexual. I may think about them sexually but I don’t bring it up.

The one lady met another guy few weeks later and was pregnant within a month or so. I assume he was willing to have sex with her rather quickly. They married now.


What kind of women are you meeting up with if they always mention sex first? :S

Just be be clear I meant before me. Not like it’s first thing they talk about. Though one was in first few messages.
I meet women in dating sites and Craigslist. They horny women I guess. They said they sexually open. I’m not sexually open, I’m often anxious about sex , embarrassed y sex, or shamed of sexual thoughts and desires.



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11 Dec 2017, 2:40 am

AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?

Prostitution is the BUSINESS of sexual services. My wife and I have a mutually beneficial, exclusive arrangement. If that makes her my whore, then I’m just as much one as she is.


She's your wife now, but I was criticizing about your view on Dating, not on marriage or relationship.

But you surely dated your wife before she becomes your wife, is that how it started? You're saying that she stayed with you just because you pay dinners and gifts?



AngelRho
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11 Dec 2017, 7:24 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So I was right; Angel you view dating as prostitution exhange.

I wonder, is your wife ok with that view?

Prostitution is the BUSINESS of sexual services. My wife and I have a mutually beneficial, exclusive arrangement. If that makes her my whore, then I’m just as much one as she is.


She's your wife now, but I was criticizing about your view on Dating, not on marriage or relationship.

But you surely dated your wife before she becomes your wife, is that how it started? You're saying that she stayed with you just because you pay dinners and gifts?

Our relationship was complicated back then.

She was dating one of my fraternity brothers while I was engaged to someone else. So I’d seen her around but never really considered her as a possibility or even seen myself as well n her league or her type. She and my fiancée became close friends, so we’d all hang out in the cafeteria after class. She was even supposed to be one of the bridesmaids.

I broke up with the fiancée and started dating this other girl over the summer. Things didn’t work out. Meanwhile, the bridesmaid broke up with my frat brother. The punk won’t leave her alone, so they end up back together. My girl dumps me, I’m feeling rotten, so I end up going on the prowl.

I end up getting to know the bridesmaid and another girl because we all have bad relationships in common. The other girl was ready to dump her bf and was cheating with me. We never had sex, but it was going in that direction. The bf was relieved when she came clean and broke up because he was scared of me (long story, but I had no beef with the guy). Before that, I’d talked with her about what was going on and that it was best we stop before things got REALLY bad.

The situation with Bridesmaid continued to deteriorate. She really did want to get away from bf. She just didn’t know how. We were really just enjoying the sex a little too much and avoiding getting caught. We honestly were not considering dating at that point. One night we were hanging out in the open. Not doing anything, just talking. He starts calling her every 5 minutes or less before he starts running around campus looking for her. This all happened after he flunked out of school and got booted from the frat. He finds us, which, hey, we’re not exactly hiding. Then he brings out all her stuff from his apartment and throws it at us. And then he threatens to kill me.

I won’t get into any more detail after that. Let’s just say he spent a night in jail and I ran off with his girl.

...

It’s complicated, like I said. People don’t go out with anyone unless that person has something to offer. In our case, I broke her out of the prison of the abusive relationship she was in, rallied her closest friends to make sure he stayed away, went with her to the police station when she reported him, and sat with her parents in the courtroom so we could all witness him make a fool of himself in front of the judge. The experience for her was BAD to say the least. Afterwards I had to sit with her through the panic attacks and the PTSD, calm her down after the nightmares, and all that kind of thing thing. We were on/off for some 6 years before she said I either have to marry her and give her babies or move on.

No, it’s not about dinners and gifts with us so much as it was spending time together and fighting common enemies. But we DID have that much. And of course I did take her out to dinner, movies, and things like that. Which was my whole point to start with. People won’t hang out with you or form relationships if there’s nothing in it for them. Gifts, entertainment, and meals are the easiest and most obvious ways to do that. Never punish people for being nice.